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Visual Novel [renamed]

walkingeagle
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Visual Novel [renamed]

Post by walkingeagle » Thu Sep 27, 2018 1:53 am

It's the one where she tells Piro she'll play a game with him if he gives her 300,000 dollars, then ghosts him after she gets it, but sends Ping to talk about how hard her life is instead of actual information and updates.

Obviously, this isn't about the story. This is about the visual novel, which no one will bother communicating about, so the only way I can see to actually get someone to actually listen to us is to write this here, where Fred and his staff actually DO look. I am quoting the over-a-month-long thread in the Visual Novel section. Again, I am aware this isn't the visual novel section, but no one will answer us.
What Happened to the Money?
Post by Aris » Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:10 am

So it has been long enough that I think it is fair to say that the game is not going to be delivered. I have seen several excuses speaking to VN game creating inexperience, something I find absurd given the fact that a 14 year old can create a visual novel using one of the basic apps on Steam, or illness (yet comics continue to be produced) and I just want to know where the money went. I find it unlikely that nearly 300,000 dollars went into a few drawings and screenshots equating about 1 hour of play. So what is the deal? Is there a plan to send us backers some sort of calendar or tshirt or any of the things aside from the actual visual novel that were promised? If not I think that we deserve some sort of budgeting report detailing what was spent on what. (If this has been released somewhere and I missed it I'd love someone to point me in the correct direction.)
Re: What Happened to the Money?
Post by walkingeagle » Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:02 am

I'm going to second this.

Estimated delivery on the game was 4.5 years ago. You can't just make 300,000 disappear like this, it's really messed up.

I understand that Fred's personal life has had issues. His parents are sick, his wife gets sick, he gets sick, certain staff for the project left, it took more work than everyone thought - it's all very unfortunate. And if we pledged the money to support Fred's family and/or his career and/or his tech and/or his store, all of which have been mentioned as reasons for where the money went, then this wouldn't be a problem.

But not only is there no delivery of the game at all, getting any information, whether it's updates or excuses, is like pulling teeth.

If the game isn't going to come out and you can't repay the money, just tell us. Say "thanks for the support though" and give all the backers some hand drawn art, not copies. I know it's disappointing and scary, but freaking tell us. It's extremely disrespectful and unprofessional to just leave it up in the air. Some of us paid money we had to scrimp and scavenge for, and we've looked forward to it for years, and NOTHING AT ALL has come of it.

When it's an accomplishment for one comic a week to happen, I think it can be surmised that the VN just isn't going to happen.

Someone needs to sack up and deal with this already.

EDIT: From one of the comments on the kickstarter:
"Since then, he's been up and down with goal #1 (regular comics), made some progress on goal #2 (the megagear store shipping backlog), and basically no real progress on goal #3 (the MTVN). I think the plan is still ok, and if he can get the comics rolling again and get the store backlog finished, then that should give him time to work on the VN again. But life keeps throwing poo at him, and he hasn't managed it yet.

I totally understand backers being upset. I will say that yelling at him doesn't really help things. It's not a matter of motivation; he feels bad enough about this already. It's more that he's dug himself a giant hole and most of what he tries only seems to make the hole deeper. I won't ask people to stop though. They have every right to be unhappy."
I get that life has kept 'throwing poo' at Fred, but other people who also make a living with their art deal with it. They find ways. And no, yelling at Fred won't help, but what else are we supposed to do? No one is communicating with us, no one is offering us refunds (or if they are, it's "please send in an email for a refund and basically everyone else can go fuck themselves"). No one is offering us anything.

It's really unprofessional and it's always "poor Fred, poor Fred, his life is hard and he can't face the criticism," but what about the rest of us? What about the fans that have been waiting literal years for something that's not going to happen? What about the people that supported Fred and Megatokyo?

Final edit: I want to post this quote from Nicole Trajano, also on the kickstarter comments. It's actually a mix of two of her comments for brevity's sake, and I want to just leave this here to show just how messed up this situation really is.
It's been 5 years (6th since its June) since i found out about this project. I backed $115 dollars for this.

For you it might be small money but i was a high school student that time, and i was also a foreign student. So money was pretty tight, but i begged my mom for this, thinking it will be my gift for passing university.

i wanted to clarify the exchange rate between our currency. In my country i basically spent 6k for this project. So i basically studied hard for a double scholarship in return to ease my families financial problems.

I am just ranting here. I'm sorry, and i know you guys are frustrated too.......im just worried that this project is forgotten.

I do read the updates and forums from time to time but.....i dont know where this project is heading really.

Who knows, I might be married by the time this is done, lol.......im sorry.

Its just........sad for me........and......yea, i dont know anymore.

Take care of your parents well.

My parents are also going through a lot of surgeries and health problems.

As im struggling in finally getting a permanent job, after a year of struggles....really.

Its gettiNg harder to get a job for the new generatiom, i hope my brothers will finish college smoothly and find a good job, hope they dont struggle like me.

Im sorry im ranting......Goodbye.
So this girl sends in her country's equivalent of 6k for this, worked hard to make up for that in her family, also has her parents having struggles and surgeries, and not a single thing has been said to her. And it's been two months since she posted it.

I want to ask, "doesn't Fred care? does he not feel bad about this?" except that I know some fire-putter-outer of his will come, if we're lucky enough to get a response at all, to say "of course he feels bad about it, he's inconsolable, he's so ashamed he can't face this himself," and we will be expected to, once again, say "poor Fred, poor Fred, here, take another six years' grace period."

If anyone else failed this badly to deliver and communicate, they wouldn't have gotten away with it. But somehow Fred does, and people like Nicole suffer.

It's fucked up.
Re: What Happened to the Money?
Unread post by legitalltheponies » Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:06 pm

The last official update was July of last year. There have been some forum posts and comments (even a tiny glimpse of what happened to the money), but that's it.
##mod note: this post has been renamed from the original and the thread moved to the VN section by paarfi. Please direct any complaints or concerns to paarfi or another mod.

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maldrul
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Re: A novel new theory about Miho that I don't think anyone's brought up...

Post by maldrul » Thu Sep 27, 2018 2:56 am

Answer them Mr Gallagher. You took their money, they deserve to know.
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garapagosu
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Re: A novel new theory about Miho that I don't think anyone's brought up...

Post by garapagosu » Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:35 am

I'm not a moderator, but I'm sure they will take notice and pass the message along. Perhaps we'll get a Kickstarter update email.

That said, let's keep further discussion on this issue a few threads down in the VN area, mmkay?
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walkingeagle
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Re: A novel new theory about Miho that I don't think anyone's brought up...

Post by walkingeagle » Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:17 am

garapagosu wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:35 am
I'm not a moderator, but I'm sure they will take notice and pass the message along. Perhaps we'll get a Kickstarter update email.

That said, let's keep further discussion on this issue a few threads down in the VN area, mmkay?
You may not be a mod, but you don’t HAVE to be a mod to either 1) have a toddle down to the VN section and see how posting there is useless because they only have it there to quarantine us so they don’t have to answer us OR 2) take a look at the Kickstarter updates and how the last update was July 2017, years after it was supposed to be done, and there are tons of people who have been asking for updates SINCE July 2017 and nothing. And even when there WAS a response, it was just paarfi or some other mouthpiece of Fred’s explaining that he’s having a hard time and can’t bear to attend to the questions. As though that’s an acceptable excuse.

Or you could, you know, actually read what is written in the initial post here before you give me patronizing advice and try to placate me with “they’ll do an update email” as though it hasn’t been MORE THAN A YEAR.

Mmkay?

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Re: A novel new theory about Miho that I don't think anyone's brought up...

Post by garapagosu » Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:51 am

There is a place for everything. This is not it.

We see your complaints and you've pointed to what is happening in the VN thread. I'm a backer as well, and it would be nice to get a response. I'm sure the mods will communicate this up to Fred.

At the same time, supporting a project on Kickstarter is a risk, as it says on the website. Not all investments pan out to a product you were hoping for. See Mighty No 9.

So again, thanks for the message. I'm sure your complaint will be seen and hopefully addressed in the near future.
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Re: Visual Novel [renamed]

Post by paarfi » Thu Sep 27, 2018 5:26 am

@walkingeagle
I'm sorry the VN has gone so poorly, and you have every right to be upset. Fred did provide an update as part of his rant a few months ago, which you can find here: https://megatokyo.com/strip/1526#rant1099

Deliberately posting this thread to the wrong section of the forum and with a deceptive post titles was inappropriate. Please do not do that again.

Thread moved and post titles changed.
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walkingeagle
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Re: Visual Novel [renamed]

Post by walkingeagle » Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:57 am

paarfi wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 5:26 am
@walkingeagle
I'm sorry the VN has gone so poorly, and you have every right to be upset. Fred did provide an update as part of his rant a few months ago, which you can find here: https://megatokyo.com/strip/1526#rant1099

Deliberately posting this thread to the wrong section of the forum and with a deceptive post titles was inappropriate. Please do not do that again.

Thread moved and post titles changed.
"Fred did provide an update a few months ago."

A few months ago.

As though the project hasn't had so little progress that 90% of us don't know if it's even going to happen.

You can't take three hundred thousand dollars, have nothing to show for it years after it's supposed to be finished, and then expect us to be satisfied with "Oh, Fred wrote a paragraph on it five months ago after going on about his store and the speed of his comic."

We've been waiting for-fucking-ever and all you can give us is two lines, one of which is scolding me for posting in another place - which, by the way, HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO GET SOMEONE TO ACTUALLY PAY ATTENTION TO THE PEOPLE WHO I'M PRETTY SURE HAVE BEEN PAYING FRED'S BILLS FOR THE PAST HANDFUL OF YEARS without inconveniencing your precious story forum?

The Big Man himself can't even be assed to give us those two lines either - he just sends someone to spank us for talking outside of quarantine.

Holy shit.

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Re: Visual Novel [renamed]

Post by legitalltheponies » Fri Sep 28, 2018 3:03 am

paarfi wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 5:26 am
@walkingeagle
I'm sorry the VN has gone so poorly, and you have every right to be upset. Fred did provide an update as part of his rant a few months ago, which you can find here: https://megatokyo.com/strip/1526#rant1099

Deliberately posting this thread to the wrong section of the forum and with a deceptive post titles was inappropriate. Please do not do that again.

Thread moved and post titles changed.
It was an entirely valid move since it was the only way to get a moderator to respond. The last response from a moderator or admin was in June and there have been questions that have been ignored since then.

It's been 14 months since the last update.

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Re: Visual Novel [renamed]

Post by paarfi » Fri Sep 28, 2018 7:07 am

legitalltheponies wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 3:03 am
It was an entirely valid move since it was the only way to get a moderator to respond. The last response from a moderator or admin was in June and there have been questions that have been ignored since then.
It's been 14 months since the last update.
I have been answering the questions that I can answer. I'm sorry that has not been enough.

I am also sorry that I have not posted more updates recently. Fred's rant post in May did include his plan going forward, including how that affects work on the VN. Since that post there has been little progress on the VN. I did not see much point anymore in posting progress updates where there has been little progress. I am sorry if this upsets you, but I don't plan to change that. When there is progress again, I will be sure to post another update.
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Re: Visual Novel [renamed]

Post by walkingeagle » Fri Sep 28, 2018 4:33 pm

Paarfi, it’s understood that it’s not your fault.

If you have no updates - if there are no updates - that’s how that is, I can’t expect you to spawn some out of the void. It’s extremely frustrating that there are none after so, SO much time, but that’s not on you.

The problem, at least the problem I’m having, is the lack of communication. I had to kick up a fuss in the only forum to get attention in order to make us heard. No one is keeping us updated, even if the update is that there are no updates (in which case we’d really like to know why no progress is being made).

Since we’ve mostly been ignored, surely you can understand why we think Fred has taken the money and bounced.

We feel like he took our money and support and forgot us. We feel used.

It’s unreasonable that I had to make that move in the first place. Fred should be the one answering this, by the way, since he’s the one who took the money, and it’s unreasonable that he apparently can’t be bothered.

Yes, he has a lot going on. But this is his livelihood, right? And one his fans funded a big part of for a while.

I feel like we deserve some consideration and communication.

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Re: Visual Novel [renamed]

Post by legitalltheponies » Sat Sep 29, 2018 1:10 pm

paarfi wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 7:07 am
legitalltheponies wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 3:03 am
It was an entirely valid move since it was the only way to get a moderator to respond. The last response from a moderator or admin was in June and there have been questions that have been ignored since then.
It's been 14 months since the last update.
I have been answering the questions that I can answer. I'm sorry that has not been enough.

I am also sorry that I have not posted more updates recently. Fred's rant post in May did include his plan going forward, including how that affects work on the VN. Since that post there has been little progress on the VN. I did not see much point anymore in posting progress updates where there has been little progress. I am sorry if this upsets you, but I don't plan to change that. When there is progress again, I will be sure to post another update.
I want an official update with what went wrong, Fred's strategy moving forward and a detailed report of where the money went. A paragraph in the middle of a rant isn't official and lacks detail. We also don't have a cost breakdown of where the money went and whether or not physical rewards will be shipped out. There was a forum post with an overview, but it didn't come from Fred and there weren't any hard numbers in it. Every time someone has asked about physical rewards the question has been dodged.

I also want to know how much Fred has left to draw for Part 1. If he has the story written out, he should be able to figure out when and where to plug in artwork and which drawings he wants. This is a good gauge for him of how much work he has to do, makes the task feel less insurmountable, and gives us an idea of where he is. A running tally would look really good in future updates.

If absolutely nothing else, there needs to be a roundup of the information from forum posts, rants, and comments in the kickstarter section. Right now everything is buried and it's hard to find answers to basic questions. Fred needs to explain in an update about the developer situation and why he needs a software developer when these days there is software made to put together visual novels such as VN Maker and TyranoBuilder. I'm well aware that VN Maker wasn't available when the project started, but it is now and it's relatively cheap.

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Re: Visual Novel [renamed]

Post by feelingwalnut » Sun Sep 30, 2018 11:52 am

a lurkers gotta lurk, still lurking in the shadows, still waiting.
in the meantime, knapp's books have been great at least.

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Re: Visual Novel [renamed]

Post by Zagaroth » Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:59 am

So, I'm going to speculate a little, but I think I have some insight into this sort of topic. A mod (or Fred) can correct me if they care to do so on anything I might get wrong.

1) I've gotten a bit of a feel for Fred's personality I think, and he reminds me of a friend of mine in some areas, and myself in others. If I'm right, then the more negative pressure you apply, the less results you are going to get. It's not even an entirely conscious choice, the more negativity is attached, the bigger the project feels and the more it gets procrastinated. So you're going to have to choose your approach carefully: either you can write angry posts (which, assuming you are one of the kickstarter backers, you are certainly entitled to feel), or you can try and find a way to be more gently coaxing. Your frustration is justified, but your chosen form of expressing it is likely counterproductive. Disclaimer: I wasn't following Megatokyo during the kickstarter project, I am not a backer and have no stakes in this issue, except that it looks interesting and I'd probably be willing to buy it if it came out.

2) A cost breakdown is likely a large time sink, and time costs money. He'd probably have to hire an accountant to actually pick through everything and figure out a reasonably accurate breakdown, this seems like a bad idea at this point in time. Though if he ever does get it up and running then a portion of that income going to provide said breakdown seems like it would be a good move in the PR department.

3) Questions being dodged you can pretty much assume they don't have an answer for. Which is actually kind of bad of Fred, but at the same time they probably need to get the main product out the door before they can afford to switch over to getting the physical rewards produced.

4) The information round up should probably be done by the forum moderators. I'm assuming that they are volunteers who are close to Fred, though I could be wrong, but being a mod includes volunteering to take on some responsibility. Information gathering and disseminating would be high on that list.

5) I can pretty much guarantee that if Fred were to personally learn VN maker and then spend the time to transfer all the script data and art over to it, the Megatokyo comic itself would grind to a halt for 6 months to a year. So he's going to have to hire someone who has the necessary skills to do the work, which itself is an investment of time and energy to do, and then he'll have to spend some amount of time coordinating with them to answer questions and transfer new art resources etc. I'm kind of assuming that the project is languishing with Fred occasionally putting in a little bit of time on art or script, but that his frustrations with the project mean that he's procrastinating to do what feels better and gets something easily measured done, i.e. the Megatokyo comic.

The man is in his 50s, is helping raise a young child, and probably has some depression issues which are counter productive to him getting the project done. It sucks for him, and it sucks for you the backers. I don't have any answers as to what exactly should be done, I'm just pointing out that your aggressive approach is likely to backfire.

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Re: Visual Novel [renamed]

Post by walkingeagle » Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:49 am

The man is also a businessman who has made 300k disappear. We did not donate that money. Very sad if the pressure makes him feel bad or life is mean to him, but if you take money for business reasons, your sob stories and personal insecurities no longer have a place in the equation.

We aren’t monsters. We’ve been patient. But it’s been years, and we have literally nothing to show for what we contributed. You say it would be a time sink to document stuff and make reports, but frankly, that should have been happening all along, and anyway even if it did take longer that would only mean the project takes 16 years for one chapter and not 15. No big difference.

Fred is in his 50’s, has health issues, parents, blah blah blah. So are/do many of his backers for the VN. Are their struggles somehow invalid because Fred can’t bear to face this?

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Re: Visual Novel [renamed]

Post by Concerned_user » Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:55 am

As a long time fan I am concerned and troubled over what has happened with so much money. I did not back the project cause I was out of work at the time but I was fully ready to pay for a finished game. In fact, I came back here figuring it would have been out by now and I was excited to see what it could have been, but was alarmed that nothing really has been completed.
300 thousand is a ridiculous amount of money and I am alarmed that many people around Fred don't seem to be too alarmed about this. So many excuses have been placed here and there, and silly deflections of being critical towards frustrated people by judging their tone or intent or posting in wrong threads... Its all so sad. Fred has had time to jump on the latest fads of Bowsette and laid back camp etc for new shirt designs, hes been able to work on warmth and draw all kinds of omake stuff etc, when the fact is, he should be putting all the efforts into the game. Visual novels can be made well and with little money, and he needs to man up and deliver something. Yes, something. Anything. He has to let go of the grand idea he had for it and realize he has already done more than most other comic artists could dream of in his life and he is damn lucky and privileged to have done so on the back of loyal fans. Loyal fans he has abandoned with a boat load of excuses (both legitimate and overused).
The comic being on hiatus doesn't hurt the bottom line. I doubt visitors to his site pull in staggering funds. Also people have dealt with long pauses in updates forever. He could live stream working on the VN regularly and build back a tiny bit of confidence he lost.
This whole thing is very sickening and sad, and can be remedied, but nobody knows why it isn't.

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Re: Visual Novel [renamed]

Post by legitalltheponies » Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:20 pm

Zagaroth wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:59 am
1) I've gotten a bit of a feel for Fred's personality I think, and he reminds me of a friend of mine in some areas, and myself in others. If I'm right, then the more negative pressure you apply, the less results you are going to get. It's not even an entirely conscious choice, the more negativity is attached, the bigger the project feels and the more it gets procrastinated. So you're going to have to choose your approach carefully: either you can write angry posts (which, assuming you are one of the kickstarter backers, you are certainly entitled to feel), or you can try and find a way to be more gently coaxing. Your frustration is justified, but your chosen form of expressing it is likely counterproductive. Disclaimer: I wasn't following Megatokyo during the kickstarter project, I am not a backer and have no stakes in this issue, except that it looks interesting and I'd probably be willing to buy it if it came out.
I have similar problems, but one of the things that I do to manage it is to make an outline of what needs to be done, then divide that up into doable steps. I have no idea if he has done this recently or at all. If he can't manage this, someone else close to him needs to. This would be a great way to structure updates. The other thing is his biggest source of anxiety is probably that he feels like since it's been so long since he's done an update that he needs to have something really good. This is not true, it just needs to get done so he can start updating regularly again.
2) A cost breakdown is likely a large time sink, and time costs money. He'd probably have to hire an accountant to actually pick through everything and figure out a reasonably accurate breakdown, this seems like a bad idea at this point in time. Though if he ever does get it up and running then a portion of that income going to provide said breakdown seems like it would be a good move in the PR department.
People aren't really looking for a list of every single expense. There's no need for an accountant on this. If he was organized about his spending and if he wasn't he needs to get his stuff in order anyway.
5) I can pretty much guarantee that if Fred were to personally learn VN maker and then spend the time to transfer all the script data and art over to it, the Megatokyo comic itself would grind to a halt for 6 months to a year.
This is entirely possible, but in the long run it's still easier, faster, and cheaper than getting another software developer.

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Re: Visual Novel [renamed]

Post by Zagaroth » Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:08 pm

That's a good point, and does reflect how I might be feeling in a similar situation to Fred's, which doesn't fit how the readers feel. I've had to learn to overcome that dread of giving updates when no progress has been made myself.

If Fred is reading, or if someone is passing this onto Fred: People would be happier with an update now of "I haven't made any progress in the VN yet because of X, Y, and Z, I am really sorry." or whatever rather than having no update for some number more months to finally get an update of "Hey look, I finally got this significant step done!"

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Re: Visual Novel [renamed]

Post by paarfi » Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:18 am

Zagaroth wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:08 pm
People would be happier with an update now of "I haven't made any progress in the VN yet because of X, Y, and Z, I am really sorry." or whatever rather than having no update for some number more months to finally get an update of "Hey look, I finally got this significant step done!"
I did do exactly this for quite some time, and for exactly that reason. We did talk to Fred about the need to post updates, even when the news was not good. While he understands that intellectually, actually getting him to do it is an entirely different thing. It's not that he's trying to hide anything; he'd just rather work than talk about it. This is why you hear a lot more from me than you do from Fred, despite my limitations.

I have stopped doing this recently for several reasons. One of which is that those explanations produce a kind of fatigue. To quote walkingeagle from earlier in this thread: "Fred is in his 50’s, has health issues, parents, blah blah blah.". People have good reason to be unhappy about how the VN work has gone, and it is all too easy (if rather unfair) to view the reasons for that as mere excuses, especially when those reasons keep getting repeated in updates as a seemingly never-ending series of long-term ongoing problems. If y'all are tired of it, imagine how Fred feels.

This is not to pick on walkingeagle in particular, nor is this a new problem. The same kind of thing happened when comic production slowed years ago after Jack was born and Sarah started her long and difficult fight with cancer. It's not that people didn't care that his wife was fighting for her life and Fred had to take care of both her and his little boy. They just wanted their comics.

I'm not going to wait until "yay we have the VN done" before posting an update. But I'm also done with posting monthly updates that there has been no progress. When Fred can get back on the VN work (which likely won't be real soon), I will certainly post an update and let everyone know.

Again, the fundamental problem is that the VN work has gone so poorly. I get that, and y'all have every reason to be upset about it. I'm sorry, and so is Fred.
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Re: Visual Novel [renamed]

Post by walkingeagle » Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:14 pm

Even though the reasons DO get very blah blah blah, having them is so much more preferable than the current situation.

The main reason there is such anger is that y’all have given us nothing at all for over a year officially, and nothing unofficially other than a paragraph in the middle of other paragraphs, easily missed and not much info.

It’s the feeling of being ignored, that 300k was taken and no one cares if we sit here and stew about it for years at a time, that is the biggest problem imo.

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Re: Visual Novel [renamed]

Post by Concerned_user » Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:24 pm

paarfi wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:18 am
Zagaroth wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:08 pm
This is not to pick on walkingeagle in particular, nor is this a new problem. The same kind of thing happened when comic production slowed years ago after Jack was born and Sarah started her long and difficult fight with cancer. It's not that people didn't care that his wife was fighting for her life and Fred had to take care of both her and his little boy. They just wanted their comics.

I'm not going to wait until "yay we have the VN done" before posting an update. But I'm also done with posting monthly updates that there has been no progress. When Fred can get back on the VN work (which likely won't be real soon), I will certainly post an update and let everyone know.

Again, the fundamental problem is that the VN work has gone so poorly. I get that, and y'all have every reason to be upset about it. I'm sorry, and so is Fred.
Saying the same thing happened when his son was born and his wife was battling cancer seems a bit much. It is not nearly the same situation now. That seems to be a subconscious default position to fall back on, on your part. It helps justify the position being taken. Back then he was making comics and didn't owe anyone anything. He had not solicited funds from his fans base making loads of promises, and it was obviously no questions asked acceptable to drop everything for an undetermined amount of time to look after his loved ones. Any sane person would accept this. So I think you shouldn't be so ready to toss out such an unfair comparison. You can't say Fred's situation was briefly so much better when he accepted that 300 thousand without any idea things could get tough in his personal life again, than after he got the money it was back to the tough life.

Also you can't say he prefers to work, as this is also misleading, because then he would be working on the VN which you then say is not any time soon. He has time to draw the latest fads for easy likes and attention, or devote time to conventions and other things, but not to his responsibility that is the VN?

Most likley Fred is staying away from the VN because it won't be what he had envisioned it to be. I can understand how that can kill motivation, but I also understand that it is purely a selfish stance to take 300 thousand dollars from loyal fans and still think its all about what you want and abandon responsibility. It is extremely disrespectful to his supporting fans to string them along with this idea there will be a VN "one day". If there is no set working schedule for it then it should be closed down and dropped, refunds and apologies given.

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Re: Visual Novel [renamed]

Post by walkingeagle » Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:35 pm

Concerned_user wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:24 pm
paarfi wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:18 am
Zagaroth wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:08 pm
This is not to pick on walkingeagle in particular, nor is this a new problem. The same kind of thing happened when comic production slowed years ago after Jack was born and Sarah started her long and difficult fight with cancer. It's not that people didn't care that his wife was fighting for her life and Fred had to take care of both her and his little boy. They just wanted their comics.

I'm not going to wait until "yay we have the VN done" before posting an update. But I'm also done with posting monthly updates that there has been no progress. When Fred can get back on the VN work (which likely won't be real soon), I will certainly post an update and let everyone know.

Again, the fundamental problem is that the VN work has gone so poorly. I get that, and y'all have every reason to be upset about it. I'm sorry, and so is Fred.
Saying the same thing happened when his son was born and his wife was battling cancer seems a bit much. It is not nearly the same situation now. That seems to be a subconscious default position to fall back on, on your part. It helps justify the position being taken. Back then he was making comics and didn't owe anyone anything. He had not solicited funds from his fans base making loads of promises, and it was obviously no questions asked acceptable to drop everything for an undetermined amount of time to look after his loved ones. Any sane person would accept this. So I think you shouldn't be so ready to toss out such an unfair comparison. You can't say Fred's situation was briefly so much better when he accepted that 300 thousand without any idea things could get tough in his personal life again, than after he got the money it was back to the tough life.

Also you can't say he prefers to work, as this is also misleading, because then he would be working on the VN which you then say is not any time soon. He has time to draw the latest fads for easy likes and attention, or devote time to conventions and other things, but not to his responsibility that is the VN?

Most likley Fred is staying away from the VN because it won't be what he had envisioned it to be. I can understand how that can kill motivation, but I also understand that it is purely a selfish stance to take 300 thousand dollars from loyal fans and still think its all about what you want and abandon responsibility. It is extremely disrespectful to his supporting fans to string them along with this idea there will be a VN "one day". If there is no set working schedule for it then it should be closed down and dropped, refunds and apologies given.
Trouble is, he can’t apologize and give refunds.

He’s spent the money. He doesn’t have 300k to give back.

He ignores us, doesn’t work on the VN, draws fads and memes, sends paarfi to take his flak, because he’s hoping we will all forget, take the financial loss, and not mention it anymore, quietly happy that we could fund his life for a time.

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Re: Visual Novel [renamed]

Post by cidjen » Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:55 pm

walkingeagle wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:35 pm
He ignores us, doesn’t work on the VN, draws fads and memes, sends paarfi to take his flak, because he’s hoping we will all forget, take the financial loss, and not mention it anymore, quietly happy that we could fund his life for a time.
I wouldn't think he'd even stay anywhere near online, doing anything, where the fans can always find him if THIS was the case, don't you think?
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Re: Visual Novel [renamed]

Post by walkingeagle » Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:00 pm

cidjen wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:55 pm
walkingeagle wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:35 pm
He ignores us, doesn’t work on the VN, draws fads and memes, sends paarfi to take his flak, because he’s hoping we will all forget, take the financial loss, and not mention it anymore, quietly happy that we could fund his life for a time.
I wouldn't think he'd even stay anywhere near online, doing anything, where the fans can always find him if THIS was the case, don't you think?
1. He still makes his living with the comic and the shop so it’s not like he has a lot of choice.

2. What does it matter if the fans can find him, if he does not see what they say and can send paarfi to deal with them in his place? He may look at the forums, but he likely stays in Story Discussion where it’s safe and no one is bugging him about it and everyone just wants to talk about how good the comic and its art are.

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Re: Visual Novel [renamed]

Post by paarfi » Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:29 pm

Fred does not "send" me anywhere. I answer questions here on my own hat. I'd like to think I'm helping.
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Re: Visual Novel [renamed]

Post by Concerned_user » Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:19 pm

paarfi wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:29 pm
Fred does not "send" me anywhere. I answer questions here on my own hat. I'd like to think I'm helping.
You're a really good and kind person Paarfi, but I think all the time you have put into answering questions and comments about the VN have (unintentionally) helped him avoid his responsibility.

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