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[1543] value

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darrin
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Re: [1543] value

Post by darrin » Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:10 pm

Invisigoth wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:38 pm
eomdal wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:21 am
Invisigoth wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:13 am
So far all signs point to her being a mundane cousin [...]
Megumi's [...] kitsune characteristics
there's no indication that Megumi is hiding tails nor that she ever had any tails to be noticed by her family

So, unless she was able to conceal this by conscious effort from the womb then she's not a kitsune, just a cousin
Indeed, my main question at this point is, are there any actual characteristics that need explaining? (The "hint" in 1543 is tempting, but I can't be sure it's not just one of the random things in an obviously cluttered office / storage room.) Much has been made of the bow tie that "emotes like fox ears", but there's not much independent evidence yet where that lies on the spectrum from "important clue" to "Fred herring put in because it's indescribably cute".

In particular, if paarfi is right about her relationship to the rest of the kitsune family:
paarfi wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:08 pm
So I suppose that means the family link between Mugi and Megumi is that their fathers are brothers. Or maybe Mugi and Megumi aren't first cousins. Assumign they are, hat seems to make Mugi's grandma and Megumi's grandma not related at all, which seems a bit odd with Megumi's grandma working at the Foxhole.
...then Megumi's only relation to Mugi is through their (mundane) fathers, and Megumi would have no kitsune in her at all.

I'm starting to think I was wrong in previous threads to refer to "the Sawatari shrine", or think of this place as "the Sawatari love hotel." In the model paarfi's describing, Sawatari is not the name of the kitsune clan (of 1490), just the name of two mundane brothers who happened to get very lucky (in various senses :oops:).

Why is Megumi's (mundane) maternal grandmother running the Foxhole? After all, her connection should be even more tenuous than Megumi's: her son-in-law's brother married into the clan. This next is pure speculation on my part, but I'm trying to come up with something that explains both grandma's comment in the last panel, and what Megumi says in the first couple of panels of 1503. (Kimiko says "I didn't know your grand--" possibly intending to say "--mother owned this place"; that would make Megumi's "Cousins." interruption to mean "No, she doesn't, it's my Cousins' (presumably Mugi's kitsune cousins).")

Megumi in 1503 mentions a brothel in Kitami. Imagine a young Megumi's grandma employed in that or some other such facility owned by the clan. One day, as is one of the risks of such employment, she finds herself in an "embarrassing position" as they used to call it. The clan helps her though (kitsune loyalty? sympathy from fellow members of the profession, given it's not the first time something like that would happen?), and the child (Megumi's mother) is raised, eventually growing up to catch the eye of "one of those no-good Sawatari boys" (ok I totally made that last bit up :lol:). Megumi's grandmother. for her part, has continued to repay loyalty with loyalty, eventually working her way up from the oldest profession to the second oldest: management. So she doesn't "own" the foxhole, she just runs it. (Mostly left to her own devices it would seem, since 1490-91 seem to imply great-grandma kitsune has better things to worry about, while Megumi states in 1503 that the kitsune clan more or less regard the Foxhole as a "joke", i.e. not just in name.)
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maldrul
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Re: [1543] value

Post by maldrul » Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:48 pm

Invisigoth wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:38 pm
there's no indication that Megumi is hiding tails nor that she ever had any tails to be noticed by her family
There is equally no indication that she isn't or that her family isn't already aware that she does. A kitsune wouldn't necessarily hide their tails from their kitsune family. They might wish to hide their kitsuneness from humans (or ninja) however.
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maldrul
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Re: [1543] value

Post by maldrul » Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:55 pm

darrin wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:10 pm
...then Megumi's only relation to Mugi is through their (mundane) fathers, and Megumi would have no kitsune in her at all.
Unless both brothers married the prospective (related?) women, then the fact that Megumi and Mugi have the same surname would indicate that they received that surname from their mothers, which would mean that Sawatari *is* the kitsune clan name.
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Re: [1543] value

Post by darrin » Fri Dec 14, 2018 4:42 pm

maldrul wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:55 pm
Unless both brothers married the prospective (related?) women, then the fact that Megumi and Mugi have the same surname would indicate that they received that surname from their mothers, which would mean that Sawatari *is* the kitsune clan name.
As I said, I was following the logic conditional on the speculation that they are related through their fathers. I'm not claiming that any alternatives have been definitively ruled out yet.

That being said... if Megumi is a kitsune, then her valued mother mentioned in the last panel must also be, and thus Megumi's grandmother here (thus revealed as her maternal grandmother) must be as well. That would mean Megumi and her grandmother are hiding it, while (for example) Ashe and, more obviously, Mugi are not. (Komugiko-sensei doesn't even hide it at school; why would, say, an Anna Miller's waitress have more of a need to hide it?)

Unless the idea that "kitsuneity" is only passed along the maternal line is also only forum speculation, not reflective of what Fred's actually doing? If a male ktisune can have a kitsune daughter from a mundane human female then yeah, all bets are off. (I.e. my reasoning may be producing crap results here, but that's because I don't think I have very reliable priors to begin with.)

EDIT:
Hmm, looks like I glossed right over something directly relevant here:
piro wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:09 am
If you want WoG on this, sorry if it got a little mangled in the background info, but Great Grandma Sawatari is currently an 8 tail
So WoF agrees with maldrul's comment above, "Sawatari is the kitsune clan name".

Could Mugi's (kitsune) mother be the sister of Megumi's (presumably male kitsune) father?

It's not too far off from the model ("their fathers are brothers") paarfi mentioned early on in the thread (and had been speculated about in previous threads, which I don't have currently the strength to dig through looking for, sorry). If Mugi gets her surname from her mother (either because matrilineal is how the clan rolls, or maybe he ran off like Yaku's dad did?), but Megumi gets hers from her father, then the common surname is pretty straightforward. Megumi's maternal grandmother is unrelated (by blood) to the clan, her backstory could still be similar to what I speculated above; so her lack of fox characteristics would still not need explaining. Megumi on the other hand either has no such characteristics (if kitsune characteristics only come from the mother) or has hidden ones yet to be revealed (if they can come from male kitsune).
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maldrul
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Re: [1543] value

Post by maldrul » Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:17 pm

darrin wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 4:42 pm
That being said... if Megumi is a kitsune, then her valued mother mentioned in the last panel must also be, and thus Megumi's grandmother here (thus revealed as her maternal grandmother) must be as well. That would mean Megumi and her grandmother are hiding it, while (for example) Ashe and, more obviously, Mugi are not. (Komugiko-sensei doesn't even hide it at school; why would, say, an Anna Miller's waitress have more of a need to hide it?)
There seems to be an implied dislike for kitsune (they *are* monsters after all) among the general population. Regardless, Mugi, Ashe, and Yaku do not have the requisite number of tails to be able to hide them. Yaku's attempts to physically hide her ears and tails is telling as to how she may have been perceived by her classmates.

Megumi seemed very upset with her cousin's promiscuity, so I'm also speculating that maybe her mother had instilled in Megumi a more Victorian attitude as a defense mechanism to help hide in plain sight.
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Re: [1543] value

Post by Invisigoth » Sat Dec 15, 2018 10:50 am

I think that Megu's harsh criticism of Mugi's sexual antics falls into the realm of the pot calling the kettle black. Even so, there's a possibility that Mugi has done things that go beyond Megu's hard limits and that could be the cause. Perhaps something as simple as failing to get contact information from partners. At the hospital we did see Megu seemingly asking Mugi to "share" Junpei after all

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Re: [1543] value

Post by Yl33 D4 N00b » Sat Dec 15, 2018 7:31 pm

Yaku's poppa has never been I'Ded......

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Re: [1543] value

Post by Rapierman » Sat Dec 15, 2018 11:32 pm

paarfi wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:54 am

But Ping has always had the ability to do sexual stuff, even though she's a non-H model: "that part belongs to me. It's not part of any game." [1175].
So why would there be no programming / information left avaiable by the programmers for Ping to access? My guess is that they programmed Ping to say that just to keep it naturally occurring and not let the user know that she wasn't built that way.
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Re: [1543] value

Post by Teddy-Werebear » Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:47 am

Is Ping flesh and blood with ear blades and implanted circuitry? A vat grown body for commercial sale.
Is she like a Boomer or Terminator with a flesh outer skin? It would explain her ability to toss Gameru and swing telephone poles.
Is she completely synthetic from top to bottom? Like an autonomous real doll.

Megumi John blocking is preventing this from being ascertained definitively.

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