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[1510] I guess I'll have to stop...

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Re: [1510] I guess I'll have to stop...

Post by cidjen » Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:30 am

Selvius wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:38 am
Poor Kimiko.

While actors do portray characters, in order to make them “real,” they must put a bit of their own emotion into them. Even method actors begin building their character’s world view from within themselves.

For a short time, Kimiko got to be the woman Piro loved. Now she has to stop.
Looks like Kimiko might have played Miho's part pretty well, and should be pretty damn proud of herself, by his reaction - seeing that Piro is not keen to go back to his 'old Miho flame'. See what darrin, iffy and I was discussing around 1509...

That is not to say Piro didn't /ever/ love Miho - he 'just' doesn't love Miho RIGHT NOW. Doesn't mean he has no feelings for Miho, but love is not one of them.
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Re: [1510] I guess I'll have to stop...

Post by paarfi » Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:55 am

cidjen wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:30 am
seeing that Piro is not keen to go back to his 'old Miho flame'. See what darrin, iffy and I was discussing around 1509...
While I appreciate iffy and darrin's discussion, I have to disagree. Piro has been hurt, but he still oves Miho and they are (slowly and haltingly) finding their way back together because that is what they both want.

On the other hand, I think these last two comics have shown something that is still missing from Piro and Miho's relationship. Yes the smexytimes, but even more so just a sense of fun. Piro and Miho are intimate in other ways, but have not yet got over the hurt and lack of understanding yet, and that makes fun difficult. I hope that will come. Love can be many things, but it kinda sucks without a little joy.
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Re: [1510] I guess I'll have to stop...

Post by cidjen » Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:35 am

paarfi wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:55 am
cidjen wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:30 am
seeing that Piro is not keen to go back to his 'old Miho flame'. See what darrin, iffy and I was discussing around 1509...
While I appreciate iffy and darrin's discussion, I have to disagree. Piro has been hurt, but he still oves Miho and they are (slowly and haltingly) finding their way back together because that is what they both want.

On the other hand, I think these last two comics have shown something that is still missing from Piro and Miho's relationship. Yes the smexytimes, but even more so just a sense of fun. Piro and Miho are intimate in other ways, but have not yet got over the hurt and lack of understanding yet, and that makes fun difficult. I hope that will come. Love can be many things, but it kinda sucks without a little joy.
Mmm, idk... see how Piro is totally non-responsive when Kimiko enacts her version of what she thinks Miho is feeling and what Miho would do (to the point of confusion, whether Kimiko says 'I love you' as herself or channeling Miho's character). This certainly is a source of joy for Kimiko (the-real-one) though; I would* be surprised if she didn't want to keep him that way.

Might still backfire, since 'the real Miho' was so infuriating to him, that he just did not see the hints that SHE, the REAL MIHO loves him... had to have an actress tell him this... will he now look back past the hurt and find it in him again ? ...

*edit : too many negatives
Last edited by cidjen on Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [1510] I guess I'll have to stop...

Post by paarfi » Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:40 am

cidjen wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:35 am
see how Piro is totally non-responsive when Kimiko enacts her version of what she thinks Miho is feeling and what Miho would do
Kimiko's performance is for the horde, and maybe for herself in some ways. But Piro doesn't see her as Miho for a single second. That is part of his confusion, and why he's not actively responding to her.
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Re: [1510] I guess I'll have to stop...

Post by Roamer » Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:47 am

Teddy-Werebear wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:52 am
"F-bomb the sheets Kimiko! Lets go!!" Should be what Piro says or at least thinks right now. And I do not mean leave this sanctuary of sin. When in Rome... throw your hands in the air like you just don' care and join the Bacchanal with great abandon!
If he is not reaching up to gently pull her face down for more kissing in the next comic it will stymie me into mystification.
OH NO! Wait... :ph34r:
Scene change... :ninja:
OF COURSE! :P
While I appreciate the artistry Fred's using to build suspense for the coming confrontation - sometimes you just need to go with it.
Stop overthinking everything.
Live in and for the moment.
Enjoy life with the partner you've got to share that moment with.
paarfi wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:55 am
cidjen wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:30 am
seeing that Piro is not keen to go back to his 'old Miho flame'. See what darrin, iffy and I was discussing around 1509...
While I appreciate iffy and darrin's discussion, I have to disagree. Piro has been hurt, but he still oves Miho and they are (slowly and haltingly) finding their way back together because that is what they both want.

On the other hand, I think these last two comics have shown something that is still missing from Piro and Miho's relationship. Yes the smexytimes, but even more so just a sense of fun. Piro and Miho are intimate in other ways, but have not yet got over the hurt and lack of understanding yet, and that makes fun difficult. I hope that will come. Love can be many things, but it kinda sucks without a little joy.
Something to this, maybe. One question that hasn't been addressed: Now that Miho's heart isn't going to kill her the next time she gets an overenthusiastic hug, does she have a normal lifespan? Or is she truly undying now? If the fans are what keeps her going, then either they'll lose interest and she reverts to a normal girl, or she gains new fans that like her as the eternal undying one - and probable zombie queen.

The first allows for a relationship. The second would be hell. I think this might be part of why the Ninja got the kill order; Whoever issued it is terrified of the second possibility and they want to revert the change while they still can. If the fans go this way and force her into that role, then MT really has been a tragedy all this time, and she'll welcome her assassins when her future is clear.

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Re: [1510] I guess I'll have to stop...

Post by arimareiji » Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:54 am

paarfi wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:40 am
Kimiko's performance is for the horde, and maybe for herself in some ways. But Piro doesn't see her as Miho for a single second. That is part of his confusion, and why he's not actively responding to her.
My apologies to every woman who's been unfairly judged as "immoral" the moment she asserts herself sexually...
but should we call this strange melange of Kimiko and Miho "Kimiho"?
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Roamer wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:47 am
While I appreciate the artistry Fred's using to build suspense for the coming confrontation - sometimes you just need to go with it.
Stop overthinking everything.
Live in and for the moment.
Enjoy life with the partner you've got to share that moment with.
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Re: [1510] I guess I'll have to stop...

Post by paarfi » Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:59 am

arimareiji wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:54 am
should we call this strange melange of Kimiko and Miho "Kimiho"?
Yeah, we had settled on that back when Kimiko first put on the toner. I had suggested Mimiko at first (because mimic), but everybody else seemed to like Kimiho better, which is good too.

But now it looks like she's going to wash out the toner and stop the act, so back to plan old adorable Kimiko.
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Re: [1510] I guess I'll have to stop...

Post by cidjen » Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:08 am

paarfi wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:40 am
cidjen wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:35 am
see how Piro is totally non-responsive when Kimiko enacts her version of what she thinks Miho is feeling and what Miho would do
Kimiko's performance is for the horde, and maybe for herself in some ways. But Piro doesn't see her as Miho for a single second. That is part of his confusion, and why he's not actively responding to her.
He does, although briefly - see panel 8 in [1460] :)
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Re: [1510] I guess I'll have to stop...

Post by arimareiji » Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:22 am

paarfi wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:59 am
arimareiji wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:54 am
should we call this strange melange of Kimiko and Miho "Kimiho"?
Yeah, we had settled on that back when Kimiko first put on the toner. I had suggested Mimiko at first (because mimic), but everybody else seemed to like Kimiho better, which is good too.

But now it looks like she's going to wash out the toner and stop the act, so back to plan old adorable Kimiko.
It makes sense and it sounds natural, but it has an unfortunate sound to it in this situation given that Kimiko has been shortened by some to Kimi (which isn't unnatural, given that -ko is a stereotypical ending for a woman's name... i.e. the infamous "Larko").
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Re: [1510] I guess I'll have to stop...

Post by cidjen » Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:47 am

Roamer wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:47 am

The first allows for a relationship. The second would be hell. I think this might be part of why the Ninja got the kill order; Whoever issued it is terrified of the second possibility and they want to revert the change while they still can. If the fans go this way and force her into that role, then MT really has been a tragedy all this time, and she'll welcome her assassins when her future is clear.
For the first to happen, I think Sight project must change the ending to 'happy ever after' or make the 'bad ending' so awful that no one likes it. (and Dom's funding it, and Kimiko and Piro will be working on it..., so wonder which one will it be...) (also the conversation in [371] arcs to that!)
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Re: [1510] I guess I'll have to stop...

Post by FreezingFire » Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:50 am

I can't help but notice that in panel 5 Kimiko's "gown" was tied in the back, but a couple panels later it's falling off like it's untied. Also, Kimiko doesn't even seem to notice. Did Piro just develop ninja skills?

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Re: [1510] I guess I'll have to stop...

Post by Old_Gray_One » Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:16 am

Teddy-Werebear wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:52 am
"F-bomb the sheets Kimiko! Lets go!!" Should be what Piro says or at least thinks right now. And I do not mean leave this sanctuary of sin. When in Rome... throw your hands in the air like you just don' care and join the Bacchanal with great abandon!
If he is not reaching up to gently pull her face down for more kissing in the next comic it will stymie me into mystification.
OH NO! Wait... :ph34r:
Scene change... :ninja:
OF COURSE! :P
I don't think so. Remember, it's Piro, he'll figure out a way to c*ck block himself.

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Re: [1510] I guess I'll have to stop...

Post by cidjen » Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:51 am

FreezingFire wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:50 am
I can't help but notice that in panel 5 Kimiko's "gown" was tied in the back, but a couple panels later it's falling off like it's untied. Also, Kimiko doesn't even seem to notice. Did Piro just develop ninja skills?
It's more like, the fabric is flapping all around with motion, moving up and down, catching on Piro's clothing etc. (remember the gown was fitting Miho, and Kimiko has smaller breasts so it comes loose more often especially at the back, and she also is breathing in and out so the space is changing) and at the last and second to last panel, it's actually unbuttoned itself up front (the buttons are a darn nuisance ;) )
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Re: [1510] I guess I'll have to stop...

Post by darrin » Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:43 am

Yowza.

Huh, I had been referring from time to time in previous threads to Kimiko wearing "two" articles of clothing; had not taken into account the possibility of the strapless. But we are pretty much back down to two at this point so no worries. 8-)

EDIT: (Duh, stupid me, it is visible right there in 1456. :roll:)
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Re: [1510] I guess I'll have to stop...

Post by Sackett » Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:57 am

Umm... is everyone really just accepting Kimiko's claim of "acting" as Miho at face value?

My first thought was that this was Kimiko's excuse to distance herself and protect herself emotionally about Piro's reluctance and hesitation to do more with her.

In fact I thought that was so obvious that I didn't think it needed to be said.

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Re: [1510] I guess I'll have to stop...

Post by cidjen » Thu Feb 01, 2018 12:21 pm

Sackett wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:57 am
Umm... is everyone really just accepting Kimiko's claim of "acting" as Miho at face value?

My first thought was that this was Kimiko's excuse to distance herself and protect herself emotionally about Piro's reluctance and hesitation to do more with her.

In fact I thought that was so obvious that I didn't think it needed to be said.
Maybe, but see where his reluctance comes from ? His reluctance pretty clearly comes from seeing 'too much Miho', while knowing it's not Miho he is rubbing against now (as well as from having a weird day and being tired of it, as has been said above) - he knows Kimiko would not appreciate him jumping at an image of his former flame that she's channeling ...
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Re: [1510] I guess I'll have to stop...

Post by Mamma Peach » Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:19 pm

Really it would be nice of Piro to say he likes her better as herself anyway. (And they both need showers and such.) A little real appreciation goes a lot farther than physically romantic stuff, especially with people who already have self doubts.

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Re: [1510] I guess I'll have to stop...

Post by Tiger » Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:27 pm

Piro, this is where you grab her by the hips so she doesn't get up, bend her down to you and start making out. Stop being a puss.

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Re: [1510] I guess I'll have to stop...

Post by darrin » Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:36 pm

paarfi wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:55 am
I have to disagree. Piro [...] he still loves Miho [...]
May I ask what that belief is based on? Gut feeling, or hints Fred has dropped, or something from specific strips? If the first two, that's none of my business of course. But if the third, I would really appreciate being shown what I've missed, in particular what would outweigh the apparent counterclaims in 1358 (that's from Mugi, so obviously not as strong as if it came from Miho, but I judge Mugi to know Miho better than Yuki does) and 1216 (in which Piro seems extremely clear and explicit to me).

I am not trying to stir anything up here, but am honestly curious, and sincerely trying to ask as Harry Potter would: "I ask the fundamental question of rationality: Why do you believe what you believe? What do you think you know and how do you think you know it?"

EDIT:
@paarfi: Thanks very much, appreciate the detailed response. As you said of mine, I still disagree, but I have a much clearer idea of what I'm disagreeing with now, so, cheers. :D
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Re: [1510] I guess I'll have to stop...

Post by paarfi » Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:27 pm

darrin wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:36 pm
May I ask what that belief is based on?
Well, I try very hard not to be party to inside info regarding the story, including this kind of thing. This is me interpreting the story as best I can.

For the pro-case for why I think Piro and Miho love each other, I'd point you to madbadgers tumblr posts. I think he lays out the case very nicely. This one would be the most relevant:
http://docfuture.tumblr.com/post/306496 ... and-future

Regarding 1358, I think you're misinterpreting things. Mugi knows Miho's story, and how Miho always ends up dead and alone before she can find love. She's seen it too; it's implied with Mugi and Kenji that this isn't their first time through Miho's story cycle. Mugi knows that the story can't be changed, they can only try to nudge it in minor ways. So she *knows* that Miho can't be in love with Piro because that would be impossible per the inevitable fate of the Miho's story.

Yuki therefore comes across to Mugi as someone who has no idea what she is talking about. Mugi is the experienced one, and she sees Yuki as living in false hopes that are doomed to be disappointed. Miho herself would have said the same. The story always wins.

Except that it's not going to win this time. Yuki is right -- Piro and Miho do love each other. Miho doesn't *have* to die -- Piro did CPR and got her a pacemaker. As Kenji said, this time is different [1227]. The real Miho has loved before [1402], and the real Miho is in love again, this time with Piro.

In the end Mugi saying that can't be in love with Piro is almost the same as people sayign the Cubs can't win the World Series. It sure seems like an iron law of nature that it can never happen -- until it actually does.


Regarding 1216, that's Piro trying to convince himself. There is a tendency to want things to be clear-cut. Piro either loves Miho and therefore wants to get back together with her, or he does not love her and therefore should go with Kimiko. But things are more complex than that here. Piro loves her, but she also hurt him very badly 2 years ago, and he still doesn't really understand why. He understood even less when he was talking to Kimiko in that comic.
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Re: [1510] I guess I'll have to stop...

Post by GreyWolfe » Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:00 pm

Kimi has a touch of the manic overly-attached girlfriend about her. Not sure if that is the 'acting', or the fact that they are both rolling down a hill here and not much is going to stop them falling.
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Re: [1510] I guess I'll have to stop...

Post by arimareiji » Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:23 pm

Go, MTSD! Most movie theatres don't manage to get this much projection going on. (^_~)
GreyWolfe wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:00 pm
Kimi has a touch of the manic overly-attached girlfriend about her. Not sure if that is the 'acting', or the fact that they are both rolling down a hill here and not much is going to stop them falling.
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Re: [1510] I guess I'll have to stop...

Post by Ningen » Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:11 pm

arimareiji wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:23 pm
Did someone say... competition?
Just as well she doesn't know how to hold a knife.
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Re: [1510] I guess I'll have to stop...

Post by Teddy-Werebear » Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:16 pm

Old_Gray_One wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:16 am
I don't think so. Remember, it's Piro, he'll figure out a way to c*ck block himself.

He does not have to do anything hardly anything, just let Kimiko take the helm and sail that ship thru the night right into port and slip it into a safe, little birth.
Piro's penchant for inaction is his best ally towards both of them getting much needed satisfaction.
:lol:

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Re: [1510] I guess I'll have to stop...

Post by GreyWolfe » Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:17 pm

arimareiji wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:23 pm
Did someone say... competition?
Suspiciously close
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