Welcome to the new MegaTokyo Forums! The old forums are available (in read-only mode) at http://archive.forums.megatokyo.com.

[1562] The only thing I'm ever able to do

Moderators: Invisigoth, chemi

Sackett
Posts: 95
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:19 pm

Re: [1562] The only thing I'm ever able to do

Post by Sackett » Wed Aug 28, 2019 12:31 am

Dark Magical Girls are (almost) never "really" evil. Misunderstood, abused, cursed. There is always something that allows the Dark Magical GIrl to be saved - even when it appears hopeless.

Was Sailor Saturn really evil? (Remember that she's probably the ur example of the Dark Magical Girl).

Teddy-Werebear
Posts: 233
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:19 pm
Location: WV

Re: [1562] The only thing I'm ever able to do

Post by Teddy-Werebear » Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:33 am

maldrul wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:40 pm
I am a bit confused. In 'Girl Phase', Magical Moe-bo used a magic croquet mallet to punish evil most severely. The real Moeko has a magic wand and wants to save the "evil" Bad Magical Girl FEZ from Ireland by giving her life. Does that mean the Bad Magical Girl isn't *really* evil, just misunderstood?
No need to respond, Mr Werebear, we all know your opinion on the subject. ;>
And so few of you heed my wise warnings. This has terrible consequences going forward.
and using a were-bear to whap-her-out too... that is down-right mean, girl...
Negative Ghostrider... that was some sort of magically animated stuffed bear or a small bear altered by sorcery into an intelligent animal familiar.

User avatar
BetaCygnus
Posts: 169
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:19 pm
Location: Veenendaal, NL

Re: [1562] The only thing I'm ever able to do

Post by BetaCygnus » Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:36 am

So… Largo has Erika, and Erika has Moeko’s wand… and a clear cut mission.

Way to go, Fred! I didn’t see this coming at all — but that’s nothing new, heheh.

=)
— Member № 48735 · February 13, 2006 —

User avatar
mistersaxon
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:19 pm
Location: Thame, UK
Contact:

Re: [1562] The only thing I'm ever able to do

Post by mistersaxon » Wed Aug 28, 2019 4:31 am

Sackett wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 12:31 am
Dark Magical Girls are (almost) never "really" evil. Misunderstood, abused, cursed. There is always something that allows the Dark Magical GIrl to be saved - even when it appears hopeless.

Was Sailor Saturn really evil? (Remember that she's probably the ur example of the Dark Magical Girl).
There's the whole of Darkness Rainbow in Invaders of the Ryoukojima. Some of them are plain evil but mostly ... not. And even the ones with body counts in the dozens seem like they could be saved. Let's face it - if a Magical Girl isn't going to go all out to save another Magical Girl who's "fallen into darkness" then when is she going to?
Yea, verily: Who is that, running on the steppes! It is Sax, clutching buzzsaw hand extensions! He howls homicidally:
"I'm seriously going to pound you into the fast lane!!!"

Oh, yeah, I wrote Ping some backstory once.

User avatar
paarfi
Super Mod
Super Mod
Posts: 598
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2017 5:32 pm
Location: south-central Pennsylvania

Re: [1562] The only thing I'm ever able to do

Post by paarfi » Wed Aug 28, 2019 7:14 am

Selvius wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:03 pm
Player Moeko has left the game.
Yeah. I THINK we'll find that Moeko is still there in bed, alive, and in a coma. It's just her talking to Erika via their story connection and whatnot that is over. Maybe her passing the torch (or the wand) made her unable to keep doing that. Maybe she'd finished saying what she wanted to say. But I think from Largo's perspective she still looks and is the same way she's been since they came in the room. It's only through Erika's reactions that he sees that something more is going on.
Proud owner of kendermouse's 500th post.
Lean and slippered forum loon

Roamer
Posts: 147
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:24 pm

Re: [1562] The only thing I'm ever able to do

Post by Roamer » Wed Aug 28, 2019 7:22 am

Teddy-Werebear wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:33 am
maldrul wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:40 pm
I am a bit confused. In 'Girl Phase', Magical Moe-bo used a magic croquet mallet to punish evil most severely. The real Moeko has a magic wand and wants to save the "evil" Bad Magical Girl FEZ from Ireland by giving her life. Does that mean the Bad Magical Girl isn't *really* evil, just misunderstood?
No need to respond, Mr Werebear, we all know your opinion on the subject. ;>
And so few of you heed my wise warnings. This has terrible consequences going forward.
Within your own specialization you provide wisdom, Teddy. When you stray outside the 'magical girl, please use caution' zone you can sound just a tad paranoid.

Roamer
Posts: 147
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:24 pm

Re: [1562] The only thing I'm ever able to do

Post by Roamer » Wed Aug 28, 2019 7:22 am

cidjen wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:26 pm
Whoa hold your horses peoples...

you assume that what Moeko says is true, right? Miho was the Bad Magical Girl? That is right out of 'she said/she said' (edit sorry been looking for a word for a long time) fallacy... You assume that, just because she's the miserable one that spent most her life in bed unable to move or feel her body?

Granted, no villain(ess) will ever call themselves 'bad', right? We had that,when Miho called the existence that destroyed Kotone, a 'monstrous' one.

But in the 'near death experience' pocket world, it was Moeko, who was hostile to Miho, when Miho was suffering...

Hostile attitude, taunting, forcing out, calling to her senses...

and using a were-bear to whap-her-out too... that is down-right mean, girl...

Now I would not call what Miho became a 'good' existence, but I have a hunch, they're both not-good.

After all, the good-stability representative holds tabs on both. (or what we assume TPCD is just because they try keeping chaos at bay)

Only difference is, that someone portrayed Moeko as the 'guardian of the purity and justice', but what if that is just.... a spin?

And now, Moeko wants Erika to 'save' Kotone/Miho?

I am starting to have trouble believing that...

(edit) p.s. i envision Largo's going to need tranzl33t pretty soon, as Moeko / Magical Moe-bo has not been translated into english yet...
Even though we are now seeing Moeko portrayed in a sympathetic light, this doesn't mean she's good. After ten years trapped inside her own body, psychosis seems more likely than not....which places her neatly in the 'not evil but cursed' zone. Her giving Erika a literal quest to complete changes the onus from 'saving' Moeko to completing the quest in her stead. So, a quest from someone likely cursed/insane. This doesn't mean the quest is a bad one. But it does mean that it needs to be scrutinized very carefully. Like that wand she's now carrying, a quest like this can be at least as dangerous to the user as anyone standing in your way.

User avatar
Ningen 2
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:15 pm
Location: Location, Location

Re: [1562] The only thing I'm ever able to do

Post by Ningen 2 » Wed Aug 28, 2019 7:51 am

There is a lot which I think needs to be sorted out. The apparent SD consensus that Miho=Kotone just does not hang together. All of that Irish girl story was cast as "what if..." by Miho, and IMHO was a way to get her own self-dramatized fantasy backstory into play to gain sympathy from Kimiko. Why am I so convinced? Consider the story tropes. Kotone is not a poor little dying girl. Who is? Moeko.

Consider the Irish connection. That does not have to come from the load of tripe which Miho was trying to project. If she was playing the bad magical girl, she could have learned some Irish for that background. Even if the character never spoke, there might well have been some portrayal of her inner thoughts (hence having an actress), in fact that may well have been necessary for plot exposition purposes.

Next we have Moeko's interaction with not-quite-dying(again) Miho. Is this coming from Moeko, or is it yet another projection from the Queen of self-dramatization? It sounds to me much more like Miho's inner demons speaking than Moe-Bo.

I would suggest that Miho quite literally tried to take over the lead on Girl Phase, which was huge at the time. Her personality was so different that the fans rebelled and rioted, and thus they nearly lost MegaTokyo. Mo Dhia!

I'm sure there are plenty of holes it that, but the I think it is time to go back and thoroughly review the SD canon. It just doesn't hold water any more.
Image Ningen pity unfortunate individual.

Invisigoth
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 546
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:19 pm

Re: [1562] The only thing I'm ever able to do

Post by Invisigoth » Wed Aug 28, 2019 7:53 am

The Irish bad girl is Miho’s representation in Girl Phase and is probably much closer to representing her true story than any of her other representations that were approved by Stability

User avatar
Ningen 2
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:15 pm
Location: Location, Location

Re: [1562] The only thing I'm ever able to do

Post by Ningen 2 » Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:01 am

Yes.

Miho's "roles" are always confusing because her trope can be realized in a story without her having any direct involvement. In this case I'm suggesting she did get on to the project, either as a step up from the Irish girl role or as a new recruit for the lead once Erika quit.
Image Ningen pity unfortunate individual.

Invisigoth
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 546
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:19 pm

Re: [1562] The only thing I'm ever able to do

Post by Invisigoth » Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:11 am

aww heck, if Miho tried to run a spinoff of Girl Phase based on the Irish Bad Girl and herself as the VA.....

Rapierman
Posts: 145
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:19 pm
Location: Austin, TX
Contact:

Re: [1562] The only thing I'm ever able to do

Post by Rapierman » Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:10 pm

I came to a sudden realization:

If Miho is the bad magical girl from "Girl Phase" that Moeko wants to save (and the signs clearly point to this now), then this may require two voice actresses. Erika still has to play Moeko because that's who she's tied to, so Miho's going to need her own voice actress. Bring in Kimiko and the problem's solved.

However, this will also require some writing and some anime artistry. Either this will be a new chapter of "Girl Phase" or a total rewrite of the story so far. I can imagine that Piro can step in for the artistry, but the writer....

….no, I don't want to imagine Largo writing this. It would be a disaster as bad as the one that nearly destroyed MegaTokyo.
The Rapierman: Intelligence with a sword and a smile.

Invisigoth
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 546
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:19 pm

Re: [1562] The only thing I'm ever able to do

Post by Invisigoth » Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:16 pm

Yaku will write it, but someone is going to have to go to the Ninja compound to retrieve her glasses and bag first..

Rapierman
Posts: 145
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:19 pm
Location: Austin, TX
Contact:

Re: [1562] The only thing I'm ever able to do

Post by Rapierman » Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:35 pm

Invisigoth wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:16 pm
Yaku will write it, but someone is going to have to go to the Ninja compound to retrieve her glasses and bag first..
You sure? What's her qualifications?
The Rapierman: Intelligence with a sword and a smile.

User avatar
paarfi
Super Mod
Super Mod
Posts: 598
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2017 5:32 pm
Location: south-central Pennsylvania

Re: [1562] The only thing I'm ever able to do

Post by paarfi » Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:42 pm

Rapierman wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:35 pm
Invisigoth wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:16 pm
Yaku will write it, but someone is going to have to go to the Ninja compound to retrieve her glasses and bag first..
You sure? What's her qualifications?
Well, it helps that she's already started work on it [1516]. Though she may get some help from Sayuri, who's still friends with Erika and was one of the Girl Phase writers [1113].
Proud owner of kendermouse's 500th post.
Lean and slippered forum loon

Rapierman
Posts: 145
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:19 pm
Location: Austin, TX
Contact:

Re: [1562] The only thing I'm ever able to do

Post by Rapierman » Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:50 pm

paarfi wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:42 pm
Rapierman wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:35 pm
Invisigoth wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:16 pm
Yaku will write it, but someone is going to have to go to the Ninja compound to retrieve her glasses and bag first..
You sure? What's her qualifications?
Well, it helps that she's already started work on it [1516]. Though she may get some help from Sayuri, who's still friends with Erika and was one of the Girl Phase writers [1113].
Alright, that covers the writing part...

….as for getting back the glasses and bag, I do recall that they have a ninja on their side in the form of Junpei. The "Rule of Cool" and "Inverse Ninja Law" will apply.
The Rapierman: Intelligence with a sword and a smile.

Invisigoth
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 546
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:19 pm

Re: [1562] The only thing I'm ever able to do

Post by Invisigoth » Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:35 pm

Junpei may be in no position to help

User avatar
mistersaxon
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:19 pm
Location: Thame, UK
Contact:

Re: [1562] The only thing I'm ever able to do

Post by mistersaxon » Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:08 am

Invisigoth wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:35 pm
Junpei may be in no position to help
We don't know much about Junpei's current position...
Yea, verily: Who is that, running on the steppes! It is Sax, clutching buzzsaw hand extensions! He howls homicidally:
"I'm seriously going to pound you into the fast lane!!!"

Oh, yeah, I wrote Ping some backstory once.

User avatar
cidjen
Posts: 831
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:13 pm
Location: Too many to fit in this margin area
Contact:

Re: [1562] The only thing I'm ever able to do

Post by cidjen » Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:31 am

Sayuri could write it...
but I have a feeling, that Sayuri was the cause of why Moeko ended that way...
Something about the timescale of Sayuri's guest episode of MagiMoebo to when Moeko went into coma, is interesting.
Maybe Sayuri's involvement into Moeko's story spelled its premature end/suspension or the original author moving on (creative differences?), and Sayuri's view of the story was more Miho-like than Moeko? And now Sayuri is developing the story of Kotone/Miho.

(imagination barf warning)
Oh but what if Kimiko's outbutst towards Dom was dampened enough by promising her the job for Piro, enough to have her not quit the job? Either that, or she doesn't know Dom's behind the event that saved the game.

Initial B
Posts: 38
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:19 pm
Location: I'm Canadian, eh?

Re: [1562] The only thing I'm ever able to do

Post by Initial B » Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:52 am

Not sure if Moeko is really gone, could be similar to Obi-wan Kenobi. I think I'll just hold on and wait for more context next comic.

Largo's expression is interesting, like he's waiting for the other shoe to drop. Just a couple of strips earlier he was warning about "deep immersion into play can lead to a coma like state". I wonder what he's seeing right now and if Erika is just about to drop...

User avatar
darrin
Posts: 527
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:19 pm

Re: [1562] The only thing I'm ever able to do

Post by darrin » Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:42 pm

cidjen wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:26 pm
Whoa hold your horses peoples...

you assume that what Moeko says is true, right?
Can't speak for all the other horse-holders here, but, uh, no, no I don't.

It's quite possible this "bad Irish magical girl" was deliberately introduced into the Girl Phase story by Stability, or by someone who knew about (a version of) Miho through Stability. That's most certainly not the same thing as saying that Miho herself is a "bad magical girl." We already know from Ririka's "thin cute blond" representation that Stability will alter the representations provided to the public, in some cases drastically, when it suits their purposes. Assuming this brief comment (summarizing who knows how many actual episodes of the anime) to be directly relevant to Miho's actual character would be short-sighted at best.

Or, maybe Miho herself managed to slip this "representation" in. The mechanics would be similar to Stability influencing the actual author, but at the moment I can't imagine what would be her actual motive for doing so (other than taking the piss, which we've arguably seen quite a bit of from her over the years :lol:). So I'm not denying this outright as a possibility, just stating here that I would need to see a lot more in-comic evidence in one form or other before I'd start to consider it likely that it had happened let alone why.

The final possibility is the one I'm actually leaning toward at the moment, precisely because "lack of evidence" is pretty much what you'd expect to see in that case: the "bad Irish magical girl" element actually wormed itself into the story without conscious effort from Stability or any of the actual authors. Because of Analogues. (The brief description of "Sayuri's episode" didn't mention any bad magical girls at all, but rather a direct plot focus on Moeko/Moebo; so I would in any case tend to be skeptical of any direct involvement from Sayuri in all of this.) I've said this before but we've only had two uses of the word "Analogue" in the comic ever, and no concrete description of what they actually are or are capable of, beyond Ibara's "yadda yadda something stories something something." I know there are folks around who are gonna blame Miho (or now Moeko since she's shown up :lol:) for everything; I am still as convinced as I was when I first started reading MegaTokyo that things are more complicated than that, and by the time it all shakes out, blaming Miho will seem about as reasonable as blaming someone for splatting when someone else pushes them off a cliff.

Unrelated to the above, I am getting a kind of Harry Potter "the wand chooses its owner" vibe from the last panel. 8-) Moeko didn't give Erika the wand, she just let go of it.

And I like how the magic-suppressing Montauk ring popped right off. :lol:
<wand> The security settings appropriate to the previous user account have been deleted. Would you like to select new security settings at this time?
<Erika> Uhhh.... wut...
Avatar by Broken, I changed the book
My rescripts, now with little bits of commentary for each one

Invisigoth
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 546
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:19 pm

Re: [1562] The only thing I'm ever able to do

Post by Invisigoth » Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:24 pm

I'm of the opinion that many of the people in charge of Stability (if that's the proper way to view them) do not have a clear idea of what CA's like Miho are or what they are capable of. That would be why they used more easily controlled surrogates like Idol to manipulate the stories.

If as Miho has indicated Stability has attempted to warp and change her story to suit their own purposes then the story itself may be pushing back. Not because it's sentient or anything of the sort but because it's not being told as it is. Moeko as an element of Miho's story, with her being in a coma, would need balance and that comes in the form of the Irish exchange student who's a "bad girl" as well as being an MG.

When Erika goes and screws everything up with a self indulgent pity party over being dump by her dweeb fiance, BTW beautiful women don't handle being dumped very well, it would be the most natural thing in the world for Miho to have attempted to make things right at least from her point of view.

Under those circumstances Stability would have totally lost any control and Miho wouldn't have taken Horde reactions into account until it was too late.

User avatar
darrin
Posts: 527
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:19 pm

Re: [1562] The only thing I'm ever able to do

Post by darrin » Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:55 am

Invisigoth wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:24 pm
I'm of the opinion that many of the people in charge of Stability (if that's the proper way to view them) do not have a clear idea of what CA's like Miho are or what they are capable of.
Fred may very well have such a "clear idea" in mind, and is keeping the cards close to the chest so to speak, waiting until the appropriate time to start revealing things in-comic. Alternatively, he may not yet have such a clear idea, and is still in the process of shaking the tree to see what falls out. :lol: (That process has reportedly worked for some of the world's best authors, so I hope nobody interprets that possibility as intended in a critical way.)

In either case, it would absolutely make perfect sense narratively for Stability not to have an actual clue about Analogues, or certainly much less of a clue than they think they do. Trickling down to folks downstream like Ibara who obviously don't have much if any clue about what is actually going on but are more than happy to spout their theories on "analogues". :roll:
BTW beautiful women don't handle being dumped very well,
For the record the rest of us non-beautiful folks don't often handle it well either. :lol: But kidding aside, yes, it's pretty clear at least that things were in a great deal of flux at the time; whether Miho was actively trying to cause trouble (as Masamichi seems to be strongly implying that one time), or she was actively trying to help as you say (and I would tend to lean myself), or maybe the "story itself" was pushing in ways she didn't have direct control over... I think anyone dismissing any of those out of hand at this point is almost certainly jumping the gun.
Avatar by Broken, I changed the book
My rescripts, now with little bits of commentary for each one

User avatar
BakaJedi
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:19 pm
Location: Puget Sound (state of WA, USA [my birth•place - but I grew up as a "Navy Brat" since Oct↔️Dec 1975])

Re: [1562] The only thing I'm ever able to do

Post by BakaJedi » Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:57 pm

:?: I'm begining to wonder if, maaaybe, Miho is Moeko's ^mother^ :!:

User avatar
Yl33 D4 N00b
Posts: 473
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:19 pm
Location: KY

Re: [1562] The only thing I'm ever able to do

Post by Yl33 D4 N00b » Sun Sep 08, 2019 11:05 pm

BakaJedi wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:57 pm
:?: I'm begining to wonder if, maaaybe, Miho is Moeko's ^mother^ :!:
Then who is the daddy? ;)

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests