The Three-Way Conflict?

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The Three-Way Conflict?

Post by Adaon » Sat Jan 26, 2019 7:37 pm

In this thread there is another attempt at something – A series of a few more essays.

These essays discuss a couple of themes that seem to have been showing up in various ways in the main story and the light novels.

The reader should be aware that, similar to other threads of this type that have been posted in the past, there are some things in the following discussions which (if they should happen to be correct) are being DIRECTLY STATED.

Also, this discussion builds somewhat on some things that have been discussed in the previous threads of this type.

The following is respectfully submitted:


For the sake of providing overall context, it is necessary to start out this discussion by mostly repeating a few short essays that were present in one of the discussions that was in a past thread:

[1379]: "Doesn't a small beach make the ocean seem more awesome?"

Since MT is set in the "concrete jungle" of Tokyo, we don't usually see nature figure that prominently in the main MT story, though nature does show up with some significance in a couple of the omakes. In the Endgames light novels, though, there are plenty of instances where we see nature figure in a prominent manner.

The earth is very large. The land and oceans are vast. Though such instances are rare, there are times when significant natural events occur - large tornadoes, hurricanes, major blizzards, and so forth – and at those times we are hit with all of the great power and fury of nature and we are reminded just how small and powerless we are.

There was a time very long ago when there were much less people then there are today, and those people lived simpler lives, and their lives were lived rather close to nature.

That situation eventually changed, however. The human population increased. Towns and cities formed. Buildings were built. Forests were cleared away to create fields that were used for farming. In places, grass and dirt were covered over with hard surfaces, in order to make it easier for vehicles and pedestrians to travel. As time went on and on, some cities grew into very large urban areas. What was once forest or farmland was built up with buildings or paved over. Today we have gigantic expanses of mostly paved-over urban areas. As part of the process of creating these major urban areas, nature has in effect been tamed by humans, and then nature has been mostly pushed aside.

If people live very close to nature, presumably they have to worry about having to be attacked by wild animals. Early on, human beings started from primitive conditions, but over time things changed. We human beings used our intellect and we discovered things about the world, and better ways of doing things. One example of these “better ways of doing things” is agriculture, which was a more efficient method of obtaining food. Eventually life for human beings became more stable (than it had been). After that had occurred, we no longer had to spend such a great amount of our time and energy on the activities that were required to merely be able to survive. We started to have time to spend on thinking about higher things.

As the centuries passed, we continued to learn more about the world. We studied things and started to understand how they worked. We continued to learn more and more about the world that we live in - the laws of physics, biological processes, and the other mechanisms that govern how things function in our world. And we started to make things based upon this knowledge. Technology increased and kept increasing, building upon itself. We discovered much more efficient ways of doing things. And we discovered ways to do things that had been impossible for us to do before. Motors and machinery allowed us to replace the horse-and-buggy and the sailing ship with much faster methods of transportation. Electricity made it possible for communications to become near-instantaneous (as well as enabling a lot of other things). More recently, we solved the puzzle of powered flight, allowing for even faster methods of transportation. Even more recently, mechanization and computer technology have made the average employee much more productive. Now, thanks to all of the centuries of technological advances, we can do lots of significant things in an impressively efficient and effective way. We have amazing capabilities. We have looked at things at the subatomic level, and we have seen unfathomable distances out into interstellar space. Our technology and knowledge has given us incredible power. And along the way we have used this power to transform and shape the world according to our will.

A human being living in the most primitive conditions is arguably not very different than an animal in a number of ways. As compared to those primitive times, through the application of intellect we human beings have greatly improved our situation. Medical advances, and better nutrition, have increased the human lifespan. Medical advances have also made it possible to cure disease and heal injuries. Other advances have made life a lot safer and a lot easier. A primitive man living in a nearly "natural" state was subject to the limitations of what was "naturally" available. Since then, we have greatly stretched or completely broken away from those limitations. As compared to primitive man, we know a lot more about the world (e.g. the laws of physics) and we know that there is much more to the world.

Our opportunity to focus on higher things has also led to the development of new ideas. And, over time these various new ideas have also changed our lives in significant ways. I will just mention one aspect of the changes that have been brought about by these new ideas – the effect of these ideas in the realm of government. Over time, there was a switch from governments that consisted of rule by absolute despots to governments which involved arrangements where power was shared more equally between all people and the basic rights and dignity of each person were recognized. It would seem that over time there has been a general increase in empathy (and tolerance) which people show toward each other, as well.

The process of a gradual increase in knowledge and a gradual advancement of technology has been going on for a very long time, and the process continues unabated even today. And it is certainly possible that there are still many more things left for us to learn about the world that we live in. What might we as yet discover someday? Could there, say, be things that are "smaller" than the subatomic level, with their own as-yet-unknown physical laws? Could there somehow be higher dimensions of reality that we effectively have no clue about yet?



Today many of us live in large cities, surrounded by pavement, a good distance away from "untamed" nature.

But nature is still out there.

Nature is very beautiful by itself. The systems that comprise the various plants, and the bodies of animals, can be very complex. But nature itself is very simple. At a very high level, there is definitely an order to nature. But at a low level, all that you have is chaos.

In untamed nature - in the world of animals and plants - there is always a struggle for survival going on. Most significant in this regard is the constant struggle between predatory animals and their prey.

There is little intelligence in nature. Animals mostly have pretty simple brains, and they operate primarily on instinct. Seeds are spread randomly by gravity, the wind, animals, and so forth. (In untamed nature you do not usually see straight lines and orderly arrangements, which are the hallmarks of intellect and deliberate planning.) And there's really no imagination in nature, either.

In untamed nature there is very limited empathy. Predators, of course, show no mercy to their prey. Animals may be "kind" to their offspring or to members of their own clan, but that's about it. In groups of animals, there can be violent clashes for dominance. Animals will kill the young of their species in some situations.

Now, regarding human beings... Since our lives tend to be relatively easy and we do not usually have to struggle to survive, many of us have little experience with anything related to a struggle for survival. If someone put us out deep in the untamed wilderness, where the availability of food is questionable and there are plenty of wild animals, a lot of us might not be able to even survive.

People of course can go camping in relative safety. If you dwell on a campground for an extended period of time, though, you tend to be subject to certain limitations.

The fact of the matter is, a lot of the "higher" aspects of our human civilization rely on four sturdy walls and a roof to even be possible. All the printed matter and electronic devices that we are so fond of do not tend to fare so well if they are exposed to the elements.

Our human world was basically created by taming and overcoming nature, and so our human world is largely incompatible with untamed nature.

Expanses of concrete preclude things from growing, and fences usually keep out wild animals. Even in the cities, though, we do allow some nature to be nearby us - such as grass, trees, and flowers. However, even these rather benign aspects of nature have to be constantly tamed. Grass has to be cut, trees can start growing up in the most inconvenient places, and creatures like moles, field mice, and insects can invade our territory. Out in the more rural areas, there are more problems with animals, and, furthermore, any fields that are used for agriculture have to be defended against invasion by undesirable plants.

If human beings end up abandoning an area for some reason, nature will eventually take over that area again. Paved roads eventually crack and break up, and plants start growing in the cracks. Structures are soon overtaken by trees and vines, and, due to the effects of both the plants and the elements, the structures are then gradually reduced to rubble.

If it is the case that untamed nature is incompatible with our human world, then it is also the case that the parts of the world that have been tamed and transformed by humans are largely incompatible with nature. Paved areas do not provide any plants for cattle or deer to graze on. Insects and spiders may find their way into a house, but it is often the case that there is nothing in the house that they can eat.


Now for some aspects of this theme that have mostly just been showing up in the light novels:

In the Endgames world, we see that it is usually the case that there are plenty of wars going on. Wars can simply be conflicts over what group of people is going to be in control of a particular region, or they can be existential conflicts between two groups who simply cannot get along because their ways of looking at the world are so different that they cannot successfully co-exist.

It seems to be implied that there are two basic types of people groups in the Endgames world. One type is a type of people that I will call the "untamed" people. This type of people seems to live very close to nature. Perhaps we could say that they are “still” living close to nature. It seems to be further implied that one aspect of the fact that these people are “close to nature” is that these people are rather animal-like in their behavior. Specifically, they can be very aggressive and brutal and they do not necessarily treat each other well - the strong will brutally take advantage of the weak, for instance. This type of people apparently focuses on the things that they can actually see, and their thoughts do not go much beyond that.

The second type of people I will call the "civilized" people. These people are aware of "higher" things. They have technology that is significantly greater than that of the "untamed" people. And, thanks to their "higher" ideas, they have an overall greater level of empathy for each other. While it is true that history is filled with myriad examples of how badly “civilized” people can treat each other… still, the implication here would seem to be that, on average, these “civilized” people tend to treat each other much better than the “untamed” people tend to treat each other.

The "civilized" people would tend to transform their world and to tame nature, and so I guess it could be said that they would not be living in “harmony” with nature. Conversely, the “untamed” people would tend to not transform their world very much, and so they would largely be living in “harmony” with nature.

"Civilized" people want to be treated well, and so they would tend to not want to be around "untamed" people who cannot be counted on to treat them well. The value systems of the two groups are so radically different that the two groups cannot get along with each other.

We don’t really see the “untamed” people show up very much at all in the Endgames novels, but it seems to be implied that, in the Endgames world, there have, within living memory, been wars - existential conflicts - between groups of "civilized" and "untamed" people.

While it is the case that these wars are in the past, the legacy of these wars is still having an effect on the "chimeras", which are technically human beings but who also have some animal-like features. (One of the most notable of these chimeras is of course Sunay, the fox-girl.)

There seem to be two types of chimeras. One type is what I will call the "artificial" chimeras, and these chimeras are people who were born with animal features because of the effect of a curse that a mage cast on their parents. The mages who are responsible for the creation of these chimeras got the inspiration for their “artificial” chimeras from the other type of chimeras…

The other type of chimeras is what I will call the "natural" chimeras. The "natural" chimeras seem to be associated with the "untamed" people. The "natural" chimeras seem to somehow be the offspring of a human woman and an animal spirit. It makes sense that the "natural" chimeras would be associated with the "untamed" people, because the "civilized" people have transformed their world and tamed nature and so they are no longer living in "harmony" with nature. The "untamed" people still live in enough harmony with nature that they are able to get significantly close to an animal spirit.

In the Endgames world, it seems to be the case that there are some groups of "civilized" people (such as the people of the country of Avalon) that have a visceral, unthinking hatred of chimeras. It would seem that this hatred does not spring from the fact that many of the Avalonian chimeras are associated with acts of infidelity, but rather the hatred is simply due to the fact that they are chimeras. I am guessing that this significant hatred is due to the lingering memory of the fact that, during the past wars (existential conflicts) between the "civilized" people and the "untamed" people, the chimeras were the powerful, superhuman warriors of the "untamed" people, and therefore the chimeras did a lot of damage to those who were fighting against them. So, it would make perfect sense that the "civilized" people, who did end up being victorious in the conflict, would now want to destroy chimeras on sight.

This history unfortunately causes significant problems for a large number of "artificial" chimeras who were born in the country of Avalon. Even though they are completely innocent of causing anyone any harm, they are still significantly hated by some parts of Avalonian society.

We seem to also see a similar situation in the mainline MT world, where it is the case that the kitsune have to put up with some prejudice from the humans. Whether or not it is the case that this prejudice stems from the same source, we cannot know for sure.



[639]: "Path to enlightenment can make enlightened ones complex and misunderstood, head ninja."

What is "enlightenment"? Obtaining a lot of knowledge and wisdom? Understanding the nature of things and of the world around us? Understanding the way that things truly are?

It was previously discussed how, due to intellect and learning about the world, humanity gradually increased our level of technological development and improved the quality of our lives. We discovered that there was more to the world than we had previously known. There were also lots of changes to our ideas and to the way in which we think. Basically, it could be said that during this gradual process of change and improvement, humanity became more "enlightened".

Our process of learning about the world, and the resulting technological advancement, has continued uninterrupted now for a long time. The power and effectiveness that our technology has given us are amazing. This power continues to increase.

How much more is there yet for us to learn? Will we keep learning more and more and gaining more and more world-shaping power?

Is there a limit to how far we can go? To how far we SHOULD go?

The more that we learn, the more that we understand things, and the closer we get to understanding the "fundamental" nature of things. When you understand something to a great enough degree, you can start to desire to want to change that thing. However, the process of doing such a thing (and the process of experimentation in general) is a messy process, requiring numerous experiments and a significant number of mistakes. The closer that you get to playing with the fundamental nature of things... the more power you are playing with, and the greater the potential impact of the changes that you are trying to make. Also, since you are playing around with very powerful things, the potential impact of the "mistakes" that you will inevitably make is greater. If you play with great power, a "mistake" could end up having a significant and wide-ranging negative impact...

Also... it could be argued that the more knowledge and power that humanity gains, the closer that humanity approaches to the level of the divine (as far as knowledge and power goes, at least). It could be argued that changing the fundamental nature of things is properly the province of the divine. Would human beings even be able to handle that level of power? Would we even be allowed to reach the level of power that it would take to cross those boundaries? Or, perhaps we would actually be allowed to do such a thing, but there would be significant negative consequences from the attempt...


[1376]: "Initially there were reports of a secret nuclear test gone horribly wrong."

Like it or not, in our real world, humanity has been starting to play around with the fundamental aspects of things. It can probably be said that the time that we really started to do this was the beginning of the nuclear age, with the splitting of the atom and the creation of nuclear weapons. Perhaps we have now opened Pandora's box...

Along with nuclear technology has come a curse, of sorts. Nuclear technology results in the creation of highly radioactive materials, which have to be isolated and contained and which stay dangerous for centuries. If our present-day nuclear weapons should ever be used, they could corrupt and render uninhabitable significant areas of land.

Humanity now has available to itself the tremendous power of nuclear weapons... but now we all have to live with the small constant nagging worry of what would happen if those weapons were ever used against us. It could certainly be argued that it would be better for the human race if nuclear technology had never been developed at all.

As was stated before, when you meddle with the fundamental nature of things, you are entering into an area of great power. Those who would play around with powerful forces should consider the potential impact that their actions could have on others.

In our real world, there are a number of other areas in which people are currently playing around with the fundamental nature of things. For example, artificial intelligence and genetic engineering/cloning are two significant areas in which research is occurring. Major developments in just these areas could have the potential to alter the nature of human existence in incredibly significant ways - ways that could be extremely unpredictable. The results could even be that human existence itself could somehow be so warped or disrupted that it would be impossible for humans to continue to exist. But, regardless of what might happen, it seems that people insist on continuing to work on such things...


I think that, wrapped up in the things that have been previously discussed, is an important concept which can be called...


Basically, all knowledge can be used for good or for evil. One can basically assume that it is axiomatic that any knowledge that can be abused (used for evil) eventually WILL be abused. Some people will be hurt by the evil that the knowledge will be used for. Society will have to deal with the consequences of these evil actions.

One possible definition of "Forbidden Knowledge" is knowledge for which the overall negative consequences to society outweigh the overall positive consequences.

Another possible definition is knowledge that a mortal human should not possess (because it gives them more power than they should have) or knowledge that is properly only the province of the divine.

The entry of "forbidden knowledge" into a society would result in a form of evil coming into the society which was not present there before.

Once a society acquires "Forbidden Knowledge" then they have to live with the consequences of that knowledge forever after.

(The one possible alternative to this is for the society to take the difficult and extremely drastic actions that would be necessary in order to make it so the entire society would effectively "forget" the knowledge that they had previously learned.)

I'm not an expert on these things, but... thinking back in history a good distance before the atomic age, what were some forms of "forbidden knowledge" that people supposedly pursued? Let's see...

Well, there was immortality… Creating artificial life... Alchemy/turning lead into gold... Seeking to contact the dead... and so forth…

I think that it was often the case that people pursued such things for the purpose of gaining power for themselves. And such things would give a person very great power.

Really, even seeking such knowledge is a pretty arrogant and irreverent act.


There is another area in which one could question whether our more recent forms of "enlightenment" are an entirely positive development.

A lot of our social interaction is done on-line now. But on-line communication is significantly different than face-to-face communication. When someone hides behind an avatar they can be blunt, they can be rude, they can be inconsiderate. When people are not interacting face to face but instead interacting remotely, they can start to represent themselves as something besides what they actually are - they can become artificial.

The amazing, exciting virtual worlds that we have today entice us and draw a lot of our time and energy away from the real world. Any social interaction that occurs by means of these virtual worlds is a less personal type of interaction.

All these on-line activities tend to make us more isolated from each other, and start to decrease our empathy for other people.

Heck, when even Junko's father is starting to complain about what is generally going on ([1160]), you know that things are getting pretty bad...

If someone were to somehow, relatively quickly, achieve a significant jump in their level of "enlightenment" - if they ended up knowing a LOT more about the world than all of the people around them knew - then the way that they think might be significantly changed, and they might have a hard time relating to the world in the same way that they used to. They also might have a harder time relating to the people around them than they used to. Such a situation would tend to decrease their empathy toward other people. And, a worse possibility that might occur is that the "enlightened" person would start looking down on the other "unenlightened" people around them, and that perhaps the person would even start to think that they had much more inherent value than those “unenlightened” other people had. That would result in a further decrease in empathy...

Civilization requires that people obey a certain set of rules, and that they place limits on their own behavior...

People who would tend to seek "forbidden knowledge" would tend to be the aggressive or irreverent types. If they did not have enough respect to (as most people would) forego the seeking of the forbidden knowledge, would they tend to have respect for other people after they had obtained forbidden knowledge? Unfortunately it would likely be the case that the people most likely to obtain forbidden knowledge would be the people that one would least desire to possess that knowledge...

Now… Let us assume that, somewhere within the mainline MT world, there are some people who have been playing around with forces beyond their control and who therefore have acquired an amount of “forbidden knowledge”, which has led them to attaining a higher level of “enlightenment”. Let us assume that this “forbidden knowledge” has given these people some capabilities that far exceed the capabilities of “normal” human beings. People such as this may have already lacked empathy, but regardless, as a result of their “enlightenment” their outlook has been significantly changed and their empathy has been decreased.

What would be a term that we could use to refer to such people? For the sake of this discussion, let us refer to these people as the “accelerated” people.

Referring back to the previous discussion about “civilized” and “untamed” people... Human civilization usually doesn't think too much about pushing aside untamed nature to transform an area according to its will, for its own purposes. And "civilized" people would tend to look down on "untamed" people somewhat. Due to their significantly different outlooks, the two groups would tend to become opposed to one another. The two groups would probably not even be able to co-exist peacefully together. The tension between the two groups might end up escalating into an existential struggle.

If the relationship between those two groups is as has been described, then it is possible that there would tend to be a similar relationship between the “accelerated” people and the “civilized” people. The “accelerated” people would think of the “civilized” people as simpletons and as people who were beneath them, and the “accelerated” people would think nothing of negatively impacting the “civilized” people in the course of pursuing their own interests. If the “civilized” people were to become aware of the existence of the “accelerated” people, the “civilized” people would disdain the “accelerated” people for carelessly dabbling in perilous things and risking causing changes to the fundamental nature of the world.



How the Cave of Evil fits into all of this is probably significant.

(Yes, the Cave of Evil is currently in a “destroyed” state at the moment, but for the sake of convenience let us talk about the Cave of Evil as it was earlier in the story, say around the time period of Chapter 8. Present tense will be used for the sake of convenience.)

What do we know about the Cave of Evil? We know that it is a dance club in Harajuku. It has a goth theme, and it appears that the regular visitors dress in goth clothing.

It appears that the Cave of Evil is the gathering place for the people who comprise Miho’s “horde”. I am guessing that there are periodically scheduled times when Miho is present at the Cave and at those times the horde gathers there in order to experience Miho’s Story. Apparently Miho’s Story is a very intense thing to experience.

We know that Miho has her own room at the Cave of Evil and that she is treated like a Very Important Person there.

Now, to go any farther beyond what has just been stated, it is necessary to start speculating somewhat.

I’m going to go out on a limb and speculate that the Cave of Evil usually does not open for business until sundown, and also that it is the case that inside the Cave of Evil (in the public areas, at least) it is always fairly dark.

The Cave of Evil is fundamentally a place of fun, and therefore it is a place of fantasy. Since fantasy has a dark side, in that sense, then, the Cave of Evil is a place of darkness. However, the staff members that we are familiar with seem like nice enough people. The Cave would probably be harmless enough (most of the time, at least) to a person who was simply a casual attendee. I speculate, though, that what is going on at the Cave of Evil is more complicated than just “ordinary” dance club activities or activities that are related to Miho.

In a few places in the comic (including [1032] and [1089]), we see the Cave of Evil people mentioning a group that they refer to as “The Dead”. Let me make a strong assumption here, and speculate that when the Cave of Evil people are talking about “The Dead” they are not talking about the members of Miho’s horde, but they are instead talking about some other group of beings, and… it is the case that the Cave of Evil is a dwelling place for ghosts!

Ghosts have been prominently mentioned in the Endgames omake ([1428]), but other than that they haven’t really shown up in the main story yet, and also they have only rarely made an appearance in the light novels.

It has been previously theorized that ghosts are what remains of mortal human beings who, upon reaching the end of their mortal lives, somehow (through a strong will or through some other means) managed to avoid passing on out of the mortal realm to wherever else they were supposed to go, and instead remained present in the mortal realm. (The choice to do such a thing defies the natural order of things, and so is a rebellious act.) However, in doing this they were still unable to prevent the death of their physical bodies, and so they now exist as disembodied spirits.

Disembodied spirits are pretty limited in what they are able to do, but presumably a ghost would desire desperately to return to life in the mortal realm, and the ghost would be willing to do whatever it takes to make such a thing happen for themselves, if an opportunity to make such a thing happen ever presented itself.

Ghosts are disembodied spirits that presumably have no physical component, and some time ago in the past it was speculated that ghosts primarily existed in areas of multi-dimensional space where they could not usually be seen from the perspective of the mortal realm. As was discussed in the previous thread, the Void seems to tend to be associated with Chaos and rebellion, and so I am going to assume that the place where the ghosts usually exist is actually the Void.

Now, if ghosts happen to be existing as disembodied spirits somewhere in the area of the mortal realm, then they have already (to some degree) transcended normal human experience. Speculating wildly… What if ghosts sometimes encounter other ghosts and sometimes the ghosts choose to try and help each other out? What if... over the centuries, the ghosts end up learning a lot about the Void, as well as a lot of other things about the world around them that they had never known before?

I don’t know what all of the capabilities of ghosts might be, but, at the minimum, I assume that ghosts have certain types of knowledge related to the Void, and that many of the ghosts may have a lot of various knowledge and experience due to the fact that they have existed for a period of time that is much longer than the length of an ordinary human lifetime.

Since we are speculating that there are ghosts dwelling in the Cave of Evil, let us assume that there is some ongoing interaction between the ghosts and some of the humans that frequent the Cave of Evil. Let us assume that as a result of this interaction, some of the leaders and more prominent members among the people who frequent the Cave of Evil have been given the opportunity to learn the “forbidden knowledge” of how to access and use the Void, and so those people can now use that knowledge to do things that are significantly beyond the capabilities of ordinary humans. But this knowledge has come with a price, because in order to obtain that knowledge, they have had to provide assistance to the ghosts, helping to work toward the achievement of the ghosts’ aims. And the ghosts, of course, desperately desire to somehow return to life in the mortal realm, even if such a thing would be accomplished at the expense of other people…

And so, human beings have been consorting with ghosts…



As discussed before, it is being theorized that in the MT world, there exist three basic types of people – the “civilized” people, the “untamed” people, and the “accelerated” people.

As far as the “untamed” people are concerned, probably the closest thing to the “untamed” people that we are going to see in the mainline MT world is the kitsune. After all, how can you get closer to nature than actually being a fox? I am going to assume that, in their overall outlook and behavior, the kitsune fundamentally fit the description that I have previously given for the “untamed” people, and so we can consider them to be “untamed” people for the sake of this discussion.

It was previously theorized that the “accelerated” people would tend to become opposed to the “civilized” people.

But what would the relationship tend to be between the “accelerated” people and the “untamed” people? Both of them would presumably tend to be in opposition to the “civilized” people. Would these two groups tend to become allied, or would they tend to end up in opposition to each other, as well?

Apparently it is the case that kitsune with multiple tails have multiple spines, and so they have the ability to "distort space" and to do other types of significant things...

In other words, those kitsune are capable of performing effects that violate the laws of physics (or other physical laws). So they are capable of performing supernatural effects.

I am going to guess that the "accelerated" people and the "untamed" people will tend to become opposed to each other, as well.

After all, if the "accelerated" people look down on the "civilized" people, how much more would they look down on the "untamed" people?

The kitsune may be capable of supernatural effects, but the "accelerated" people are also capable of supernatural effects, and so the kitsune really have nothing that the “accelerated" people need. Also, it would apparently be actually possible for the kitsune to use their supernatural powers to attempt to oppose the activities of the “accelerated” people. So the kitsune could potentially become a nuisance to the “accelerated” people, or even a threat. Furthermore, presumably the outlook and activities of the “accelerated” people would be particularly odious from the perspective of the typical kitsune.

As has been stated elsewhere (in a previous thread), based on what we see in [1490], indications are that human civilization has had some influence on the kitsune, and that the kitsune are treating each other a bit nicer than they did at some time in the past. But still, it would appear that the kitsune as a whole still don’t treat each other as nice as human beings tend to treat each other.

Apparently some kitsune (likely a fairly small number) have chosen to essentially embrace human civilization and to try to live among the humans.

Komugiko is one of the kitsune who have made the choice to do that. Presumably Komugiko is a rather atypical kitsune.

As has been stated elsewhere, it appears that Komugiko has been completely disowned by her mother. Let us assume that Komugiko's mother and grandmother are both "traditionalists" in their own way.

Again, I speculate that Komugiko’s “offense” against her family was that she went significantly against the values of her family. Komugiko embraced “science” and abstract thinking, which are ideas that presumably conflict with the normal values and outlook of the kitsune. And, in addition to that, Komugiko also has been choosing to consort with the “accelerated” people that gather at the Cave of Evil. So, apparently something in all that has been enough to make Komugiko’s mother significantly angry.


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Re: The Three-Way Conflict?

Post by darrin » Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:52 pm

Adaon wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 7:37 pm
Again, I speculate that Komugiko’s “offense” against her family was that she went significantly against the values of her family. Komugiko embraced “science” and abstract thinking, which are ideas that presumably conflict with the normal values and outlook of the kitsune. And, in addition to that, Komugiko also has been choosing to consort with the “accelerated” people that gather at the Cave of Evil. So, apparently something in all that has been enough to make Komugiko’s mother significantly angry.
From the brief hints in 1490, and even rarer and vaguer hints prior to that, I had been assuming that the progression was something like "Komugiko 'fools around' without settling on something monogamous -> guys get jealous of each other -> conflicts arise -> undue attention is drawn to the (presumably secretive by nature) kitsune clan".

I had not connected this at all with a "science" aspect; I had been so distracted by her general resentment of Largo's presence when he came to sub in her classroom [1366] that I didn't clue in to her specific resentment at his "you're incapable of science" jibes. That's an interesting point you raise, thanks.
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Re: The Three-Way Conflict?

Post by Invisigoth » Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:58 pm

I personally suspect that Mugi's offense begins with her having but a single tail, possibly combine that with "giving away" a commodity that her clan trafficked in may have been the next on the list of marks against her and it doesn't take long before she's outcast.

Addendum: Carrying Yaku to term and having her be a twintail may have been the only thing that got her back in the good graces of Grandmother eight tail....

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