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[1511] "cold water and hot lava"

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GreyWolfe
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Re: [1511] "cold water and hot lava"

Post by GreyWolfe » Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:27 am

What's easier, a shower or a bath scene?

I doubt these places have baths, outside of appropriately themed rooms of course.
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Re: [1511] "cold water and hot lava"

Post by MoneyMan » Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:32 pm

If this room has a bath, the water is going to be red.

Edit: Or there will be orange and red lighting under the surface. Either way, you're soaking in lava.

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Re: [1511] "cold water and hot lava"

Post by Ningen » Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:33 am

Yl33 D4 N00b wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:39 pm
I would assume in a love hotel, showers are made for two, right??? ;)
Bathrooms made for four (or more) in many cases.
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Re: [1511] "cold water and hot lava"

Post by Sackett » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:59 am

cidjen wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:14 am

Miho tried to prevent him from winning before (he's not going to lose, but he's not going to win either) - her story was 'pre-programmed' to do that?, but now that Piro actually saved Miho, that part of her story is being ninja (and foxgirl)-edited; IN THIS SENSE, if Miho was one of the 'bosses' too, her pre-determined purpose to 'kill' Piro has failed, so he actually 'won' something here.

Can't wait for the Ping boss battle ;)
Err... what?

I'm not sure you're following the story.

Miho was playing with Piro and Largo, expecting them to lose. Then Largo started "winning" and Miho changed her mind and decided she wanted Piro to win too. This is when she makes the comment "he's not going to lose, but he's not going to win either" and she decides to take action so that Piro can win with Kimiko.

This primarily involved her "tossing a life" because she recognized that Piro's involvement and lingering attachment to her was going to prevent him from "winning" with Kimiko.

However, due to the actions of Ping, Yuki, and Kimiko - and Piro himself (don't forget he chose to go looking for Miho too) - Miho returned to the story, leading to all the misadventures that led to this point.

Piro hasn't "won" with Miho yet, as her new story has not yet been written. We don't know the ending yet.

Furthermore it is likely that her return and re-involvement with Piro has put Piro back in the "he's not going to lose, but he's not going to win either" situation with Kimiko.

My prediction is that we get a scene change, but when we return we'll learn that Piro did not follow Kimiko into the shower. Instead he did a very nice and pragmatic thing of going and buying Kimiko some clean clothes (including panties) at the convenience story, and then returns to take his shower while she changes into her clean clothes.

Not a losing move, but not a winning one either.

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Re: [1511] "cold water and hot lava"

Post by iffy » Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:27 pm

How did Piro and Miho feel about each other in the past, during the manipulative emotional and non-physical physical-ish aspects of Moh and Pirogoeth in Endgames and the chat personas in chat. That past does seem at least somewhat an open question, given the circumstances and occurrences then and now.

Too, at least part of Endgames is not fully resolved. Things are still going on, and there are at least three people consciously aware of some of what's happening inside it. Unless it's just an unimportant tidbit or a fhredherriing. Although that would be interesting to consider Mugi as Sunay, Piro as Pirogoeth, and Miho as the child. Maybe Largo could come back as well.

Then there are the other games or things like them. In 1121 Miho was thinking she wanted the other (who we assume is Piro) to win since the first (who we assume is Largo) won. She says the other isn't going to win, but it's never been clear if she was proclaiming something that couldn't be accomplished, or something she was either going to make happen/stop from happening. She returns to the thoughts, that no he wouldn't not win, but that he wasn't going to either lose or win. A null result. Again, it's not clear if that is what is supposed to happen, or what she's going to work to stop or work to make happen. She then asks in 1122 if she's changed, but about which of those scenarios, or because she cares at all, is also not answered.

Even if what she's thinking in 1121 had been clear, there is nothing that says that couldn't have changed since then to something. It's like being unable to answer if Miho meant to return "after Ed killed her". (or even existed prior to somebody showing up, if the things Kenji said to Yuki at the CoE were essentially true) But whatever "the plans" were, Yuki followed old instructions and brought Miho back into play one way. Piro went to go apologize for something and was too late, but apparently set off another path that picks up later, perhaps in much the same way it might have if Piro had got to the Analogue Support Facility before Yuki did. So maybe Miho never meant to return, maybe she never would have even if she had meant to. It certainly seemed the story planned on bringing her back some way though. The story, her, something else, however it works. Because of who unimportant, or maybe because of nobody and nothing; we can't blame or credit either Yuki or Piro here necessarily.... And in actuality, the instructions of where to find Miho are from her in the first place.

Who is winning or losing or neither, and at what, is another thing. Given Miho's propensity to put everything in game terms, seems it might be likely she means the dating sims she apparently helped arrange. If player one is Largo that's Erika, and if player two is Piro, she probably doesn't mean herself. She's not a game, she creates stories and situations that are more real than real, she's a bit of magnetism flittering around. We could imagine she might have in the past online meant herself. Except that game already crashed. Which then this is a different game now, one apparently with Kimiko and Piro. Especially since Miho is off in another game entirely elsewhere.

Although it is instead possible Miho did mean a game with her again. That would seem easy for her to have Piro win or lose or neither. She's the real thing, stories happen at whim without any effort. Except that while she seems more than powerful enough to make any of the three results happen with herself, she hasn't bothered to do so. He doesn't seem to care enough about her, maybe no matter what she does. Plus it seems he has been more interested in Kimiko anyway. Although if even Mortal-Analogue is possible, and whatever Miho claims about pre-ordained fate about her or friends or players, none of it has happened.

Whatever 1121 and 1122 are about, the message there is incomprehensible about who and what. It is not a solidified example of what is going to happen to anyone, or how or why, or with or from who.

Beyond whatever kind of feelings those were in the past between Miho and Piro, friends, lovers, perpetrator and victim. In more recent conversations, whatever was there before, there doesn't appear much there now. The two have spent about zero time discussing being sorry that whatever it was ended. What have they discussed that was mostly related to how much they meant to each other at one time, sadness it was over, or a desire to return to it. It was not that it happened, but about why and how. And then it became about what Miho is supposed to be and rescuing her from the problems arising from being whatever she is. Apparently part is Piro trying to understand his past thoughts and behaviors, but so he can do something like redeem himself.

Maybe this cold focus on the ending parts is how these two work through their deep emotional feelings they still have and repress and everything fits into that. Then again, it could just be that regardless of the bad history there's no desire to see the other miserable; or maybe the end of 897 only reveals the lie at the start of 897. It's like wondering about the depiction of Endgames in 1216, if the only feelings in the past are where Pirogoeth looks sadly upon the corpse of Moh after she is forced to kill him. Although some of that might depend on how much the art matches the text and whose if anyone's thoughts the art reflects or not.

Also yes, to some extent Piro's recent behavior might be as non-committal and un-enthusiastic as it seems, and either way it is a bit odd. Not unreasonable, there's a lot of strange things going on in how he sees it probably. Although put into the context of 'right not easy' and a number of other things, such as his hesitance with becoming part of the creators rather than just one of the consumers. Perhaps there's only a determination to not accept anything that isn't fully honest and real and clear. Maybe he will not win or lose because he will never choose because there will always be doubt.

Please give Kimiko some credit here in 1511 about her perceptions! Kimiko of all people knows well how hesitant and unsure and unclear Piro is about so much. She appears to be as patient and understanding about how much she needs to take charge in leading him to water as she has been with so much else. There's quite a bit there for a long while. If we follow say 295 362 872 887 894 940 967 1087 1078 1115 1156 1205 1231 1400 Even in the early days, there's been something. It continues on even now.

True, it's just opinion that what Kimiko is doing now doesn't suggest she's in a rush or insulted. That she apparently is quite comfortable with how he is and how this is going. Doesn't consider the way he's acting a rejection. It's how he is, and that's fine with her. Opinion, but seems that way outwardly at least by action. Plus, that Kimiko and Piro are going this direction and this speed doesn't seem any more surprising than how how it went with Erika and Largo. Except, like with the last bathing situation being over with nothing happening, E&L has occurred and been resolved. Compared to both this bathing situation and K&P, they are still in progress and not finished and have no actual answers yet while in-flight.

Yes, of course. It might end here, perhaps depending on what he does next or not. It seems like one of the most unclear things about anything is what he might want or might be planning on doing. If he even has any idea rather than just reacting to whatever in the way it seems best. To let events flow without picking any branches. To not play the game. So there is certainly no promise that Piro will end up with her or the other or anyone when all is said and done. Yet if that's his choice then what's the problem.

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Re: [1511] "cold water and hot lava"

Post by cidjen » Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:20 pm

Sackett wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:59 am

Miho was playing with Piro and Largo, expecting them to lose. Then Largo started "winning" and Miho changed her mind and decided she wanted Piro to win too. This is when she makes the comment "he's not going to lose, but he's not going to win either" and she decides to take action so that Piro can win with Kimiko.

This primarily involved her "tossing a life" because she recognized that Piro's involvement and lingering attachment to her was going to prevent him from "winning" with Kimiko.
I remember, this was before she disappeared for 9 days, before being found by Yuki. :-Y

She 'tossed a life' for her game to continue (so that her 'not going to loose but not going to win' program/plan would continue). There could have been multiple ways she could have influenced Piro x Kimiko from 'behind the scenes', leading to the 'no-win no-lose' scenario, had she not been found, dragged out and rescued from tossing/losing a life again.

However, due to the actions of Ping, Yuki, and Kimiko - and Piro himself (don't forget he chose to go looking for Miho too) - Miho returned to the story, leading to all the misadventures that led to this point.

Piro hasn't "won" with Miho yet, as her new story has not yet been written. We don't know the ending yet.
With Miho we kinda know what the ending would have been. She would have died, again. Her dying story has no beginning (no one knows what the story is, remember) only sure thing in it is the end. But now that is going to change. It has to change - because Piro 'saved' her. He is thus freed himself from the no-win-no-lose scenario. In a sense, that is something - he will accomplish something, maybe learn something - that is always positive - he will not be left with 'zero score', even if the overall outcome is negative in the end.

Furthermore it is likely that her return and re-involvement with Piro has put Piro back in the "he's not going to lose, but he's not going to win either" situation with Kimiko.
We'll have to wait to see what the Ninja and the Fox-teen, and/or other representatives of the forces of order or chaos, think of together.

My prediction is that we get a scene change, but when we return we'll learn that Piro did not follow Kimiko into the shower. Instead he did a very nice and pragmatic thing of going and buying Kimiko some clean clothes (including panties) at the convenience story, and then returns to take his shower while she changes into her clean clothes.

Not a losing move, but not a winning one either.
That would then merely be a decoration in more than one sense then :)
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Re: [1511] "cold water and hot lava"

Post by iffy » Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:53 pm

What exactly Miho was thinking in 1121/1122, or if those plans changed or not, is a mystery.

Since she didn't, the question of if Miho would have stayed at the ASF forever will have to remain unanswered.

Likewise, we don't know yet if a Miho story can only end with her or others dying, since nobody has died. (The last time, people knew nothing, or that Miho would be at the ASF, or that something sad happened, or that Miho was off in an otherworldy place. Except Ed who expressed that he thought Miho was dead. Then he learned otherwise. This time, it appears some people believe Miho died and was carried off. But most everyone who knows any details of what's going on either knows Junpei was going to try make sure Miho wasn't removed or that Kimiko acted out a death and Piro assisted in the subterfuge.) Which is to say, that Miho and everyone else is alive is quite clear to those directly involved. So, which story and for who?

Then an entirely different matter. If Piro doesn't want finality or isn't interested in a physical relationship or doesn't trust Kimiko's current behavior to be fully her own, that's not clear. As to if he understands or follows Kimiko's invite, perhaps we'll see sometime soon. Maybe one of those answers will explain the other question.

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Re: [1511] "cold water and hot lava"

Post by cidjen » Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:26 pm

iffy wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:53 pm
What exactly Miho was thinking in 1121/1122, or if those plans changed or not, is a mystery.

Since she didn't, the question of if Miho would have stayed at the ASF forever will have to remain unanswered.

Likewise, we don't know yet if a Miho story can only end with her or others dying, since nobody has died. (The last time, people knew nothing, or that Miho would be at the ASF, or that something sad happened, or that Miho was off in an otherworldy place. Except Ed who expressed that he thought Miho was dead. Then he learned otherwise. This time, it appears some people believe Miho died and was carried off.
You mean here, most of the Horde.

But most everyone who knows any details of what's going on either knows Junpei was going to try make sure Miho wasn't removed or that Kimiko acted out a death and Piro assisted in the subterfuge.)
And here, just some of the primary cast . Piro, Largo, Kimiko, Komugiko, Megumi, Junpei, Erika, Yakugashi. They know;
Notably, Ping, Junko, Yuki, Yutaka, and Kenji, they don't know.

We don't know if Meimi may be sensing something, or if Masamichi came close enough to recognize or get footage.

IOW, much smaller number of people know where she is, than think she died.

Which is to say, that Miho and everyone else is alive is quite clear to those directly involved. So, which story and for who?
Each story to their own recipients, positively - Kimiko's acting may have been 'bad' but even Megumi believed it for a while (and Megumi, she also wanted to be an actress once upon a time - she recognized Kimiko but did not recognize the 'acting' - so what chance have the 'poor fanboys' to recognize they have been acted upon?)

Then an entirely different matter. If Piro doesn't want finality or isn't interested in a physical relationship or doesn't trust Kimiko's current behavior to be fully her own, that's not clear. As to if he understands or follows Kimiko's invite, perhaps we'll see sometime soon. Maybe one of those answers will explain the other question.
Yep, I too can't wait ;)
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Re: [1511] "cold water and hot lava"

Post by iffy » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:02 pm

cidjen wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:26 pm
You mean here, most of the Horde.
I don't know that The Horde is around, much less paying attention anywhere else. So not really.

At least, not those who were drawn by huge aberrations in the story that no longer appear present, and them being already dispersed back to their normal existences last night. Rather instead it would be those Largo and Erika were fighting, who appear to the be the same "soldiers" Miho stopped and were also being treated by Ririko that had Yuki outed to them but that they dismissed. There may be some hoardish types around, but as far as we're aware who's here are those civilians in hospital (including from the school yesterday). And those sent to stop Miho.

I meant those who are paying attention to the story, or to Miho's expected demise. If that's the same or not. Either way our audience has changed apparently.
And here, just some of the primary cast . Piro, Largo, Kimiko, Komugiko, Megumi, Junpei, Erika, Yakugashi. They know;
Notably, Ping, Junko, Yuki, Yutaka, and Kenji, they don't know.
That's why I said who knows details of what's going on. Many do not. They really have no idea one way or the other, they're not (or don't seem to be) part of either group. Ping has been taken off focusing on Miho by Junko, Junko's not paying attention, Yuki hasn't found out yet, being focused on Yukata, Yutaka is focusing on his mother, and Kenji along with the other CoE staff is the same 'who knows where' as Waltah or for that matter Ed and Dom. And a number of other player characters.

I mean all those involved who might think Miho is a danger or dead or whatever, most if not all the named ones know she's alive and "being saved".
We don't know if Meimi may be sensing something, or if Masamichi came close enough to recognize or get footage.
Masamichi is seemingly nowhere about, there was a big deal he was getting ready for yesterday. Might be here around, might not be. Meimi is as far a we know at home basking in the glow of giving good advice to her daughter. Oh, and zombie zilla magically turned into person.
IOW, much smaller number of people know where she is, than think she died.
How many people think she has died, zero, infinity, or some number in between?

I guess the point there is that anyone we know that might have thought she'd been taken out by the "forces of stability" knows she hasn't, even if they don't know where she is. Otherwise, we could consider them not involved, even if they are either thinking or concerned or unconcerned about her.
Each story to their own recipients, positively - Kimiko's acting may have been 'bad' but even Megumi believed it for a while (and Megumi, she also wanted to be an actress once upon a time - she recognized Kimiko but did not recognize the 'acting' - so what chance have the 'poor fanboys' to recognize they have been acted upon?)
Multiple stories, multiple audiences, and if we exclude primary cast who know something about Miho's most recent "death" or that Kimiko was pretending, that leaves those sent to kill her, or those who aren't paying attention. Oh, yes The Otaku.... Not sure if they have been tricked or just confused. Yeah I don't know.
Yep, I too can't wait ;)
Eh, the waiting and guessing and wondering is the fun.

Which maybe that anticipation aspect of things has an impact within Megatokyo too.

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Re: [1511] "cold water and hot lava"

Post by Ningen » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:15 pm

Sackett wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:59 am
My prediction is that we get a scene change, but when we return we'll learn that Piro did not follow Kimiko into the shower. Instead he did a very nice and pragmatic thing of going and buying Kimiko some clean clothes (including panties) at the convenience story, and then returns to take his shower while she changes into her clean clothes.
I'm not sure it's universal, but AFAIK once you leave, that's your "rest" over. OTOH, room service is extensive.
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Re: [1511] "cold water and hot lava"

Post by Roamer » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:32 pm

One final note before we all pile into 1512: Kimiko looks consistently great here. Not just the first panel, but panels 2, 5. and 8 all show nuance and vibrance and layers to her that we don't see normally. I can see why Erika says that a guys' first time with Kimi-Zilla leaves them useless for the next day...this, what we're seeing here, is a girl who knows what she wants and wants quite a bit. Not at all the quiet Kimiko Piro's used to - this, right here, is the girl who chewed out two major entertainment personalities on the air, one of them on her own show.

And I think this hidden side of her is why she and Erika can be friends. The shy and retiring type would be totally bulldozed by Erika. But someone who showed this kind of hidden depth and strength, that would intrigue Erika. She needs strong people around her, just to counterbalance her.

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Re: [1511] "cold water and hot lava"

Post by iffy » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:45 am

little spine and Kimi-zilla weren't quite about that particular topic. Apparently a somewhat different thing for that nickname, being overall dangerous and unpredictable, the opposite of nice and quiet, and destructive. From time to time now and then. Rampaging and such.

The other thing was in another context, too strong and didn't get a nickname. While it might be unpredictable, or even somewhat destructive, it's seemingly not mostly dangerous.

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Re: [1511] "cold water and hot lava"

Post by cidjen » Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:14 pm

They call this 'tsundere' I believe...( Sorry I recently brushed through the TVTropes article on Mt)
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