darrin wrote: ↑
Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:34 pm
Well, yeah, it's also "not established" that Yuki isn't carrying seven and a half frogs in her left pocket. But, you know, burden of proof and all that.
The point was that story comic has not yet clarified if what we saw in 1492 was the fighting around 1468 (we went back in time) or if 1492 shows the fight continuing after 1482 and the events up to 1488 (we did not not go back in time).
1492 did do at least one important thing, it pretty well established we did not return to the start of Miho's rampage in 1444, using material not previously shown that provided a new perspective that was pretty clearly lacking information-wise in 1489 even if we felt otherwise as you did even without more information, other than say the explosion going out. A great guess as it turned out, even if we still don't know exactly what it was, we have a better idea now when. So 1492 is another frame of reference, another way to determine not just when that was happening, but how much if any destruction was already there. Which initially I did not, until it was pointed out with story-comic-supported information, realize what importance there was in 1492, at least as far as when it was happening and how extensive the destruction already was.
In the face of that new story-supported information, and partially also based upon Erika calling in reinforcements in 1468 and assuming they arrived around 1482-1488, my adjusted guesses and current tentative conclusion about time. If we didn't go back to the start of the destruction to see another perspective on events, then we probably didn't go back at all. Of course, my tentative conclusions are fully unimportant, as is is unimportant if they turn out to be correct in what way or not. Do events make these things factually correct later? Hopefully. Either way, it will be interesting to see. But of course our guesses don't establish anything. Only story comic can answer questions or establish fact (or somewhat close to it) as it is all that is able to provide context. Happily, it doesn't do such context and perspective all at once, which allows discussion and philosophizing about it here, some of which will be correct for the wrong reasons or wrong for the correct reasons. Or half of each. It's always risky drawing conclusions from things we don't know we don't know though, after all, we're guessing, not stating as fact. We can't know fact until it gives that (or something close to that) to us. Or fails to give any and leaves everyone guessing about questions that have no answers and things that remain unestablished or nonexistent.
When and where did Yuki change clothes, and what does she have in her pockets, there's no answer unless story provides at least clues to fill in, if not outright examples. Where was she, that depends on what happened between 6&7, two panels that lack all information. Well, maybe blinking out in 6 says far, another guess, but supported by her actions in panel 8&9 where she is surprised. Which makes none of any of it true. Likelihood doesn't mean much when things are so often nothing like they seem. So then we can only guess that given her speed she was farther and so hadn't noticed any destruction or smoke or things out of place prior to the next to last and last panel. That's more solid than it was before we learned there was a lot of destruction she hadn't noticed; yet still we didn't know that before 1492 told us.
Huh, that's pretty much exactly what I said in the discussion thread in the first strip of this scene, and elaborated on in subsequent discussion threads, to your repeated poo-pooing.
Indeed, your impressions and feelings on the timeline and about the info does match what we can fill in with what we found out in 1492. But the argument was not against your take, but if the comic supported it with clear supporting helpful information and of what sort to what extent. An argument against the information, that 1489 itself alone either didn't establish those things, or even seemed to give an impression it was before the destruction (rather than just Yuki having not seen heard felt the destruction). But please forgive me if you thought I was discounting how you were perceiving 1489; it was about what it was telling us. Given 1492, it would seem more likely we went back to Yuki in real time, especially in light of the lack of previous rewinds that far to see another character. Although the lack of previous examples of such alone tells us not much; when combined with all the rest though, it tends to say a whole lot more. In hindsight at least.
But I guess now that it's you saying it instead of some random dumbass it must be +1 insightful
I'm just summarizing what 1492 added to the mystery, has nothing to do with who says it. A summarization all can somewhat agree with, while we wait to see how we're off in what we've decided. I don't have many of my own opinions separate from the ones story comics provide, where story tends to point, until ideas are ultimately shown near matching to how things are, or get adjusted some other way. That's what we discuss. I don't much care what the answers are, but if they aren't how they seem, the only real answers or rejections are in story comic. Which often we don't get anything near conclusive until later, sometimes much later. (What is the significance of the CoE pass Kimiko gets in 113? Wait a bit.)
If we say Miho was killed in 1123, maybe she was, maybe she wasn't. I don't know, nobody does, nothing has ever clearly established it -- but the details and circumstances and likelihoods have adjusted numerous times since 1123. The discussion in 1124 wasn't the one in 1125 or 1271 or 1279 . There's no answer to what happened, although we do know she had gotten out of the way of some number of killballs at the end of 1000, the CoE folks thought she was dead (which she was not when Yuki finds her in 1248) and thought she was someplace special and odd (which she was when Yuki finds her in 1248), Miho keeps talking about dying and going away in painful manners (yet 1350 seems not a big deal, the story about Kotone has her in bed sad and waiting), Meimi says something was sad but there's no clear answer to what exactly that means (dying, running away, a change in how things are, nothing to do with Miho, other). So did she get away? Die? Gap? Sort of die, respawn, get cloned, nothing like any of those. Well now,that's a curious unanswered set of questions. Nobody is right or wrong about how they feel it is, but no story comic fully supports or rejects most any given feeling either. Pointing that out, or talking about it, isn't personal. We don't really care what the truth is, it's about having a good idea of what the truth is whenever possible.
Although I do admit I thought it would be nice to go back and see what Yuki had been doing, and am rather saddened it turns out so far she hadn't been doing anything. But that's how it is, which is cool too.