[1532] The battlefield before me
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- Old_Gray_One
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Re: [1532] The battlefield before me
I think that the Old Man is the one who opened up the giant container of ass-whuppage on the ninjas.
Think about it - He's sitting there, drinking his coffee, while there is a giant battle going on? That would make him either a) Already dead b) In a coma or c) the one who delivered the ass-whupping. Since a) and b) are both disproved by the coffee drinking, the answer must be c).
Think about it - He's sitting there, drinking his coffee, while there is a giant battle going on? That would make him either a) Already dead b) In a coma or c) the one who delivered the ass-whupping. Since a) and b) are both disproved by the coffee drinking, the answer must be c).
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Re: [1532] The battlefield before me
Or d) so absorbed in his own selfish world that he is blind to the parts of Megatokyo that are "unusual" to him.
I think Stranger Danger is a pantsu collector.
I think Stranger Danger is a pantsu collector.
- cidjen
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Re: [1532] The battlefield before me
Meh, @teddy-werebear is like a broken record with his hate of Miho, rly
What did she ever do to you ?
Right now, she seems to be helping. She'd have to know some shadow clones techniques to split herself between helping Yaku and interfering with PxM... She may be faster than a ninja but she can only be in one place at a time. Hopefully. So I can give her the benefit of the doubt for now. I mean I don't really hate her that much, she was through a lot... Lost the vile vibe a while ago. Even if she's just masking it really good, doesn't mean she can't change for real doesn't it ?
(Wonder how the game would handle the split personality battles hmm? Maybe let two players control the two copies of the same character, even more interesting if it's on split screen.)
(Also just came to my mind, who do you think is controlling/playing the Ninja Grandmama character?)
What did she ever do to you ?
Right now, she seems to be helping. She'd have to know some shadow clones techniques to split herself between helping Yaku and interfering with PxM... She may be faster than a ninja but she can only be in one place at a time. Hopefully. So I can give her the benefit of the doubt for now. I mean I don't really hate her that much, she was through a lot... Lost the vile vibe a while ago. Even if she's just masking it really good, doesn't mean she can't change for real doesn't it ?
(Wonder how the game would handle the split personality battles hmm? Maybe let two players control the two copies of the same character, even more interesting if it's on split screen.)
(Also just came to my mind, who do you think is controlling/playing the Ninja Grandmama character?)
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- BetaCygnus
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Re: [1532] The battlefield before me
Thought about it.Old_Gray_One wrote: ↑Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:56 pmI think that the Old Man is the one who opened up the giant container of ass-whuppage on the ninjas.
Think about it - He's sitting there, drinking his coffee, while there is a giant battle going on? That would make him either a) Already dead b) In a coma or c) the one who delivered the ass-whupping. Since a) and b) are both disproved by the coffee drinking, the answer must be c).
So… if I found myself drinking a cup of coffee somewhere in a public place and some group of certifiably recognizable warriors decided to engage in open battle right in front of me — and I did nothing — that would make me either a), b), or c) of your given options, but c) because I was drinking coffee?
I’m glad real life is levels higher than multiple choice — and the spectrum broader than seven colours. =)
Was Miho really a hero there?
Her ‘save’ of Kimiko was self-proclaimed to begin with, and the way I remember the situation, Miho only took Kimiko with her while jumping away from the killball that was going for *her* (=Miho, not Kimiko).
It was an ambiguous action at best in my opinion, because Ed’s killball would try to track Miho — not Kimi — and the horde was already onto Kimi again a few seconds later and they still had to run.
Kimi was more of a hero in standing up to and walking away from Dom right after that scene…
But that’s just my attempt at interpretation. =)
— Member № 48735 · February 13, 2006 —
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Re: [1532] The battlefield before me
This is actually funny.Old_Gray_One wrote: ↑Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:56 pmI think that the Old Man is the one who opened up the giant container of ass-whuppage on the ninjas.
Think about it - He's sitting there, drinking his coffee, while there is a giant battle going on? That would make him either a) Already dead b) In a coma or c) the one who delivered the ass-whupping. Since a) and b) are both disproved by the coffee drinking, the answer must be c).
Pitch battles in MegaTokyo are not particularly unusual and it isn't likely that random citizens are going to deliberately jump into one.
Miho is very fast and very strong even in her obviously weakened condition so I doubt that the fight lasted more than a couple of heartbeats before Miho shadow stepped off the scene
Re: [1532] The battlefield before me
Wait, what?BetaCygnus wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 6:31 am
Was Miho really a hero there?
Her ‘save’ of Kimiko was self-proclaimed to begin with, and the way I remember the situation, Miho only took Kimiko with her while jumping away from the killball that was going for *her* (=Miho, not Kimiko).
It was an ambiguous action at best in my opinion, because Ed’s killball would try to track Miho — not Kimi — and the horde was already onto Kimi again a few seconds later and they still had to run.
Kimi was more of a hero in standing up to and walking away from Dom right after that scene…
But that’s just my attempt at interpretation. =)
Wasn't Ed just blowing up buildings at random because he couldn't find Ping? Then Dom showed up and was making very uncomfortable conversation with Kimiko, meanwhile Kimiko's rabid fanbase was trying to mob the cafe, cutting off her ability to escape, then Miho intervened and jumped her out of there. And they didn't have to run afterwards, rather Kimiko decided to go off to do her event that had gotten cancelled.
https://megatokyo.com/strip/999
I mean, I guess you could consider this:
https://megatokyo.com/strip/1015
as having to run, but no more than Kimiko needed to before, and at least she wasn't cornered in the cafe anymore.
And as we can see here, it didn't take that much additional running:
https://megatokyo.com/strip/1018
Also noticeable that Kimiko's weirdness filter managed to keep functioning through all that as her description does not match the actual pictures.
Re: [1532] The battlefield before me
Your inherent bias is showing.Teddy-Werebear wrote: ↑Fri Aug 17, 2018 11:32 pmIt is not foul Miho to the rescue... she is no hero.
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- BetaCygnus
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Re: [1532] The battlefield before me
Sackett, as for the running, I was referring to this sceneSackett wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 4:19 pmWait, what?
Wasn't Ed just blowing up buildings at random because he couldn't find Ping?
(…)
I mean, I guess you could consider this:
https://megatokyo.com/strip/1015
as having to run, but no more than Kimiko needed to before, and at least she wasn't cornered in the cafe anymore.
And as we can see here, it didn't take that much additional running:
https://megatokyo.com/strip/1018
https://megatokyo.com/strip/1016
https://megatokyo.com/strip/1017
https://megatokyo.com/strip/1018
Note that Tsubasa is saying that Nanasawa is running away from fans.
Please also notice that Kimimo is standing bent over, leaning with her arms on her knees, huffing.
Now, look here, please:
https://megatokyo.com/strip/716
In this comic, Kimiko has just dashed after Largo, jumped and crash-landed.
There’s no huffing at all on her part here. Instead, she manages to express herself in a steady flow of words, interrupted only by Largo’s throwing up on her.
So your claiming that running with Miho from fans "didn’t take that much additional running" — I seem to disagree.
Now, you mention your interpretation of Ed’s killball rampage was just "blowing up buildings at random because he couldn’t find Ping". We actually see him blowing up MegaTokyo’s Town Hall because (he claimed!) he was bored, here:
https://megatokyo.com/strip/1062
…but do consider that Dom poses a question aimed at Ed’s motivation. Who is it, that they are talking about?
Also, consider this:
https://megatokyo.com/strip/818
Ever since that particular moment — ever since Miho interrupted his (nearly) clean shot at Ping — Ed has had Miho on top of his black list. Maybe even higher than Ping.
So yes, I say that Ed’s killball in…
https://megatokyo.com/strip/1000
…was actually going for Miho — as finally demonstrated in the epic killball volley in…
https://megatokyo.com/strip/1124
Mind that comic number and the place of the first killball sighting in MT timespace.
That’s how I reached my conclusions quoted by you. =)
(…) (snipped away a Bad-a-Cygnus too quick afterthought, if interested see below)
So, Sackett, all things considered as far as my memory goes, I tend to agree with Teddy that Miho was never a hero.
But the current situation with Yakugashi *may* have actually incited a new wave of character growth in her.
There are more non-heroes who ended up doing heroic stuff.
And I do not share Teddy’s maintained, though possiby (over-)acted, negative Miho bias.
I think Miho is off to help Yaku.
=)
Last edited by BetaCygnus on Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:37 am, edited 6 times in total.
— Member № 48735 · February 13, 2006 —
Re: [1532] The battlefield before me
Wait...BetaCygnus wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:17 pm
On top of that, she only took Kimi out of that situation with the fans because she saw an opportunity to have a cellular chat with Piro *that would be witnessed by Kimiko*.
Manipulation is not the same as heroism, in my vocabulary.
So, Sackett, all things considered as far as my memory goes, I tend to agree with Teddy that Miho was never a hero.
You are suggesting Miho saved Kimiko just so that she could get Kimiko to witness a phone call from Piro - a phone call that Miho wouldn't know was going to happen since Piro made the decision to call her on his own?
I mean, accusing characters of duplicity that depends on them being able to predict independent actions of other characters doesn't strike me as very reasonable.
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- BetaCygnus
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Re: [1532] The battlefield before me
Oops — my bad, you’re absolutely right about that point. Piro made the call.
So scrapping that from my arguments (editing my former post), as it was a (Too) Quick Afterthought™ to my already posted argumentation…
Thanks for the correction! =)
So… how about the rest of what I wrote?
=)
But still…
https://megatokyo.com/strip/995
If Miho did not manipulate Piro into calling her (which I still think she did by text messaging him just prior to the killball scene, letting Piro know that she was trying to contact him), then why did she take Kimiko?
As far as I can see, she could at least suspect that Piro was online. Most messaging services show when a message has been read.
So, could it be that she took Kimi — not Kimi’s phone — knowing that the fans would go after them, hoping otaku Piro would find out, hoping he would actually respond to her former hailing messages to him?
https://megatokyo.com/strip/998
Allright. I withdraw my former *accusation* of manipulation by Miho.
Instead, I *strongly suspect* her of manipulating both Piro and Kimiko into the situation where she is called by Piro because he knows she is with Kimi and he wants to talk with Kimi while Kimi witnesses Miho’s show of emotion as well as Piro’s treatment of Miho.
Wow… I’ve seen some manipulation in my life, but Miho impresses me here.
So, I withdraw my *suspicion* of Miho manipulating in the described scene with the killball.
I now *accuse* Miho of a far more intricate class of badass manipulation in that scene than I did earlier.
Oh and…
Reasonable. Yeah, that word.
As mentioned, I witnessed some manipulation in my life so far. Also, incoming manipulation of myself.
One of the characteristics of manipulation is actually the ability to anticipate future behaviour of those manipulated in response to certain (manipulated) circumstances or communications.
Also, if played well, the manipulator will manipulate *others* into *independently defending* (!) the manipulator whenever the *manipulator* is being *accused* of manipulation by *yet another group of others*.
In fact, the *independent defenders* may actually accuse the *accusers* of *not being reasonable*, even though all the evidence points to the *manipulator*.
So I believe I’m not being so *very* unreasonable there.
Well written, Fred! Kudos!!!
=)
Meanwhile…
Go Miho! Go save Yaku!!! She needs you, girl! \o/
— Member № 48735 · February 13, 2006 —
Re: [1532] The battlefield before me
For the old man, be it some guy that Junko is fond of, some perv, a creator of Ping that recalled her through Junko's phone. Whoever he is and whatever he wants. He's waiting for Ping to return, why would he be beating up some ninjas even if he could? It is far more likely he either didn't see the fight or ignored it as too strange, than it is he beat up all the ninja that brought Miho here. Plus Miho is far more than capable of doing whatever she wants. We might believe. After all, there's not much in the way of proof she has lost all her powers or is incapable of doing the things she used to do. She apparently still only seems what others want her to seem to be, or as "the story demands" it, until she's not like that. Even if Miho was serious about wanting to see Piro rather than just temporarily humoring the other two until the drama took over, there likely is no reason she'd need to do so for any of an ended or on hold on in progress story. Especially alone, and especially when there's somebody who needs help. Or maybe more importantly, someone who cold dissed Miho herself during the kidnapping process.
If that is a story that's been created for, by, or because of Miho, that's an interesting question. Perhaps the ninja clan leader is another Analogue. Maybe Yaku has already shoved a replacement story in motion by simply starting the process of attempting to. Or maybe Miho is just as effective and uninformative as she's always been.
For in the past, the "escape" from 1002 to 1025 was not too easy on Kimiko, but apparently not much for Miho. There's also what happens at the CoE, then at Ikebukuro, before Miho leaves until later. We see what happens, yet before 1002 just like after, we don't know Miho's exact motivations for being at the diner or rescuing Kimiko there. Were there plans before, plans after, is it short or long term. Was she winging it with no plot no story, interacting with Kimiko just because? Has it all been about Sight, or all about something else? We don't know, but Miho does show up around a lot of people at 'just the right time' like "randomly" at arguments and after Anna Miller's, not just this time at the diner. Was that jump out of the diner with Kimiko spur of the moment, it seems so, but what happens. Apparently nobody is killed, or at least Dom is fine later, and there's not much indication of a massive carnage of the NPC members or randoms inside the diner. So it is at least questionable how in public effective those killballs were against others, and no indication of how effective they would have been against the expected but not affected target.
How effective against the intended target killballs are, were, would be? The next time an even more massive number are fired directly at Miho, and we still have no idea precisely what happened at point of impact. All we got were Ed thinking he succeeded and Meimi appearing to feel something sad from it. Yet the next time we see Miho she doesn't look worse for wear, much less dead. While certainly in MT not being dead later doesn't prove nothing happened before, but we have seen Miho not be where they fired, in as short of a space as 1000 panel 11 to panel 12 and the distance to 1001 panel 1. Which given Miho's interactions wtih Ed circa 818 and 926... It would seem a reasonable conclusion Miho didn't need to rescue herself at the diner.
Why it all happened in that way, was Miho messing with Piro, trying to get in good with Kimiko, had latitude and wanted things to go this way. Maybe it's all just fate.
If that is a story that's been created for, by, or because of Miho, that's an interesting question. Perhaps the ninja clan leader is another Analogue. Maybe Yaku has already shoved a replacement story in motion by simply starting the process of attempting to. Or maybe Miho is just as effective and uninformative as she's always been.
For in the past, the "escape" from 1002 to 1025 was not too easy on Kimiko, but apparently not much for Miho. There's also what happens at the CoE, then at Ikebukuro, before Miho leaves until later. We see what happens, yet before 1002 just like after, we don't know Miho's exact motivations for being at the diner or rescuing Kimiko there. Were there plans before, plans after, is it short or long term. Was she winging it with no plot no story, interacting with Kimiko just because? Has it all been about Sight, or all about something else? We don't know, but Miho does show up around a lot of people at 'just the right time' like "randomly" at arguments and after Anna Miller's, not just this time at the diner. Was that jump out of the diner with Kimiko spur of the moment, it seems so, but what happens. Apparently nobody is killed, or at least Dom is fine later, and there's not much indication of a massive carnage of the NPC members or randoms inside the diner. So it is at least questionable how in public effective those killballs were against others, and no indication of how effective they would have been against the expected but not affected target.
How effective against the intended target killballs are, were, would be? The next time an even more massive number are fired directly at Miho, and we still have no idea precisely what happened at point of impact. All we got were Ed thinking he succeeded and Meimi appearing to feel something sad from it. Yet the next time we see Miho she doesn't look worse for wear, much less dead. While certainly in MT not being dead later doesn't prove nothing happened before, but we have seen Miho not be where they fired, in as short of a space as 1000 panel 11 to panel 12 and the distance to 1001 panel 1. Which given Miho's interactions wtih Ed circa 818 and 926... It would seem a reasonable conclusion Miho didn't need to rescue herself at the diner.
Why it all happened in that way, was Miho messing with Piro, trying to get in good with Kimiko, had latitude and wanted things to go this way. Maybe it's all just fate.
Re: [1532] The battlefield before me
Well no, not yet.Teddy-Werebear wrote: ↑Fri Aug 17, 2018 11:32 pmIt is not foul Miho to the rescue... she is no hero.
When Frodo says "I will take the ring, though I do not know the way," he's certainly no hero. Arguably the opposite: he failed to follow Gandalf's instructions, he totally fscked things up on Weathertop, he's been relying on his gardener for moral support. But saying "ok, I'll try" is the first step (not sufficient, but necessary) in that direction.
What Miho does in the next few strips will be key to determining which direction she's currently stepping. Being here to mess with P+K seems unlikely (again, the ninja were bringing her here anyway, so why bother escaping in that case). So either she's going back to help Yaku, or... she's not.
The former (possibly along with the earlier rescue of Kimiko as others mention above) would at least be a good step in the right direction.
A random pantsu collector would have wanted to know why the heck some chubby flaky non-Junko girl showed up instead of the Junko he'd paid (or prepared to pay) good money for. A random pantsu collector wouldn't have recognized Ping. A random pantsu collector would have made a more direct play for a location / situation where said pantsu could present themselves for collection rather than a leisurely slice of pie or an outdoor coffee cafe. And a random pantsu collector would have put more effort into collecting (gawking if not photographing) the pantsu of a young (in appearance) girl with a very loose kimono that almost certainly became looser in the course of smacking down a squad of ninja. (It's remotely possible he did manage to snap photos of Miho in action, and is now deciding which are non-blurry enough to be worth keeping. For my money he seems a bit too relaxed for that; he's got more attention on the coffee than the phone...)
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Re: [1532] The battlefield before me
You are too kind Darrin.
I think Stranger Danger is too absorbed in his world to see the larger world of Megatokyo.
And to quote a wise knight of yore, "I LIKE BIG BUTTS AND I CANNOT LIE..."
I think Stranger Danger is too absorbed in his world to see the larger world of Megatokyo.
And to quote a wise knight of yore, "I LIKE BIG BUTTS AND I CANNOT LIE..."
Re: [1532] The battlefield before me
Or too biased. Hard to tell sometimes.
It's definitely hard to be certain from just the one panel with the Old Man's face so tiny. Still kinda hoping for a conversation of some kind between him and Ashe; more fuel for the debate fires so to speak (betting that Fred would only use such a conversation to further prolong the ambiguities ).I think Stranger Danger is too absorbed in his world to see the larger world of Megatokyo.
Well that part I can't deny.And to quote a wise knight of yore, "I LIKE BIG BUTTS AND I CANNOT LIE..."
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Re: [1532] The battlefield before me
He doesn't collect undergarment...he collects GIRLS....
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Re: [1532] The battlefield before me
So he is a Japanese Night Stalker... who operates in the daytime... with digital footprints to track from the whole enyo kosai thing...
NAH!
Not buying that. Japanese garden variety pervert is much more plausible.
NAH!
Not buying that. Japanese garden variety pervert is much more plausible.
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Re: [1532] The battlefield before me
holy fsk....when did plausible ever count for anything in MT?Teddy-Werebear wrote: ↑Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:48 pmSo he is a Japanese Night Stalker... who operates in the daytime... with digital footprints to track from the whole enyo kosai thing...
NAH!
Not buying that. Japanese garden variety pervert is much more plausible.
Re: [1532] The battlefield before me
Like, literally? Like actually kidnapping (call a spade a spade) actual girls? Big pit in the basement with chains hanging down? "It puts the lotion on its skin, or else it gits th' hose agin?"
Yeah, this may be more biased than Bayesian on my part, but I'm gonna file that one under "I'll believe it when I see it."
And if it's not "literal" collection (and yet still in some sense true, as opposed to just trolling on anybody's part), then obviously it would mean collecting photos or pantsu or facebook profiles or whathaveyou.
More plausible than Fred suddenly and for no good reason turning MegaTokyo into some kind of Hills Have Eyes dreck just past the 1500 strip mark, I'll concede that much.Teddy-Werebear wrote: ↑Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:48 pmJapanese garden variety pervert is much more plausible.
By that argument Yuki is a reincarnation of Pope Urban VIII and the entire comic is an extended metaphor for the great debate over which heavenly bodies revolve around which. After all, it's plenty implausible, and that's all we need for it to be true, right?Invisigoth wrote: ↑Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:28 pmholy fsk....when did plausible ever count for anything in MT?
Yeah, sorry, no, it doesn't work that way. There need to be positive arguments to counterbalance the apparent implausibility of the claim. If he's a kidnapper ("collector" in the literal sense) of young girls then he's a psychopath, and the same argument I made about Teddy-Werebear's pantsu collector claim would still apply:
darrin (paraphrased) wrote: ↑Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:29 pmA random psychopath would have wanted to know why the heck some chubby flaky non-Junko girl showed up instead of the Junko he'd paid (or prepared to pay) good money for. A random psychopath wouldn't have recognized Ping. A random psychopath would have made a more direct play for a location / situation where said girl could present themselves for collection rather than a leisurely slice of pie or an outdoor coffee cafe. And a random psychopath would have paid more attention to a young (in appearance) girl with a very loose kimono that almost certainly became looser in the course of smacking down a squad of ninja.
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Re: [1532] The battlefield before me
He digitally collects girls
There's your spoiler for the day, parse it as you will
Your argument for the outlandish is not at all out of line with the views some express that since MT is all about the PoV then whatever they like is in fact the story.
There's your spoiler for the day, parse it as you will
Your argument for the outlandish is not at all out of line with the views some express that since MT is all about the PoV then whatever they like is in fact the story.
Re: [1532] The battlefield before me
So, ok, not literally (which was very strongly implied in the initial pooh-poohing of Teddy-Werebear's "pantsu" comment), just... digitally. So, pictures and other profile info. Which had already been postulated multiple times by multiple posters at this point. But no, yeah, awesome spoiler thanks.
Last edited by darrin on Mon Aug 27, 2018 1:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [1532] The battlefield before me
Well, the "pantsu" comment was just dumb.darrin wrote: ↑Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:25 pmSo, ok, not literally )which was very strongly implied in the initial pooh-poohing of Teddy-Werebear's "pantsu" comment), just... digitally. So, pictures and other profile info. Which had already been postulated multiple times by multiple posters at this point. But no, yeah, awesome spoiler thanks.
Junko seems to actually LIKE this guy and was enthused to get ready for a meet up. I really don't think that she'd be so happy if it were some garden variety panty sniffer who wanted to bother her.
Re: [1532] The battlefield before me
I do consider it far less likely than a lot of the alternatives (including the one I've been backing -- this is not actually an EK creep, but has something significant to do with Ping and was meeting with Junko for (non-EK) reasons directly related to that). But I wouldn't go so far as to call it intrinsically "dumb"... IF one is already accepting the assumption that this guy is an EK creep, and one is taking at face value the not-yet-in-comic description of him as a "collector", then yeah maybe "pantsu" shouldn't be your number 1 guess, but I wouldn't be surprised to see it in peoples' top 20s or even top 10s.
That is one of the key components of the argument I've been making for the past, wow literally ten strips now. So yeah, definitely same page with you there.Junko seems to actually LIKE this guy and was enthused to get ready for a meet up. I really don't think that she'd be so happy if it were some garden variety panty sniffer who wanted to bother her.
Re: [1532] The battlefield before me
There's always the possibility of "accidental heroes" and "anti-heroes". Miho could fit into one of these categories.Cygnus wrote:There are more non-heroes who ended up doing heroic stuff.
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Re: [1532] The battlefield before me
So, kiddie porn, eh? (I did hint at this.)
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