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[1512] Which one

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GreyWolfe
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Re: [1512] Which one

Post by GreyWolfe » Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:23 pm

darrin wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:55 pm
Ha, yet another parallel between Piro and Arthur Dent, namely the ending of "Mostly Harmless". :lol: (Heck even most of the book before the ending, he literally dropped Fenchurch right out of existence :o)
Could be worse. Imagine if a random girl appeared and it was confirmed that she was Piro's unknown daughter :P
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Re: [1512] Which one

Post by Zandra » Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:29 pm

Ray Kremer wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:51 pm
Ugh. There's a forum, right? I remember coming to the forum now and again. Oh yes, here it is.

Aaaaanyway, I've long been saying (mostly to Fred) that I think if there's any future for Piro and Miho, whatever has happened, is happening, and will happen between Piro and Kimiko is necessary for him to reach a character growth point where he can actually deal with seeing past all the baggage and having a proper committed relationship with Miho. And also that if there's any future for Piro and Miho, Kimiko will still need some kind of closure on everything that's happened between her and Piro.

Of course if there is no future for Piro and Miho after all, then all the Piro/Kimiko stuff is just for its own sake.

Fred keeps insisting that he can't allow the character that's supposed to be based on himself to have a nice ending with either girl, but most of the time he doesn't end up listening to himself anyway.

It's kind of odd, in a way. Back many years ago Fred declared he was going to stop dragging things out and aim for an ending to the plot, and he later said doing so made the plot good again. (And it turned out aiming for an ending didn't get him there any faster either.) Well, Fred's efforts in turning Piro towards Miho came about because the Piro/Kimiko relationship was running out of steam. Both of them are too boring to move things along without the outside plot throwing disasters at them. And yet as a result of that, look at how far Piro/Kimiko has advanced versus how far Piro/Miho has advanced.

Although at this point it's still nearly impossible to get a read on what Kimiko's intentions are. Things were meta enough when she was being "both herself and Miho". Now that she's "stopped being her", what is the play? "That was fun, now go to her"? "Go to her, but if it doesn't work out I'll still be here"? "You have another choice to make now, her or me"?
Ahhh. We finally see the divergence point forming to half of MT fans hating Piro or loving him. Or a school days type of Ending where Miho is holding piros head and drifting off into the sunset because he sexes both of them. And seraphim holding the bloody knife after stabbing miho before she sets them adrift,because She wanted piro secretly.
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Re: [1512] Which one

Post by darrin » Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:40 pm

GreyWolfe wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:23 pm
random
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Last edited by darrin on Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [1512] Which one

Post by Ningen » Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:15 pm

I read the "don't tell me..." somewhat differently: same lips, same sensations, same girl, no matter which part she's playing.


With regard to the bath house scene, there is a key difference - Miho made it very clear ahead of time that she did not want him to play for her. Kimiko made it very clear that she did.
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Re: [1512] Which one

Post by GreyWolfe » Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:18 pm

Ningen wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:15 pm
With regard to the bath house scene, there is a key difference - Miho made it very clear ahead of time that she did not want him to play for her. Kimiko made it very clear that she did.
Piro called her on it though, reminding her that any scene he played with her would be a "hell of a lot deeper than this". She was yanking his chain and for once (still my favourite sequence) he called her bullshit.
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Re: [1512] Which one

Post by Projectmars » Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:50 pm

GreyWolfe wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:23 pm
darrin wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:55 pm
Ha, yet another parallel between Piro and Arthur Dent, namely the ending of "Mostly Harmless". :lol: (Heck even most of the book before the ending, he literally dropped Fenchurch right out of existence :o)
Could be worse. Imagine if a random girl appeared and it was confirmed that she was Piro's unknown daughter :P
Don't think it quite worked when Tenchi did that though.

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Re: [1512] Which one

Post by Teddy-Werebear » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:27 pm

Or Ranma 1/2 after a few seasons or years of manga.

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Re: [1512] Which one

Post by cidjen » Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:08 am

Ray Kremer wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:51 pm
[...]
Fred keeps insisting that he can't allow the character that's supposed to be based on himself to have a nice ending with either girl, but most of the time he doesn't end up listening to himself anyway.

It's kind of odd, in a way. Back many years ago Fred declared he was going to stop dragging things out and aim for an ending to the plot, and he later said doing so made the plot good again. (And it turned out aiming for an ending didn't get him there any faster either.) Well, Fred's efforts in turning Piro towards Miho came about because the Piro/Kimiko relationship was running out of steam. Both of them are too boring to move things along without the outside plot throwing disasters at them. And yet as a result of that, look at how far Piro/Kimiko has advanced versus how far Piro/Miho has advanced.

Although at this point it's still nearly impossible to get a read on what Kimiko's intentions are. Things were meta enough when she was being "both herself and Miho". Now that she's "stopped being her", what is the play? "That was fun, now go to her"? "Go to her, but if it doesn't work out I'll still be here"? "You have another choice to make now, her or me"?
I recall @Paarfi telling me something re. what Fred says :) about his characters (Piro especially - the old 'you won't like Piro when the story is done' phrase); (here)

From that I get that it is hard to distinguish what he really thinks from what he just lets people think. I call it 'the Artist's mind' :) because it's hard to figure out, whatever did the Artist mean by 'that'.

Maybe it's a similar case. Maybe the effort to turn Piro back to Miho were doomed from the onset, because Piro wouldn't do that - because the Artist wouldn't do that to him?

We can only fantasize about what PxM relationship would have been, but it's been explored in different stories and even in real life a lot - sometimes people do come back to each other, sometimes that ends up as a real improvement on their relationship, sometimes not; there is also a lot of counter-examples and even highly-publicized on-off relationships (and the unsung non-published real-life dramas) to the each nook and cranny of this claim.

But I think, for the PxM to actually work, Miho herself will have to change considerably; otherwise it would be in danger of ending just as tragically as the first attempt did (only in 'real life' setting) - Piro is now stronger, especially after the box-couch conversation and the bath house and the school, he has the potential now to not emo-out to someone abusing him emotionally (see the after-Anna-Miller's Train Disaster). If Miho did something similar again, and because of her 'broken story' she would be bound to - he'd just get up and leave and never come back again.

Now though we have both PxM and PxK seemingly re-steamed - Piro and Kimiko have actively been working together to save Miho. My thoughts are, that if any chance is given to Miho to change herself, she might; after all, the 'bad ending' she's been living is nowhere near her 'real life'.

But Kimiko did not say the last word here nor did her role end. She has shown Piro, unknowingly, that Miho could be worth to be given a chance; unknowingly because Kimiko doesn't know everything (e.g. the little polygon bump) from Piro's side (and there are gaps in Piro's tale about the Endgames OOG relationship that look quite similar in construct to what was happening when Miho did not tell Piro her story - the awkward gaps - something they don't want to talk about; ) nor from Miho's side.

Would Kimiko still help Piro save Miho if she had the full picture? Maybe. But they wouldn't probably end up in the same love hotel room afterwards, or Kimiko wouldn't be that eager to tell him the news about the Lockart job or looking forward to working together... on a story that has the potential to permanently save Miho.

----
And now to break the mood a bit, here is what my wacky part of my brain thought could totally not happen next:

- we get a cutscene to the foxgirl and ninja and Miho at the ninja compound
- as a result of what happens there, we get back to the love hotel, and find Miho in the shower
(as in, the fsshhhhhhh sound wasn't the shower going, it was Junpei ninja-ing Miho there)

like, Piro with his bad sight enters and hallucinates he's seeing Miho in the shower; 'hey i told you to use cold water to rinse that'; approaches, notices his mistake and we get another 'you always freeze at that point, makes the girl think what you really think of her' type of scene...

(or we get Miho helping Kimiko release herself from her characterization and Piro gets another blow in the forehead and is told to wait outside....)
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Re: [1512] Which one

Post by paarfi » Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:32 pm

Fred is starting work on the next comic today. You can watch him draw it live on Twitch.
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Re: [1512] Which one

Post by iffy » Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:33 pm

Someone with unresolved issues of the past or who remembers the good parts fondly doesn't necessarily mean there has to be much more of substance to it all, regardless if they can't let it go or move on fully. If the last panel is him flatly telling his inner self it is wrong, maybe it is because he is letting go and moving on. Indeed, it might be he has finally somewhat at least consciously recognized that pining over the done gone and likely never obtainable is at the least somewhat counterproductive and less than conducive to the future, even if he can't fully remove all traces of the subconscious parts. Some of that depends on how much any of this is actually about Miho herself and what is about what she represents in a lot of other things. Perhaps even similar to his interactions with the personification of his conscience about some of those same things.

Although we could be in store for one of the biggest psych-outs ever dropped. He goes in, still in the mood of the last panel, whatever that was exactly. That it isn't he's needed his conscience less and less, but that he does't really want this now, or at all. Does things like purposely silently ignores Kimiko, takes a shower, and leaves. Goes in and tells her he still has old feelings he can't drop and won't be participating any more. Who knows, perhaps she's not really interested and laughs at his attempts, whatever he does or not. Might be there's even something like a switch, like to whatever Yakugashi and Junpei are doing, such as grabbing Miho and returning to stop things just before Piro can walk in the shower and ruin that actual romance going on in the background waiting for its chance. Okay not that sorry junk. But there are lots of things Fred would be able to make work to reverse things right now or over the next few comics.

This last panel seems pretty much the first time there's been a verbalization from Piro that there was something specific about before potentially holding him back, feelings by him that might not be over, at least one actual reason for all his hesitancy and inaction. Our aha truth that the impact of Miho upon him is not zero, even if the problem has little to do with Miho directly in particular. Or for that matter is specifically about Pirogoeth or Endgames or chats or other things. For example, his dissatisfaction with coming over here to Otaku Paradise and finding himself still out of place. Yes, that does mean he he might have had or does have romantic feelings for Miho herself or what she represents, in spite of everything or anything else. That it isn't just memory and nostalgia and wanting to stay ambivalent, or some attempt at fixing his past bad game choices. (Betraying his friend. Murdering the father of her child. Exposing the hack. Abandoning the girl in hospital who cut her hair and made the nurses angry. There seem to be plenty of things to regret alone or in a mix.) Yes then, what if this isn't him telling his conscience he doesn't need it any longer. Not him saying that these are not fresh new problems needing advice. Not saying they are instead leftover pieces that have been mostly solved to the point they can be dealt with as existing but not controlling. If it's not any of that, then what. That last panel doesn't necessarily prove or disprove that he was or is in love with Miho, any more than it proves or disproves he was or is in love with Kimiko. After all, if the fated outcome is locked into not winning or losing, that could be Px nothing and nobody. Does Miho even exist? If not, dumping Kimiko in favor of something that isn't really there seems more like losing though. Not that we can be sure if winning, losing or neither is preordained, or if it was ever or is any longer applicable.

There's another bit of seeming evidence of the past feelings too. It isn't like here, him saying something solid to "somebody else" though, but an even more open to interpretation are any of your girls happy? . Perhaps rather than fondly remembering an episode of him drawing what she told him about herself or him drawing a story he's creating through art and simply ending the feud, maybe that is a 'before telling her he loves her' attitude and look of his in 1236. Although once he does meet up with Miho the next day, he seems shocked, angry, and spends the first part accusing her of things and ranting about being dumped via trickery and malice. Maybe that's just the venting before the proclaiming, maybe it's just him remembering the bad parts for a short while only. Only because instead of being able to see and talk to her last night while he was in a good mood, there was the being arrested and bailed out and everything he's thinking on the walk back. It could be that's only what changed whatever plans there were.

Although the way it goes the next day seems to be not at all be the demeanor of anybody who was ready to proclaim their undying love the night before, regardless of went on in between. That the last night conversation might have been a lot like the next day one. Of course we can't know what would have happened last night, before any interruptions, sadly. Because Yuki got there first and took her away to the CoE for the Dance of the Evils. Although that is rather interesting, what if instead of helping along what Yuki was trying to, she ruined it forever through her inexperienced meddling. Or letting Miho goad her into action. And then Yuki's further machinations have only made it worse, threw it even more out of whack. But again, we'd have to know what was "supposed to happen" to know what got shoved out of place or not. To ask questions like if every time Miho gets saved, is it actually interrupting what was supposed to be her permanent removal from play, or just more evidence of her continued impact on the stories no matter what. We'd have to know if the entire her or everyone is supposed to die is just melodramatic piffle. We only see that she isn't dead and neither is anyone else. Although that could depend on if the changes to her character (from mysterious quantity out of the unknown, to dangerous adversary, to sick girl, to dead/vanished, to vainly trying to escape, to hostage/guest at ninja compound) count as dying or not, within the realms of Analogue or otherwise. The point of which is that 1236 doesn't establish things about Piro even as well as however much this last panel in 1512 does. :frownyface:

Then also with Piro, there has been a general hesitancy previously, that seemed largely unrelated to relationships. Aside from trying to better understand past events (it's a large part of what seems to be Chapter 11's conversations) there's also the aspect in a number of chapters in seeing (and being involved in) what "being famous" does to people. How it affects Miho (the fans putting her together, what Kimiko tells him of the CoE the night before). Certainly how it has and is affecting Erika somewhat, and Kimiko more and more, and even himself as well. Going along with the entire Sight project and bringing Kotone "to life" in it, the scheduling, the Nanasawa Protection Coalition, and all that goes along with being "Kimiko's boyfriend"... Much less to "Piro that ultra-gifted artist from Sight". Much of what he's been avoiding could largely revolve around going from being a fan and consumer of fiction to an insider producing it and losing out on all the magic of the finished product. And the fans, he didn't realize, intercepting at Anna Millers, and the trip to Ikebukuro to watch Kimiko, he didn't see that as well as carrying Kimiko off now did he.

From what we've apparently seen, aside from such activities as biding time or looking for things like in Endgames, creating stories as major character representations like Sight or out in Megatokyo, absorbing things that have gone wrong like Erika quitting, and assisting or rescuing players, one of Miho's major purposes is letting those who might become famous know what they're in for. What's up with her? Take a look at what might happen to you! If not that, what sort of odds would we give to a catalyst inextricably intertwined in its own story. A sort of muse falling for a mortal or the gods allowing such to pass type of thing. Or is this just a story of these two guys becoming somewhat normal and responsible. As much as they are able to anyway.

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Re: [1512] Which one

Post by cidjen » Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:47 pm

iffy wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:33 pm
game choices. (Betraying his friend. Murdering the father of her child. Exposing the hack. Abandoning the girl in hospital who cut her hair and made the nurses angry. There seem to be plenty of things to regret alone or in a mix.)
Wait did I miss something... You're implying that all Piro told Kimiko that evening above Megagamers was a lie and an attempt to whitewash himself? Is it the body language that gives it up? Confused, I am.

All the above what you wrote, apart from exposure of the hack, are decidedly negative. Piro just doesn't seem to be that kind of a vile ... Or I am positively biased. Ok, he might have lied or omitted something ... Kinda with Madbadger on this; like who doesn't do that in their life... and aside from the little polygon bump, most of that could be resolved by using some added sincerity and some atonement... But turn the entire story on its head? It does make some sense but I do not want to believe...
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Re: [1512] Which one

Post by iffy » Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:17 pm

No, not all of it was known originally, some was filled in recently. Plus we know most everything is filtered through a few layers of perspective, there's essentially always two layers at least (author, reader) and when it comes to MT however many many layers the characters add. There seems to be very little to no lying, but that still doesn't necessarily mean we can trust anything just because somebody said it or thinks it.

There are four stories (at least) of "what happened in Endgames" which apparently not everyone is aware of all parts, and some are shall we say highly stylized. There is also the hidden unknown "truth" in the overstory, which would be something one might only get from watching the game being played by all the players, or via reading the logs, or more. The individual stories are of course highly suspect, but not because the players are purposely lying about anything. We don't really know if they are or aren't being truthful about any one thing, because it's all based upon their perception, of events they know or suspect, and in a context of what they're willing to talk about directly or indirectly. (There's also that we get some of the stories out of order, or not at the same time, and there are things we're uncertain of when trying to balance the words and the art that goes along.)

At Magical Cake, Miho gives a rather flat accounting of some things relating to the mechanics of Endgames, not nearly as fanciful as what Largo was thinking while he was figuring out who Miho was very early on. There is not much detail there (not surprising, it's from Miho) about the game in that talk, but enough perhaps to get a good idea (along with some of the things Largo thinks, and what gets filled in later about it). Essentially later happenings suggest all three of them were not exactly being honest about a lot of things, to large part because they had forgotten it or repressed it to forgotten levels. Whatever else, we don't really yet know Miho isn't just a hostess at the CoE, or is really from out of the Necrowombicon, or is one or more of the real thing, an Analogue, the source of powerful stories.

During their romantic interlude in the park, Largo gives Erika a version of Endgames from his standpoint, where it's pretty apparent then (and more later, at least when balanced against other things we learn in such as 1396) to Erika and us that Largo is hamming it up and skipping a few things (even as he might remember them). First year drama student and such. One might be a rivalry with Piro over the girl behind the character. But one is for sure Pirogoeth healing up Moh and Moh then killing Largo. This is of course in other stories too. Betrayal etc.

As Piro is telling Kimiko part of why he's all jacked up, he relates the tricks and fakery going on, but the Endgames story is pretty clear there's some more to the in-game happenings, and in the end certainly Pirogoeth kills Moh. Well apparently at least semi permanently. Slicing the face is likely how it can be so Piro is free again to actually turn in "Miho" for the hack (likely in anger after "Phil" dumps him). Either way, it turns out later she has killed the father of her child, not necessarily that Piro knew what was going on with Pirogoeth in that regard. The Piro version is pretty close to Largo's though, but that's rather expected. That they might both differ in their perceptions from whatever anyone else's were, them being a team of sorts and everything.

Which what actually leads to finding out that who Pirogoeth killed was be the father of her child she probably at the time didn't know was programmed, there's the Komugiko telling of Endgames, at the time when Moh and Largo are not there metaphysically in game (and apparently Piro is in inactive land too out of game, and his toon is running around on her own). Perhaps some of that is Mugi being understandably sensitive to the issue. Both Piro and Miho in real Megatokyo life appear shocked that there was some Endgames digital baby, but who can trust either of them, not necessarily that we have any reason to know they knew at first, but can't be entirely convinced they didn't. Which might put a spin on a number of things later depending on how that all turns out.

But if we're talking about Piro worrying about things in the past and trying to right game wrongs (which as we know where Miho is concerned everything is always a game) he (piro) certainly has known for a while she (pirogoeth) killed him (Moh). To also end the hack apparently. All after she'd already been put into alone single mother mode? Which also sounds a lot like Kotone but whatever.

Then there's the highly seemingly odd or suspect drawing Piro is looking at in 1236 (which has been around since the start when Yuki got the bookbag) and it almost appears as if he'd been there to draw it before rather than just drawing it as an idea, that the drawing was based upon things she told him in Endgames. Or he drew it and then they happened in Megatokyo, he's more powerful as an artist than it first appears. Or perhaps the most likely, he copied photos she had sent. Whichever of those or something else, that game and playing it was a choice in whatever games appear to have stemmed from Endgames, the chats, whatever was going on.

The point is whatever of those are true or not, or whatever else there may be that we don't know about, there is a lot for Piro to potentially regret that isn't about being in love or lust with anyone or not.

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Re: [1512] Which one

Post by Roamer » Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:58 am

Ray Kremer wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:51 pm
Ugh. There's a forum, right? I remember coming to the forum now and again. Oh yes, here it is.

Aaaaanyway, I've long been saying (mostly to Fred) that I think if there's any future for Piro and Miho, whatever has happened, is happening, and will happen between Piro and Kimiko is necessary for him to reach a character growth point where he can actually deal with seeing past all the baggage and having a proper committed relationship with Miho. And also that if there's any future for Piro and Miho, Kimiko will still need some kind of closure on everything that's happened between her and Piro.
Very much this. It nicely zeros in on something I haven't been able to put into words - the idea that Piro needs to grow in order to choose. He realizes that he has to make a choice, but he loves both of them in very different ways. And I think Kimoko sees this and is trying to make him choose, not just for her sake, but for both of them. If either pairing is going to work, then closure with the other girl in the equation is necessary.
GreyWolfe wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:18 pm
Ningen wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:15 pm
With regard to the bath house scene, there is a key difference - Miho made it very clear ahead of time that she did not want him to play for her. Kimiko made it very clear that she did.
Piro called her on it though, reminding her that any scene he played with her would be a "hell of a lot deeper than this". She was yanking his chain and for once (still my favourite sequence) he called her bullshit.
I'm willing to admit I'm enough of a romantic to believe she should get some kind of happiness after all the horrible crap she's gone through. But rationally, I think M&P is a good idea, simply because Miho needs someone to call her on her BS, and he's the only one she would listen to.

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Re: [1512] Which one

Post by iffy » Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:26 am

Blustering about what he would do, while both of them are clearly uninterested in doing anything, and then proceed to do nothing? That's not so informative. We saw the actual behavior though. He wants to talk about what she is and how he can save her, she's supposedly giving him a demonstration of what she is (but just as well might be waiting to draw Yuki and Yutaka directly into the story) and his conscience is bored because whatever he thinks of Miho, there apparently aren't any moral dilemmas of that nature here. Yes Piro seems more fixated on what he remembers of the past, mistakes made, bad choices, giving up, what might have been. He is not paying much attention to everyone else's conviction he's Kimiko's boyfriend and artistic partner etc, but does nothing much establishing he isn't. He's got unfinished business he wants to take care of, so does Kimiko want him to, that's for sure. If any of what remains unresolved involves love that is questionable even still. Certainly it could be there are deep feelings about Miho in romantic ways, he just keeps them very locked away. And maybe she's human enough and actually available and feels the same. Or maybe she's not actually there in the physical realm and has been doing something similar to matchmaking for ExL and KxP. That she was in Endgames searching for blokes like that. Got drawn in for a while to some extent, and now more drawn in since the guys "conveniently coincidentally" showed up in person. A problem is we don't know how much she seems within the story simply because that's how it works, and is actually detached, unconcerned, unavailable, and either imaginary or some other form of life. Regardless if he was/is in love with the images revolving around her or not.

I have some suspicion about that bathhouse incident, that Miho was actually trying to tell Piro something of substance, but that he refused to go along with it. Something like she was figuratively hitting a car with a power pole, he wanted clear answers. She apparently can't and doesn't function that way. The goose lays eggs made of gold, stop trying to figure out how, the only alternative is no more gold. When he kept staying focused on getting literal information, she couldn't do what she was trying, there are no direct answers, there is nothing that can be verbalized. If she has to give a demonstration (it can't just be dryly logically explained that hey she's way magical to goddess levels) he can't be literal, he has to pay attention to the gaps and not ask about why she would need them. This is allegedly all about feelings not facts. Then the demonstration keeps escalating, to the point where she goes off and it's not about her any more, he's got his logical direct explanation, and it's that he doesn't really want to know how the fantastic works. If that's true, apparently he's moved away from being shown the fantastic, he doesn't want things to continue like that or revert. Which doesn't make the past go away or be unimportant. It doesn't need to for him to focus on Kimiko, who he clearly has feelings for and in the present.

If he wants what he seems he wants, sensible logical unfantastic fact, he might realize he needs to move on to a real person (even if he doesn't fully want to do so) not be enveloped by a mystical essential source of characters and narrative. Even if that's what Piro and Kimiko end up using to create the most magical story and character ever in Otaku history. This doesn't mean that has to stay like that forever, but maybe the worst possible thing that could ever happen to Piro is that he creates things rather than experiences the results, that he isn't dreamily looking at the body pillow, he's on one. Or maybe that is what he's been the most afraid of.

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Re: [1512] Which one

Post by NinjaDefenestrator » Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:21 pm

> maybe that is what he’s been the most afraid of.

Interesting. I have a vague idea that it might be opposite; that ever since Miho destroyer their prior relationship, Piro’s been afraid to accept any kind of reality beyond what’s right in front of him. “I haven’t understood anything since then.”

Ack. Must go, will edit to clarify later.

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Re: [1512] Which one

Post by cidjen » Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:04 am

NinjaDefenestrator wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:21 pm
> maybe that is what he’s been the most afraid of.

Interesting. I have a vague idea that it might be opposite; that ever since Miho destroyer their prior relationship, Piro’s been afraid to accept any kind of reality beyond what’s right in front of him. “I haven’t understood anything since then.”

Ack. Must go, will edit to clarify later.
Regardless, I'm with you on this one .

Piro x Kimiko actually is (from my pov) a quite cute and powerful combination by itself, one character (Kimiko) saying she is flawed, when we, the audience (well, me) can't really see why she says so (Erika mentions how Kimiko treated her past partners, but also, that Kimiko did not give up on Erika;), and the other (Piro) acting his flaws and insecurities right before us. We (sort of) know where his flaws would be coming from, we can see a sensitive and kind character in her; Only flaws probably being insecure and kinda naive and following impulses.

That then develops into Kimiko actually having the 'good' influence on Piro, which is a story in itself. Kimiko, if she actually fell in love with Piro, could just clean the slate by saying something similar to 'I don't care about your (Miho hi)story, I only care where it goes from here' and she'd be on the way to fixing some of the damage Miho has done, probably permanently.

(Yes, same as what Piro told Miho in the class room, before she went to get a school uniform for him. It seems like a pretty underestimated moment in the story... Piro offered Miho clean slate... whether Miho understood it then, it's hard to say (my guess is, she didn't) )

Piro x Miho definitively was a thing back-then-2-cy-ago. Whether it ended because Piro was the vile one, and she got scared of his stalking, or because she wanted to protect him but went overboard with the blow, I'm rather inclined for the latter ('It was a nice little fantasy, for a little while' - Miho). Bringing it back, would require substantial sacrifice and cooperation on a lot of levels, between all 3. Not impossible, but hard to imagine.
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Re: [1512] Which one

Post by NinjaDefenestrator » Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:08 am

I could see it going the way Ray Kremer suggested: that Piro might play out a relationship with Kimiko so he can grow enough as a person to face what happened with Miho.

That would certainly provide a story path: the two of them navigating Kimiko’s career as an idol while Piro works as an artist at Lockart. Plenty of potential chaos to throw at them to make their relationship interesting from the outside, while they live with the spectre of Miho between them as they bring Kotone to life.

If that’s the case, what becomes of the real Miho in the meantime? Yakugashi and Junpei are on the way to visit her at the ninja compound. Miho is presumably still desperate to know how Kimiko is doing, given that Kimiko risked her life to play dead so Miho could escape. Yaku is aware that Piro and Kimiko are safe at the love hotel. She doesn’t seem too pleased with Miho’s antics in general (“Again? She’s always doing that to Mom.”), so she will likely be happy to impart any information that would cause Miho to stop acting out and go back to the Cave of Evil where she won’t upset Mugi by dying anymore.

Given that Miho was worried about screwing up Piro’s and Kimiko’s relationship, it makes sense that she’d try to stay out of their story. That would put her neatly away “in storage” while the rest of the comic moves forward. Maybe she’ll mess around with Endgames some more, get to know the child she fathered with Pirogoeth because she’s sad and misses Piro, whatever.

Stability triumphs for the time being. We can move on to Ping trying to take on some of Junko’s “users” (probably getting sexually assaulted in the process but putting up with it because she wants to earn money for Junko), Yuki’s magical girl antics with Zomzomeko and Chewtoy (kill me), whatever the hell Largo and Erika get up to next (fending off Dom? Erika finishing Moeko’s story?), probably more Sawatari shenanigans (now with bonus ninja).

God, that would suck. Screw Stability.

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Re: [1512] Which one

Post by NinjaDefenestrator » Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:25 am

Oh, one nitpick: Piro did know about Pirogoeth’s pregnancy when (s)he killed m0h. “Well, we weren’t exactly talking when I found out.” https://megatokyo.com/strip/1350

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Re: [1512] Which one

Post by cidjen » Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:29 pm

NinjaDefenestrator wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:25 am
Oh, one nitpick: Piro did know about Pirogoeth’s pregnancy when (s)he killed m0h. “Well, we weren’t exactly talking when I found out.” https://megatokyo.com/strip/1350
I know, and Miho didn't... (We could have saved them! I wouldn't put her through that if I knew...) Didn't change much of the outcome anyway.

Yeah what Ray Said I can subscribe to too.
But thinking about it some more, maybe the moment of hesitating before going into the shower, with conscience intervention, was what was meant to happen from the arc starting at the school classroom (i don't care about your story... just figure out where it [the story ] goes from here) because there was not enough time for that to happen? Just a thought.

Btw chewtoy = Yutaka right?
He may be (too ) soft for a mgkgrll Yuki, but the guy has some skill (horde disinformation, resurrection of hardware) he may surprise us yet, I hope so...
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Re: [1512] Which one

Post by Roamer » Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:24 pm

cidjen wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:29 pm
Btw chewtoy = Yutaka right?
He may be (too ) soft for a mgkgrll Yuki, but the guy has some skill (horde disinformation, resurrection of hardware) he may surprise us yet, I hope so...
When you look at how badly he was mauled by Yuki just carrying him around, and what Dom has to say about his own experiences, I think this helps to explain how oddly the former MG's behave. Part of their learning curve is realizing just how easy it is to hurt - or worse - others. And looking at someone and realizing you did that damage could bring out pretty aberrant behavior (kleptomania and a love for sharp things!)

It also improves my impression of Masamichi - not only did he survive the experience more or less unscathed, but he's determined to see that Yuki takes as little damage from her own learning curve as he can possibly arrange. Which may be why he's willing to have Largo around her. Largo's a first class loose cannon and not too tightly screwed together, but he protects his friends.

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Re: [1512] Which one

Post by paarfi » Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:38 pm

Roamer wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:24 pm
It also improves my impression of Masamichi - not only did he survive the experience more or less unscathed, but he's determined to see that Yuki takes as little damage from her own learning curve as he can possibly arrange. Which may be why he's willing to have Largo around her. Largo's a first class loose cannon and not too tightly screwed together, but he protects his friends.
I'd expect that Masamichi does not know that Largo is mentoring Yuki. Meimi knows, of course, but she doesn't tell Masamichi about Yuki's magical girling any more than she has to [1036].
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Re: [1512] Which one

Post by Xavon » Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:49 pm

So am I the only one who has a problem with an angel smoke a cigarette? Especially in a hotel room?

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Re: [1512] Which one

Post by cidjen » Sun Feb 18, 2018 1:04 am

Xavon wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:49 pm
So am I the only one who has a problem with an angel smoke a cigarette? Especially in a hotel room?
It's a holy one who smokes ;)

/More srsly (but not totally) since it's celestial, probably undetectable by human smoke detectors...

/Even more srsly but not totally, it's Piro's imagination smoking.
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Re: [1512] Which one

Post by cidjen » Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:31 am

Hope this isn't taboo on the forums, but looking at twitch recordings (I can't ever see it going live b.c. not my timezone and really long...) looks like we will have some continuation :) can't see where it's going yet but it will be really class, as always :)


(Also twitch is really very very heavy on my computer... I much prefer YouTube... )
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Re: [1512] Which one

Post by paarfi » Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:44 am

cidjen wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:31 am
Hope this isn't taboo on the forums, but looking at twitch recordings
It would be a good thing, please, if people did not spoiler the upcoming comic in the forum, at least until it has been posted to patreon. It has happened before, not badly and not often, and I've just let it slide. But to be more clear, I'll start mentioning it when I post announcements that Fred has started on the next comic.
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