darrin wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 11:36 am
Wow, you guys are shitting on
Ping now too?
I am pretty done here with repeating myself about how dismissive and denigrating this line is to the characters, so this will be my last post this thread. But as bad as that was in Junko's direction, for Ping it is pretty much crossing into puppy-kicking territory.
The facts are that Junko and Ping are being a crying mess on the floor. Now they might have reasons for this, but I don't see a problem with observing that they're being super emotional right now or guessing reasons why. That's what SD is for. And yes Junko could possibly be hungry, amplifying her negative emotions. What's the problem with postulating that? That doesn't mean she doesn't have reasons for the emotions in the first place, or that hunger possibly amplifying means that they need to be dismissed.
darrin wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 11:36 am
Ping has no such luxury. Everything she knows about the world, everything she understands about people and how to act around those people, is composed entirely of what the Old Man chose to shove into her skull, and with the comparatively small addition of what she has managed to learn herself from those people around her who alternatively ignore her or patronize her. Her emotional responses to the situations she finds herself in are also completely constrained by what the Old Man decided would be appropriate responses. [snip]
This is true. She doesn't have a choice about the way she analyzes things. Poor robot has an emotional operating system
[949] This whole arc she's been jumping to unfortunate conclusions. First that Junko was planning on having sex with Dr. Gero (where did we learn his name?). In her games there's obviously the possibility that some of her clients want that, but it doesn't seem like that's how she normally wants it to go
[1175]. Next that her taking this appointment would be a favor to Junko. Even if Junko did want to go the route that Ping assumed, if she was listening at all, this is one guy that Junko likes. She definitely would NOT view Ping taking over as a good thing! Finally she assumed that Gero didn't want to play with her. I didn't see that. She acted arch towards, him, he acted arch back. He was actually making her uncomfortable by how much physical contact he was initiating.
But in lots of Manga there's characters making hugely dumb mistaken assumptions about their friends and romantic interests, in order to make for an exciting story. So obviously it makes sense to program Ping to reason like this.
darrin wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 12:45 am
The word "hysterical" by its very nature, and certainly given its origins, is intrinsically dismissive; it is essentially equivalent to calling someone "inappropriately emotional." Again, given that we don't yet know the details of what Junko thought was going on between her and the Old Man relative to what he thought was going on, we aren't yet justified in trying to gauge the appropriateness of her emotions here. Starting off by labeling her state as "hysterical" (let alone dismissing it as due to something like "hunger" completely unrelated to the events as we've seen them develop so far) is taking as an assumption the thing that's being argued.
If Junko's not hysterical, she certainly over-responding. I don't view her reaction to Ashe as appropriate at all. Ashe didn't hurt Junko. She didn't even restrain her, just temporarily arrested her dash. Never mind that Ashe is non-verbal, I don't think Junko was in a frame of mind to stop from bulling out of the building merely from someone calling to her anyway. Maybe slapping Ashe would have been reasonable given Junko's history, but I think not immediately following it up with a kick to the groin.
darrin wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 11:57 am
Teddy-Werebear wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 1:13 am
As much as I like Junko, I cannot pawn her anger at Ping being purely about Ping offering herself up to protect Junko. That is part of it, but there is more going on I think you would agree.
I don't agree, no. In the last panel Junko is
hugging Ping. The clear implication is that she was angry
on Ping's behalf. If she were angry
at Ping, especially for muscling in on Junko's "job" or whatever you were implying, that wouldn't have happened.
We can't hear what Junko was saying as she went storming out of the room, but I got a lot of a "How could you do that, I don't want to ever speak to you again," vibe. Yeah NOW she's hugging Ping, saying shut up she's supposed to be angry with her. Her emotional response is changing as she hears Ping talk. She WAS angry with her, and I think not for being selfless.
I don't know what Junko thought Ping was trying to do. I didn't know for sure either until Ping went into the Foxhole and explained. We don't know if Junko let Ping explain at all, or just started yelling at her and then tried storming out of the room. So we don't know how much Junko was aware of before the last strip or two, but she was obviously responding very negatively to Ping.