[1583] the heartbreak of other people's luck

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Re: [1583] the heartbreak of other people's luck

Post by BetaCygnus » Wed Aug 19, 2020 8:08 am

Teddy-Werebear wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:59 pm
They both tell me that Miho and Moeria are far bigger threats.
So… :o

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Re: [1583] the heartbreak of other people's luck

Post by Teddy-Werebear » Thu Aug 20, 2020 12:09 am

BetaCygnus wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 8:08 am
Teddy-Werebear wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:59 pm
They both tell me that Miho and Moeria are far bigger threats.
So… :o
You know... part of me wants to correct your misreading of what I wrote and the other part of does not want to be a killjoy.
Sooooo... you have fun envisioning me as a Teddy-WereCarebear, Beta...
...
Why do I feel a little dirty saying that?

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Re: [1583] the heartbreak of other people's luck

Post by maldrul » Thu Aug 20, 2020 12:46 am

Teddy-Werebear wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 12:09 am
BetaCygnus wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 8:08 am
Teddy-Werebear wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:59 pm
They both tell me that Miho and Moeria are far bigger threats.
So… :o
You know... part of me wants to correct your misreading of what I wrote and the other part of does not want to be a killjoy.
Sooooo... you have fun envisioning me as a Teddy-WereCarebear, Beta...
...
Why do I feel a little dirty saying that?
c'mon, show us that adorable WereCareBear Stare, Teddy! ;>
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Re: [1583] the heartbreak of other people's luck

Post by Teddy-Werebear » Thu Aug 20, 2020 7:07 am

(Shoots Mal in the face with his "Miho Hate Beam" projected from his fuzzy belly.)

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Re: [1583] the heartbreak of other people's luck

Post by Invisigoth » Thu Aug 20, 2020 1:16 pm

Miho is Bean Sidhe, harbinger of Death. There is no evil inherent in her and many would welcome her song as it promises relief from suffering

Piro, being Anui, has deep connections with the Northern Islands from whence our kitsune clan originates. I am wondering if he doesn't have a much stronger connection to them than we've seen so far

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Re: [1583] the heartbreak of other people's luck

Post by darrin » Thu Aug 20, 2020 2:45 pm

Teddy-Werebear wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:59 pm
darrin wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 1:39 pm
Perhaps she does. And many are destroyed that need non-destroyedness. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out being destroyed in judgement.
I trust my nose and my guts, D. They both tell me that Miho and Moeria are far bigger threats.
Dude, you're arguing with frigging GANDALF there. The point is, unless you have the ability to un-destroy folks on those occasions when your nose and guts are actually wrong, you need to keep your itchy finger _outside_ the trigger guard.
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Re: [1583] the heartbreak of other people's luck

Post by Eraden » Thu Aug 20, 2020 4:32 pm

Okayyyy, I have to ask the following question: why does Teddy think that Miho is the fount of all evil? I mean, she does seem to be occasionally prickly. She also comes of as being a bit of a schemer. Evil, though? I just can't see it. In the early part of the comic there was some hi-jinks going on but it didn't look like she was evil (except in Largo's eyes). I am really curious about this because Teddy seems to be so darned insistent on this notion. Does anyone have any information that could justify this belief?

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Re: [1583] the heartbreak of other people's luck

Post by paarfi » Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:02 pm

Eraden wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 4:32 pm
why does Teddy think that Miho is the fount of all evil?
It's been Teddy's schtick, err firmly held opinion for as long as I've been on the forum. He's the one constant here. Don't ever change, Teddy. :ph34r:
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Re: [1583] the heartbreak of other people's luck

Post by maldrul » Thu Aug 20, 2020 6:09 pm

Eraden wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 4:32 pm
Okayyyy, I have to ask the following question: why does Teddy think that Miho is the fount of all evil? I mean, she does seem to be occasionally prickly. She also comes of as being a bit of a schemer. Evil, though? I just can't see it. In the early part of the comic there was some hi-jinks going on but it didn't look like she was evil (except in Largo's eyes). I am really curious about this because Teddy seems to be so darned insistent on this notion. Does anyone have any information that could justify this belief?
Disclaimer: All information given below is the opinion of the author of this post ( and remember that I am a kitsune )

The first appearance of Miho in the comic was a result of Largo's discovery of the Necrowombicon deep in the sewers of MegaTokyo. That Miho was one of the many representations of the real Character Analog Miho that Yuki "stole" from the Analog Support facility hidden within the hospital. So the first Miho was supposedly Dark Goth Magical Girl Miho brought back from a failed game. This iteration could be viewed as evil ( and was marked as such by Largo ), but IMHO was simply a characterization of a trope of a smart, acerbic, somewhat misanthropic teenage girl ( think Daria ) with superhuman traits.

That Miho came to realize that her story had somehow changed from the previous incarnation and she began to try to play her character differently ( saving Kimiko from Ed's killball and allowing herself to be destroyed by same to take herself out of the game so that Piro would be able to get to the "Good End" with Kimi ) but before that she couldn't help playing her character with Largo and Piro, who she saw as the protagonists of her "game" (she also had figured out that Largo and Piro were the players behind the only two End Games characters that she could not wrest control from as well as being the downfall of her End Games character ).

She did do some mean things as that character like tease an otaku boy in MegaGamers by trying to get him to buy a game CD for her and make a scene at MegaGamers with Piro in front of a crowd of Erika fanbois that implied that he had date-raped her. So it is all in your perception of what constitutes "Evil" vs "Mean".

Considering the backstory ( that may or may not be true ) of the "real" Miho, it would appear her treatment of Piro in their OOC messaging interaction as players of End Games, that she was not trying to blow him off just to be mean, she was trying to save his life because she knew that anyone "playing" with her and trying to get her to love them would end up dead. Which means that she does really care for Piro.
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Re: [1583] the heartbreak of other people's luck

Post by Teddy-Werebear » Thu Aug 20, 2020 9:12 pm

maldrul wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 6:09 pm
Disclaimer: poppycock
They words of a Miho thrall can never be fully trusted.

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Re: [1583] the heartbreak of other people's luck

Post by Invisigoth » Thu Aug 20, 2020 10:56 pm

paarfi wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:02 pm
Eraden wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 4:32 pm
why does Teddy think that Miho is the fount of all evil?
It's been Teddy's schtick, err firmly held opinion for as long as I've been on the forum. He's the one constant here. Don't ever change, Teddy. :ph34r:
Don't encourage him/her/it

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Re: [1583] the heartbreak of other people's luck

Post by Yl33 D4 N00b » Fri Aug 21, 2020 11:50 am

You know, for almost half of MT, Miho was Not A Nice Person. Is she redeemed now? Probably, but I can understand TW waiting For The Other Shoe To Drop.(If there is one)

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Re: [1583] the heartbreak of other people's luck

Post by BetaCygnus » Fri Aug 21, 2020 12:17 pm


I always thought that Teddy simply agrees with Largo’s opinion of Miho.
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Re: [1583] the heartbreak of other people's luck

Post by Invisigoth » Fri Aug 21, 2020 3:58 pm

Yl33 D4 N00b wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 11:50 am
You know, for almost half of MT, Miho was Not A Nice Person. Is she redeemed now? Probably, but I can understand TW waiting For The Other Shoe To Drop.(If there is one)
If you understand Miho then you realize that everyone she loves and gets close to will die, usually horribly. She even said that the worst thing she did was allow the people who thought that they could use her to use her.

What she did to Piro and by extension Largo was done because she did care for them and loved them.

Maybe now her story is changing, Yaku is going to see to that

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Re: [1583] the heartbreak of other people's luck

Post by HakuRyoku » Fri Aug 21, 2020 4:47 pm

You know.... sometimes people do bad things for good reasons.... and sometimes people also do 'good' things for bad reasons.... there is a reason the yin and yang is colored and designed the way it is... sometimes not everything is so cut and dry.
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Re: [1583] the heartbreak of other people's luck

Post by Roamer » Thu Aug 27, 2020 3:13 am

Teddy-Werebear wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:58 pm
Roamer wrote:
Sat Aug 15, 2020 1:03 am
If Megumi has fully manfested and her future mindset reflects her emotions during the manifestation, I suspect you'll be proven wrong on this one, Teddy. Depending on the source, the power range of a 9T* can be pretty terrifying, and she's got no experience in controlling them. They may need Miho's help to keep Megumi from wrecking MT in this mental state. I very much hope not, but I can't recall a single good piece of luck she's had up to now. And everyone has a breaking point.

* I am hereby declaring that '9T' will be the short version of 'nine-tail' in the forums hereafter. Because shortcut.

Some of the legends say a that when a kitsune grows a ninth tail, their hair changes color to silver, white or gold. Would be an interesting look for her.
You do not f34r teh olde 3v1l enough... this could lead to your undoing.
Oh, I fear the olde evil well enough. But there's considerable danger in a young new power that doesn't understand the harm they can do. Miho is old, and has come close to destroying the city before and had that go very badly. While she might bend it into a pretzel for fun, I doubt she wants to break it. But a nine tail Kitsune? From the legends she could destroy the city without realizing she's going that far, and likely in more than one way.

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Re: [1583] the heartbreak of other people's luck

Post by Roamer » Thu Aug 27, 2020 3:46 am

paarfi wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:02 pm
Eraden wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 4:32 pm
why does Teddy think that Miho is the fount of all evil?
It's been Teddy's schtick, err firmly held opinion for as long as I've been on the forum. He's the one constant here. Don't ever change, Teddy. :ph34r:
Teddy is our north star, always unchanging. Even Fred acknowledges this.

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Re: [1583] the heartbreak of other people's luck

Post by mistersaxon » Thu Aug 27, 2020 5:49 am

Eraden wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 4:32 pm
Okayyyy, I have to ask the following question: why does Teddy think that Miho is the fount of all evil? I mean, she does seem to be occasionally prickly. She also comes of as being a bit of a schemer. Evil, though? I just can't see it. In the early part of the comic there was some hi-jinks going on but it didn't look like she was evil (except in Largo's eyes). I am really curious about this because Teddy seems to be so darned insistent on this notion. Does anyone have any information that could justify this belief?
Largo has identified her as a species of Undead so, naturally, she must be Evil because that's how the games he likes all work. For Piro she is a Schoolgirl so automatically a potential romantic heroine and therefore Good - or at least saveable (one reason I believe Largo distrusts Piro's games is because of that automatic alignment of Schoolgirl and Romantic Target). Teddy is firmly in the shoot-em-up camp and agrees with Largo. He may continue to hold this belief even if Largo changes his mind, but may change his mind if Miho is released from her story cycle, although that could mean her destruction.

Not only that, but she appeared after Largo discovered and opened the Necrowombicon - the MT version of the ultimate evil grimoire (and what may well have been a throwaway joke from the Early Period of MT has now become a story core concept). Let's assume, for the lulz, that the Necrowombicon is Miho's Original Story: it can't be destroyed - it's an archetype, not a thing* - but it can be overwritten, if enough people believe the new version. I think this is what Yaku is attempting to do.

*It is the intersection of a meme, if you will - an idea with no physical dimension but an existence purely in time - with a 3-dimensional world-slice. It manifests as a book because that is how we can perceive it for now, but, given enough time it could be a web page or an e-book, a holocron or a Rosetta Stone (It Wants To Be Read in contrast to https://megatokyo.com/strip/1133). If it were old enough it would be a "spirit" that possessed a storyteller as "inspiration" so that it could be told, but it seems to post-date oral history.
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Re: [1583] the heartbreak of other people's luck

Post by darrin » Thu Aug 27, 2020 11:18 am

Roamer wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 3:46 am
Teddy is our north star, always unchanging. Even Fred acknowledges this.
I submit that the north star is useful because it actually, you know, shows which direction is north.
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Re: [1583] the heartbreak of other people's luck

Post by Roamer » Fri Aug 28, 2020 3:33 am

darrin wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 11:18 am
Roamer wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 3:46 am
Teddy is our north star, always unchanging. Even Fred acknowledges this.
I submit that the north star is useful because it actually, you know, shows which direction is north.
The north star was useful because it was a fixed reference point for navigation. It pointing north is convenient, but for navigation it could have pointed South-Southeast and it would have been just as useful.

And in the past, Teddy was right in that Miho was at that time the clear and present danger. Given that she just destroyed most of a wing of a hospital, and caused the much scarier accidental destruction of an entire school she is still a potential danger. Threat assessment is about potential for destruction. Miho is friendly right now, but who knows about tomorrow? As a hypothetical, what if that heart operation ends up causing permanent damage and she blamed Piro?

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Re: [1583] the heartbreak of other people's luck

Post by Invisigoth » Fri Aug 28, 2020 6:37 am

This entire strip is a series of very powerful images of Megumi.

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Re: [1583] the heartbreak of other people's luck

Post by darrin » Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:19 am

Roamer wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 3:33 am
The north star was useful because it was a fixed reference point for navigation.
The important point is that it gave information about the external world, as opposed to "Whatever direction I am facing must be north, because my nose and my gut never steer me wrong."
And in the past, Teddy was right in that Miho was at that time the clear and present danger. Given that she just destroyed most of a wing of a hospital,
[...] she is still a potential danger
Lots of people would be "right" to call Miho a "potential danger". I would never argue against calling her a potential danger. Miho being a "potential danger" is not a specific prediction of TWB's model, but rather that is she is intrinsically and irredeemably evil, that all of the events of "danger and destruction" around her are deliberate and of malicious intent.

Pointing to a particular incident in which destruction took place and singling TWB out as being "right" in such a case is ignoring the core elements of what TWB himself is claiming to be right about: not the destruction per se but the evil and malicious intent behind it. This is actually worse than a "stopped clock is right twice a day" fallacy: not only should the model be considered to make a failed prediction every time Miho is _not_ involved in a destructive (or otherwise "evil") event, it should fail in a case like this if she was motivated not by desire to destroy, but by panic and terror and (assuming she was telling the truth to Kimiko about her backstory) a desire to reduce the threat to surrounding people (i.e. cause superficial damage to a hospital corridor as opposed to sticking around and watching people who "love" her get hurt or killed).

Am I 100% sure that she was telling the truth to Kimiko, and that she was terrified rather than malicious in the hospital? Of course not, I'd say 85% - 95% or thereabouts. But the situation isn't symmetric; I don't have a model that claims Miho is "intrinsically and incorruptibly good", so I don't need the numbers to be 100%. More important (at least in my opinion), my assessment of her is subject to being updated as new events unfold in the comic; there are lots and lots and lots of things that could easily make me realize, "Hmm, this would suggest Miho is worse than I had been giving her credit for." Is the same true of TWB's "model"? It's fine to have a "schtick", but if the schtick is independent of anything Fred himself could do in the comic, then personally I don't get it.
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Re: [1583] the heartbreak of other people's luck

Post by Initial B » Fri Aug 28, 2020 3:08 pm

Poor Megumi, I feel bad about her luck with love, but I don't know if that angst means she is going to destructive bender. I do get the feel we're going to see a lot of plot advancement chapter.

I have some doubts whether Megumi is 9 tails. That little bit of visible tail that pokes out from the tail 3rd from the bottom could be part of the same tail if it just curved in an 'S' shape. Still, probably a lot of power even if it's only 8 tails. Can't help but wonder if this thirteenth chapter is going to be the last.

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Re: [1583] the heartbreak of other people's luck

Post by Eraden » Fri Aug 28, 2020 4:07 pm

Initial B wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 3:08 pm
Poor Megumi, I feel bad about her luck with love, but I don't know if that angst means she is going to destructive bender. I do get the feel we're going to see a lot of plot advancement chapter.

I have some doubts whether Megumi is 9 tails. That little bit of visible tail that pokes out from the tail 3rd from the bottom could be part of the same tail if it just curved in an 'S' shape. Still, probably a lot of power even if it's only 8 tails. Can't help but wonder if this thirteenth chapter is going to be the last.
Look at the base of her spine. She clearly has 9 tails. There can be no doubt. She has just been escalated to the top tier in the Megatokyo universe.

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Re: [1583] the heartbreak of other people's luck

Post by piro » Sat Aug 29, 2020 2:45 am

Ningen 2 wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:08 am
On another note, I hope Fred decides to count threat assessment as this chapter's omake so we can press right ahead with the story.
Yes, actually :) Fact is... some of the original stuff that was Megumi's night out was SUPPOSED to be the Omake for this chapter. Then it became what it is and got included in the chapter. I'm going to do one more TTDP then get cracking on the next chapter.

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