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[1545] Love

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Roamer
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Re: [1545] Love

Post by Roamer » Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:38 am

paarfi wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:35 pm
Roamer wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:08 pm
No. She needs to see herself as the angel. Ping is wonderful - but it doesn't matter how wonderful you are, without self-esteem, you'll never be able to seek out people who are worthy of you.
That's a big part of what I was trying to say. Obviously, I made a hash of it :P
Or I'm unnecessarily precise and didactic.

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Re: [1545] Love

Post by Roamer » Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:49 am

Invisigoth wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:54 pm
Roamer wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:46 pm
Invisigoth wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:22 pm
Too many are still missing Ping's point and that being that unlike a meat girl who wants to be loved Ping wants to be played with so that she can love. That makes things very complicated and just performing for pay isn't going to fulfill her needs
I don't know that I agree with the conclusion you're drawing here. Ping's statement is that she's programmed to love "anyone who plays with her and makes the right choices" - that means that this is one path to love for her, but she's not saying that her programming has locked out any other paths. We've already seen her show initiative and choice where there was no code written for a situation, so I don't think it's impossible for her to modify her routines to allow her to reach love without someone playing her.

Also, there's the question of what qualifies as 'playing' with her. Do Piro's actions when he's acting as her owner count? She urges him to play with her at at least one point, so that seems to be a no. Does it have to be romantic? Who defines romance?

I think there's room for her to manuver here, if she wants it. Clearly she wants to love - but she's protective of herself, as well. Good.
Good points

I think that also indicates that her self esteem is a lot higher than she's being given credit for as well
Oh, agreed. What's interesting about her recent actions is that since deciding to take action to 'help' Junko she's become far more decisive, strong-willed, and self-aware, the longer she's away from Piro, her 'owner'. All of that derives partially from enhanced self-esteem. To make an analogy, it's as though she were a teenager who has left home and has matured as a result.

Desiring love is still at the core of her programming. But if she continues in this fashion she may be able to temper that desperate drive with maturity and maybe even some wisdom.

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Re: [1545] Love

Post by BetaCygnus » Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:49 am

Awww… just: awww…

Thanks, Fred! =)
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Re: [1545] Love

Post by jkhartl » Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:19 pm

Taking Ping’s ear blades, eye color and possibly multi-hued hair as some kind of fashion statement or cos-play do Megumi and her grandmother know Ping is a robot? As a human her word choice is certainly strange unless it was part of the cosplay.
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Re: [1545] Love

Post by paarfi » Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:28 pm

jkhartl wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:19 pm
Taking Ping’s ear blades, eye color and possibly multi-hued hair as some kind of fashion statement or cos-play do Megumi and her grandmother know Ping is a robot? As a human her word choice is certainly strange unless it was part of the cosplay.
I think that's left deliberately ambiguous. It wouldn't surprise if they thought she was human -- Ping's words would fall to the same weirdness sensor that her earblades do. But I think the important point is that it doesn't really matter if they think she's a robot or not. They're treating her like a person, which is what she is.
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Re: [1545] Love

Post by darrin » Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:58 pm

paarfi wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:28 pm
It wouldn't surprise if they thought she was human [...]
I agree, I don't see signs (yet) that any of them have caught on to that. I'm taking grandma's last statement to be a quiet encouragement to this "poor young girl" who's stumbled on their doorstep to think about her own self-worth before succumbing to angst that she hasn't received much love (yet, at the moment, whatever).

Yay, the beginning of the interaction between Ashe and Old Man I've been waiting for!
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Re: [1545] Love

Post by darrin » Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:46 pm

darrin wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:58 pm
caught on to that
Sorry, I meant "caught on to the fact that Ping's a robot". (When I've done too many walls of text in one day I tend to overreact in the opposite direction.)
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Re: [1545] Love

Post by Voyager » Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:25 am

I'd just about bet real money that Grandma knows Ping is a sentient robot, but I'm pretty sure if I did, Grandma would find a way to end up with it, or sideline the entire discussion if that is what she felt like...

She seems like the sort of person who has seen is all, knows the reality behind it, and is perfectly willing to share it with those who ask, and equally willing to flow like water past those who don't. Sort of a Tom Bombadil.

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Re: [1545] Love

Post by darrin » Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:00 am

Voyager wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:25 am
Sort of a Tom Bombadil.
Oh excellent, ha ha.

Ping: "But... I don't even have a heart. Just software on a bunch of chips..."

Grandma: "Hm... like this?" <holds out her hand to reveal a microchip spinning on the end of her upright index finger>
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Re: [1545] Love

Post by cidjen » Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:42 pm

darrin wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:00 am
Voyager wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:25 am
Sort of a Tom Bombadil.
Oh excellent, ha ha.

Ping: "But... I don't even have a heart. Just software on a bunch of chips..."

Grandma: "Hm... like this?" <holds out her hand to reveal a microchip spinning on the end of her upright index finger>
Oh hmm, Granny No-Tails Sawatari could actually be someone who can know, just like that, that Ping is a robot ...

Now let's see...

Would that be a trait of being a Real Player? Persons like that are: Piro, Largo, Miho, Masamichi, Mugi, Kenji. Pretty much all the Real Players above certain level - 'tis why Yuki didn't know - if she's a player of couse - - -

IS THAT why Kimiko didn't know? So Kimiko either is an Inexperienced Player ? Or an AI/NPC herself?

What about Junko? She only knows because Ping told her.

So if Granny No-Tails Sawatari is a real player, this would mean, Megumi is not?

So many questions, so little answers :)

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Re: [1545] Love

Post by GouryG » Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:15 pm

I know that some are a bit uncomfortable with the current situation in regard to Ping, but I see this situation as a point where she grows as a person. Like many readers I have sort of drawn a parallel between Ping and Lt. Cmdr. Data on Star Trek. Both are sentient advanced androids whose greatest desire is to become more human. There are some who say that she is more like a child. I say she may sometimes think like a child because she is so naive about many things. Here she is at a point where she has very much gotten in a bit over her head. Her desire to be a good friend to Junko and take her place to get her out of what she perceived as a bad situation has landed a huge dilemma in her lap. She realized that she is lacking knowledge in what she is to do and she went to the Foxxhole for help. Granny Swatari gladly provided her with the information she needed and is now a bit overwhelmed by the scope of what she is getting herself into. Now is the point where she must make a serious decision of what she will do next. It is going to be a major growth point for her personality.
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Re: [1545] Love

Post by darrin » Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:38 pm

GouryG wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:15 pm
Like many readers I have sort of drawn a parallel between Ping and Lt. Cmdr. Data on Star Trek.
[...]
I say she may sometimes think like a child because she is so naive about many things.
Yep, those are points I was trying to make in the recent Thread that shall Not be Named. In fact the analogy to the specific episode I quoted might be even more apt than I originally thought: Sony no doubt views their creation much the same as Maddox (or whatever his name was) in that episode did -- a commodity to dispose of (literally in Ed's case) as they see fit. Hence the dilemma she has been dealing with since -- wow, practically the beginning of the comic, now brought to crisis levels: if nobody will "play" with her, she can't fulfill the "purpose" she was (literally) designed for, so what "value" does she have (to her creators, but of course they would hard-wire it in pretty deep that she would consider that a primary value as well)? On the other hand, if she does manage to "fulfill her purpose" (EDIT read "Sony's purpose for her" of course), does she have any value to herself? Any value as an individual? (The latter half of the dilemma goes a long way to explaining her vehemence on the subject.)
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Re: [1545] Love

Post by Tiger » Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:27 pm

Megumi is a fox that can control her appearance? That just makes me like her even more....

And Ashe <3. Even if you didn't want it, how could you resist. This is a set up

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Re: [1545] Love

Post by Rapierman » Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:26 am

Yanno, it amazes me that the humans don't catch on to Ping's outward and in-your-face android features and are about as oblivious to the "Uncanny Valley" situation.
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Re: [1545] Love

Post by Invisigoth » Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:22 am

Tiger wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:27 pm
Megumi is a fox that can control her appearance? That just makes me like her even more....

And Ashe <3. Even if you didn't want it, how could you resist. This is a set up
If Fred is not just yanking our chain about Megumi. I've known him long enough to know he could be laughing about it hysterically

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Re: [1545] Love

Post by darrin » Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:11 am

Rapierman wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:26 am
Yanno, it amazes me that the humans don't catch on to Ping's outward and in-your-face android features and are about as oblivious to the "Uncanny Valley" situation.
My working assumptions (pretty much since I had started reading the comic) were:

a) it is the same trope as in most manga about someone with special characters with extraordinary powers / characteristics, that the majority of folks around them (with a few very close exceptions) unaware of said powers / characteristics; and

b) it is implied that her design team has managed to create a simulacrum "good enough" that it does not suffer from noticeable uncanny valley effects, except under close scrutiny. (Compare with Kimiko, who took a bit longer to clue in.
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Re: [1545] Love

Post by richvh » Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:21 pm

Teddy-Werebear wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:39 pm
I wonder if Admiral Akbar speaks Japanese...
<It's a trap!>
:lol:

Is this a third party negotiator, or a surrogate for the substitution Junko...
<SUBSTITUTION-NO-JUNKO!>
:D

Sooooo... that is what, about $230?
$208 is the answer I got on one currency calculator.

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Re: [1545] Love

Post by TarsTarkas » Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:30 pm

There is the possibility, the man doesn't even see the fallen ninjas. Just like how so many other characters do not see the fantastical all around them.

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Re: [1545] Love

Post by ElvinaParsnip » Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:22 am

Question: I'm not exactly new here, but I post rarely (I know I did on the old forums, under a different user name)...

anyway...

What is the history of Ashe? Looking for links, as I don't remember her from the past. Thanks.

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Re: [1545] Love

Post by Invisigoth » Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:40 am

Ashe is one of the Sawatari cousins. She works at The Fox Hole so she hasn't been seen before this chapter.

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Re: [1545] Love

Post by Yl33 D4 N00b » Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:48 am

Ashe's debut was in #1504, so she hasn't been around long.

Ack. Ninja'd by Vis. That's what I get for rereading 50 pages.....

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Re: [1545] Love

Post by paarfi » Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:15 am

To add to what vis and yl33 said, Ashe appears to deaf, based on the sign language [1504] and the fact that we haven't heard her speak yet. She also might be a drummer (or a fan), from the Zildjian tshirt she's wearing [Zildjian].
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Re: [1545] Love

Post by Yl33 D4 N00b » Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:33 pm

I'm going to assume Ashe has excellent lip-reading skills.........

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Re: [1545] Love

Post by Rapierman » Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:16 am

Yl33 D4 N00b wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:33 pm
I'm going to assume Ashe has excellent lip-reading skills.........
Having a phone app that converts sound to text doesn't hurt, either. ;)
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Re: [1545] Love

Post by darrin » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:05 am

In 1530, Ashe is seen doing some Foxhole fetching and carrying as she often does.

But in the beginning of 1531 she responds immediately (and appropriately) to what Megumi and Ping have been saying, without any sign of a phone in her hands or (now that I look more carefully) of Megumi (or Grandma? she's admittedly out of frame for most of the last few panels but it seems an important enough point to me for Fred not to have left up to imagination) having done the polite thing of signing the conversation for her.

I'm going to continue assuming she has very strong lip reading skills. I'm also really hoping 1546 (and ff) will provide further hints about this and related details.
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