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[1494] Stay Here

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Re: [1494] Stay Here

Post by Dragonix » Fri Sep 29, 2017 5:25 pm

Con wrote:
Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:57 pm
@Dragonix: The awkwardness is super cute to watch!♥ Funny to think this is a very fast moving relationship for their age, by Japanese standards... ^.^;
Oh, absolutely. Though honestly, Yuki has always struck me as having a slightly more "American" thought process about things (even more so than Piro, who is ACTUALLY American. :lol: ), so maybe this feels normal for her?

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Re: [1494] Stay Here

Post by Yl33 D4 N00b » Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:10 pm

Wasn't Yukata's mom a MG at some point earlier in her life? Maybe I'm wrong.... :?: If so, I wouldn't say she was in any real danger. I think she needed to give him a "reassurement kiss" in panel five...........
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Re: [1494] Stay Here

Post by paarfi » Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:40 pm

Yl33 D4 N00b wrote:
Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:10 pm
Wasn't Yukata's mom a MG at some point earlier in her life?
The hinting is strong that she is Nurse Angel Ririka. That show came out around the same time as Meimi's Saint Tail and Cha-san's Akazukin ChaCha. So it fits with Meimi's circle of magical girl friend's from teh old days. It also fits with her comment about how she can't just wave a magic baton to make everyone better like she used to in [1415].
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Re: [1494] Stay Here

Post by shadowrider » Sat Sep 30, 2017 10:40 pm

Okay, The innuendo in the first panel wasn't all that subtle. HeeHee.
Though I think both Yuki and Yutaka are not quite ready to take the next step in their relationship, yet.
So it's Keep calm, stay there in the room, and let Yuki take care of the clothing, and also saving Ririka.(and probably some of the others also.)
Someone needs to generate a poster for that. ;P

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Re: [1494] Stay Here

Post by Con » Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:45 pm

Something like this Shadowrider?Show

KEEP
CALM

and
TRUST
YUKI
@Yl33: As paarfi pointed out, Ririka isn't as capable as she used to be... she may have some powers still but we don't really know. And we've seen no evidence being a MG makes you immune to explosions (though maybe harder to catch with them!).

@Dragonix: Maybe that's why Yuki was so interested in Piro... She wanted an American style romance! My own pet theory has been that her romantic feelings for Piro activated her MG powers, but once they were on she was naturally drawn to someone who actually felt romantically for her, Yutaka. (literally drawn to, counting the fall from the power line!) ^3^

@iffy: The explosion in 1489 could have been anything, but Largo got another bomb in 1467 that we never saw go off. Doesn't really prove anything, just noticed it.

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Re: [1494] Stay Here

Post by darrin » Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:43 pm

Con wrote:
Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:57 pm
@darrin: Un-stealing the pants feels right, or maybe stole Yutaka into the pants... or maybe even stole his pantslessness?
Oh my, a Thief of the Abstract... that could be quite pretty in a certain scary way. Instead of just "I want object X to be at location Y, never mind the intervening points," it would be "I want the universe to be in state Z, and don't hassle me about the details." Potentially much more overpowered than Fred may actually be willing to deal with. :lol: Also Yuki herself said "All I good at is... steal stuff," so presumably that's what it "feels" like to her on some level. (Then again we have no way of knowing what else she's tried to do so far. :D)

So I won't actually go and believe that yet, but I will definitely be keeping my eyes open for new and interesting things Yuki demonstrates herself able to do. ;)
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Re: [1494] Stay Here

Post by Fujii Yakumo » Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:56 pm

darrin wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:43 pm
Oh my, a Thief of the Abstract... that could be quite pretty in a certain scary way. Instead of just "I want object X to be at location Y, never mind the intervening points," it would be "I want the universe to be in state Z, and don't hassle me about the details." Potentially much more overpowered than Fred may actually be willing to deal with. :lol:
Well, Inspector Sonoda's magical-girl detector is indicating that a "potentially catastrophic grade" magical girl is nearby in strips 1107 and 1108. (No wonder he turned the alarm off. :-) )

Yuki ain't no slouch in the magical-girl department. And being able to put the Universe into "state Z" (as Darrin put it) would definitely "pin the needle" on the Inspector's meter. (Made by Fluke, no less. :lol: )
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Re: [1494] Stay Here

Post by Yl33 D4 N00b » Tue Oct 03, 2017 2:13 am

If Fred really wanted to make Yuki OP, he'd have her go back in time, and yoink Miho off the pirate ship........ :lol:
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Re: [1494] Stay Here

Post by iffy » Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:33 pm

Con wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:45 pm
@iffy: The explosion in 1489 could have been anything, but Largo got another bomb in 1467 that we never saw go off. Doesn't really prove anything, just noticed it.
That bomb seemed more of a gag and shortcut illustration, but with Largo who knows. Although if Erika brought in helpers, she'd probably stop him from blowing them up. And moreso from destroying the rest of floors and foundation of hospital.

It's not established we've not gone back in story time, but more and more interlocking indications are we haven't. Or at least it fits that we did not.

Figuring out the times, the problem to start with is we don't know where Yuki went for how long when. She kisses Yutaka, and then? Lots of stuff happens, and we return to her only knowing it's after we last saw her. How much after, oh no who can tell. Even perhaps given her fretting so much about the mg love-power attack, it was close to when she did it. But that was last chapter, that's over. So then after she'd napped or slept, if she did that even, and then started back berating herself. Or she'd been all night self-doubting. Very not detailed. Also, where she is, we don't know where that was either, just it's a communication array up high. Not much help determining specifics. Neither is it clear when she put on different clothes. Home? On the way there or here? They were under the last set? She had them in an interdimensional rift?

I was operating at first with the initial comic's apparent calm and lack of destruction, the comm array sitting was aroundish the time Miho woke up, or some minutes later when Piro tells Miho she not only didn't die but has been cyborg-fixed. Although we know maybe probably almost certainly Yuki's landing was after a lengthy but quick flight, the lack of intervening travel gives the impression at least that it was close, or closer rather than farther. While we don't and can't know how close or far, it's at the least possible she was blocks away and didn't see hear notice anything. That there was already lots of destruction, just not evident to her or us. That the initial rampage isn't what Yuki sees, that it has already happened. The intervening destruction seems more extensive than if things had just started too. Which then what Yuki notices and then sees in the last panels of if he doesn't see mewould be sometime after Kimiko confronts Miho, takes over, is defeated, and Piro carries her away. More than that, depending on what that explosion was, Largo blasting a wall with a rocket or the TPCD or who knows, it could also be after Piro finding Megumi, her getting the keys then getting the car, returning, and taking them away. 10 minutes, 30, an hour and a half, whatever whichever took.

Still, whatever the fighting is in wellness check it could be after Miho is replaced but before the "escape". However IIRC we've never previously backtracked in time to show alternate happenings during a chapter, just non-story inserts, flashbacks, descriptions. It would then seem more likely we went back to Yuki in real time as others have been suggesting, and indeed as comic supports to the extent it doesn't establish otherwise and there are many clues or better. That Yuki has not been doing anything special to wind back to, no important side trips, no sudden insights, and Yuki was clueless about the hospital fighting until she saw whenever Largo and Erika are doing now. Doesn't know about the plot to end a Miho story without her dying again like always, or where Miho's been taken to now, or what anyone has been doing. Except now she knows where Yutaka is and perhaps soon Ririka, and maybe after a while others.

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Re: [1494] Stay Here

Post by darrin » Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:34 pm

Yl33 D4 N00b wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2017 2:13 am
If Fred really wanted to make Yuki OP, he'd have her go back in time, and yoink Miho off the pirate ship........ :lol:
Now why does that immediately suggest to me a plot catastrophe along the lines of "The Wedding of River Song"... :shock: :lol:

EDIT:
iffy wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:33 pm
It's not established we've not gone back in story time,
Well, yeah, it's also "not established" that Yuki isn't carrying seven and a half frogs in her left pocket. But, you know, burden of proof and all that.
but more and more interlocking indications are we haven't. Or at least it fits that we did not.
[...]
... IIRC we've never previously backtracked in time to show alternate happenings during a chapter, just non-story inserts, flashbacks, descriptions.
Huh, that's pretty much exactly what I said in the discussion thread in the first strip of this scene, and elaborated on in subsequent discussion threads, to your repeated poo-pooing. But I guess now that it's you saying it instead of some random dumbass it must be +1 insightful. :roll:
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Re: [1494] Stay Here

Post by iffy » Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:40 pm

darrin wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:34 pm
Well, yeah, it's also "not established" that Yuki isn't carrying seven and a half frogs in her left pocket. But, you know, burden of proof and all that.
The point was that story comic has not yet clarified if what we saw in 1492 was the fighting around 1468 (we went back in time) or if 1492 shows the fight continuing after 1482 and the events up to 1488 (we did not not go back in time).

1492 did do at least one important thing, it pretty well established we did not return to the start of Miho's rampage in 1444, using material not previously shown that provided a new perspective that was pretty clearly lacking information-wise in 1489 even if we felt otherwise as you did even without more information, other than say the explosion going out. A great guess as it turned out, even if we still don't know exactly what it was, we have a better idea now when. So 1492 is another frame of reference, another way to determine not just when that was happening, but how much if any destruction was already there. Which initially I did not, until it was pointed out with story-comic-supported information, realize what importance there was in 1492, at least as far as when it was happening and how extensive the destruction already was.

In the face of that new story-supported information, and partially also based upon Erika calling in reinforcements in 1468 and assuming they arrived around 1482-1488, my adjusted guesses and current tentative conclusion about time. If we didn't go back to the start of the destruction to see another perspective on events, then we probably didn't go back at all. Of course, my tentative conclusions are fully unimportant, as is is unimportant if they turn out to be correct in what way or not. Do events make these things factually correct later? Hopefully. Either way, it will be interesting to see. But of course our guesses don't establish anything. Only story comic can answer questions or establish fact (or somewhat close to it) as it is all that is able to provide context. Happily, it doesn't do such context and perspective all at once, which allows discussion and philosophizing about it here, some of which will be correct for the wrong reasons or wrong for the correct reasons. Or half of each. It's always risky drawing conclusions from things we don't know we don't know though, after all, we're guessing, not stating as fact. We can't know fact until it gives that (or something close to that) to us. Or fails to give any and leaves everyone guessing about questions that have no answers and things that remain unestablished or nonexistent.

When and where did Yuki change clothes, and what does she have in her pockets, there's no answer unless story provides at least clues to fill in, if not outright examples. Where was she, that depends on what happened between 6&7, two panels that lack all information. Well, maybe blinking out in 6 says far, another guess, but supported by her actions in panel 8&9 where she is surprised. Which makes none of any of it true. Likelihood doesn't mean much when things are so often nothing like they seem. So then we can only guess that given her speed she was farther and so hadn't noticed any destruction or smoke or things out of place prior to the next to last and last panel. That's more solid than it was before we learned there was a lot of destruction she hadn't noticed; yet still we didn't know that before 1492 told us.
Huh, that's pretty much exactly what I said in the discussion thread in the first strip of this scene, and elaborated on in subsequent discussion threads, to your repeated poo-pooing.
Indeed, your impressions and feelings on the timeline and about the info does match what we can fill in with what we found out in 1492. But the argument was not against your take, but if the comic supported it with clear supporting helpful information and of what sort to what extent. An argument against the information, that 1489 itself alone either didn't establish those things, or even seemed to give an impression it was before the destruction (rather than just Yuki having not seen heard felt the destruction). But please forgive me if you thought I was discounting how you were perceiving 1489; it was about what it was telling us. Given 1492, it would seem more likely we went back to Yuki in real time, especially in light of the lack of previous rewinds that far to see another character. Although the lack of previous examples of such alone tells us not much; when combined with all the rest though, it tends to say a whole lot more. In hindsight at least.
But I guess now that it's you saying it instead of some random dumbass it must be +1 insightful
I'm just summarizing what 1492 added to the mystery, has nothing to do with who says it. A summarization all can somewhat agree with, while we wait to see how we're off in what we've decided. I don't have many of my own opinions separate from the ones story comics provide, where story tends to point, until ideas are ultimately shown near matching to how things are, or get adjusted some other way. That's what we discuss. I don't much care what the answers are, but if they aren't how they seem, the only real answers or rejections are in story comic. Which often we don't get anything near conclusive until later, sometimes much later. (What is the significance of the CoE pass Kimiko gets in 113? Wait a bit.)

If we say Miho was killed in 1123, maybe she was, maybe she wasn't. I don't know, nobody does, nothing has ever clearly established it -- but the details and circumstances and likelihoods have adjusted numerous times since 1123. The discussion in 1124 wasn't the one in 1125 or 1271 or 1279 . There's no answer to what happened, although we do know she had gotten out of the way of some number of killballs at the end of 1000, the CoE folks thought she was dead (which she was not when Yuki finds her in 1248) and thought she was someplace special and odd (which she was when Yuki finds her in 1248), Miho keeps talking about dying and going away in painful manners (yet 1350 seems not a big deal, the story about Kotone has her in bed sad and waiting), Meimi says something was sad but there's no clear answer to what exactly that means (dying, running away, a change in how things are, nothing to do with Miho, other). So did she get away? Die? Gap? Sort of die, respawn, get cloned, nothing like any of those. Well now,that's a curious unanswered set of questions. Nobody is right or wrong about how they feel it is, but no story comic fully supports or rejects most any given feeling either. Pointing that out, or talking about it, isn't personal. We don't really care what the truth is, it's about having a good idea of what the truth is whenever possible.

Although I do admit I thought it would be nice to go back and see what Yuki had been doing, and am rather saddened it turns out so far she hadn't been doing anything. But that's how it is, which is cool too.

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Re: [1494] Stay Here

Post by Sareth » Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:01 pm

Rate this is going, Yuki's gonna wind up stealing more than just his pantslessness...

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Re: [1494] Stay Here

Post by WarGiver » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:03 pm

Sorry people I held off with this as long as I could, but I am afraid I have to say it....

She unpantsed him...

:p

(In some areas saying that "you were pantsed" or similar means someone removed your pants)

terrible joke I admit but its enough of a groaner I had to post it.

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Re: [1494] Stay Here

Post by Sackett » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:00 pm

Well iffy, I think there was the comment Yuki's mother made in 1488 about Yuki having snuck out of her room. Consider that Meimi actually encouraged Yuki to get involved in Miho's problems, instigating the whole Yuki following Miho and injuring Yukata plotline that ended with Miho in the hospital with a pacemaker.

With that knowledge, it seems very unlikely that Meimi would be expecting Yuki to be in her room unless Yuki had returned home and changed (maybe even a quick shower or a nap). I mean, we have no idea how long Miho was unconscious right?

Still I am not certain that 1489 is after Piro fled the scene, just that it cannot be any earlier than 1466, and it might be a later explosion.

We might not even ever find out, as it may be difficult to tell the difference (since it could only be five minutes in real time).

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Re: [1494] Stay Here

Post by Sackett » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:02 pm

WarGiver wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:03 pm
Sorry people I held off with this as long as I could, but I am afraid I have to say it....

She unpantsed him...

:p

(In some areas saying that "you were pantsed" or similar means someone removed your pants)

terrible joke I admit but its enough of a groaner I had to post it.
I thought pantsing and unpantsing are like flammable and inflammable, words that mean the same thing despite the addition of a prefix making you assume they would be opposites.

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Re: [1494] Stay Here

Post by WarGiver » Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:47 pm

Sackett wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:02 pm
I thought pantsing and unpantsing are like flammable and inflammable, words that mean the same thing despite the addition of a prefix making you assume they would be opposites.
Traditionally there is no prefex to my knowledge.

---

as to timeline wise I do think we are in situation where she went home first, her change of clothes is the only thing that makes sense.

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Re: [1494] Stay Here

Post by paarfi » Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:34 pm

Fred has been shading the next comic this afternoon. With any luck he'll get it done and posted to his patreon tonight or tomorrow.
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Re: [1494] Stay Here

Post by darrin » Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:51 pm

paarfi wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:34 pm
Fred has been shading the next comic this afternoon. With any luck he'll get it done and posted to his patreon tonight or tomorrow.
Excellent, really looking forward to more Yuki and/or Yutaka goodness (have been a Yutaka fan since forever now :lol:).
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Re: [1494] Stay Here

Post by iffy » Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:38 pm

Sackett wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:00 pm
Well iffy, I think there was the comment Yuki's mother made in 1488 about Yuki having snuck out of her room. Consider that Meimi actually encouraged Yuki to get involved in Miho's problems, instigating the whole Yuki following Miho and injuring Yukata plotline that ended with Miho in the hospital with a pacemaker.
With that knowledge, it seems very unlikely that Meimi would be expecting Yuki to be in her room unless Yuki had returned home and changed (maybe even a quick shower or a nap). I mean, we have no idea how long Miho was unconscious right?
Still I am not certain that 1489 is after Piro fled the scene, just that it cannot be any earlier than 1466, and it might be a later explosion.
We might not even ever find out, as it may be difficult to tell the difference (since it could only be five minutes in real time).
No way to really tell. Also no way to tell (from story comic or anything much else) but I took Meimi's comment to be in the now only. As in, that since Yuki wasn't in her room, Yuki must have snuck out. Certainly yes (and especially after encouraging Yuki) Meimi wasn't at all surprised, took it rather blasse blasse. But I didn't get the impression Meimi necessarily said it because she knew Yuki had been back. Just that Yuki wasn't there and oh must have snuck out. Which isn't too detailed on when Yuki might have been back or if she hadn't been back at all.

We have a lot of gaps with Yuki last and this chapter, aside from pretending to be Miho, plopping Miho at the apartment for Kimiko and Piro to find her, going to kiss Yutaka, doing something or another, showing up at some point this morning. Was that something or another between last chapter and this one home, with sleep, shower, new clothes, breakfast? Or maybe a nap on a building, a yoink of food and clothes, a zip through a bathhouse, and back to the radio tower to yell at herself... :iiam:

Well, after me getting lots of unconfirmed things in 1489 off (sure maybe the winking out in 6 and dropping in in 7 say "very quick but farther away," and sure maybe the foom in panel 9 says "explosion was from inside," at least in retrospect). The 1489 things that aren't clarified until some of it becomes clearer in 1492. When we see that 1492 is after Largo gives Erika the tire iron (which also bypassed me through a couple of the middle guessing rant iterations). That puts lots of top spin on the explosion, being 99.99% not Miho and 99.99% is Largo. From that, we have a pretty clear fit of when that would have been.

So again it's that 1492 fills in that in 1489 Yuki only hadn't seen Miho's rampage and attempts by the TPCD and whatever happens with Junpei and then Kimiko. Not that there was no destruction to see, just that she didn't see it yet, pretty much just like us. It's pretty clear from 1492 that most (all) of the destruction was already there, and Yuki in 1489 was just too far to hear it or notice it. If the destruction wasn't there already by 1489, it would require all that went from 1444 to about 1468 to have taken place between when Yuki sees the foom and is going over in 1492 first panels. It would require compressing all events from Miho ripping out of bed in 1444 to Largo giving Erika the pipe in 1467 to some number of seconds or less, which seems a bit much even for MT. : grin : : wink : That would then be true probably regardless of how long Yuki had been where we first see her in 1489 (sometime from right after kissing Yutaka, to a couple minutes ago, minus some getting new clothes on time) and regardless of the specific distance to travel before landing near hospital. The panel 3&4 stuff in 1492 would then be at the earliest 1467/1468. It could be (and if there was no rewind it would be) after {1482 to 1488} though, with Erika's fans continuing to fight zombies or a horde and so on after the "escape". Wherever they went to, wherever Junpei is. Which an ongoing fight has other ramifications probably for how well the substitution and subterfuge worked, which might seem so far to be not well. Or well, just with a lot of inertia after. It also seems to make sense as to why we've returned to Yuki after she's perhaps gotten some rest, not that there's been that much time between 1444 to 1488 necessarily.

The only real questions that remain (short of a bunch of things destroying all the tentative conclusions so far) are: A if this is soon after 1468 B between 1468 and 1488 C after 1488.

I am mostly guessing after 1488 somewhat because no history of such rewinds (now that we pretty much know we didn't go all the way back, why go back at all) but in large part because Erika called in help and did so for some reason. Nobody has been acting like it's winding down. It's not been very long since mecha and more were trying to stop the van (and whatever else) plus there was not much indication anything was done and ending on the fighting part between various factions. Even after Miho dying, it kept going, just as it continued while Piro was carrying away the body, and Megumi was driving in, and more. The indications are so far the fighting, whyever and whatever, isn't going to stop on its own.

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Re: [1494] Stay Here

Post by iffy » Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:48 pm

A summary then.

Taking 1489 to 1492 as very close in time as a given, and considering the state of hospital and events as shown in 1492, then now is one of right after 1468, between 1468 and 1488, or after 1488. That there was no indication the fighting was slowing or over would suggest that the fighting is still ongoing, which would fit pretty well into it being after 1488.

If we are still live and moving ever forward then what's happening now with Yuki and Yutaka is after 1488, after all of the escape, Miho arguing with {Junpei's mother?}, and a magicalgirl'd zomzom-person. And so whatever Miho's death was supposed to have solved didn't appear to have. At least not as far as the authorities (and potentially the involved fans and any mystically created hordes) are concerned. Perhaps it's not about that any more, a situation that's just grown larger. Or perhaps things are not quite as they seem, again. Perhaps both and more.

Which on a metaish level, those involved most closely (at the least Erika, Largo, Megumi, Piro, Kimiko, Junpei, Komugiko, Yakugashi) know Miho isn't dead. On an even more Meta, we certainly know Miho isn't dead.

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