Welcome to the new MegaTokyo Forums! The old forums are available (in read-only mode) at http://archive.forums.megatokyo.com.

[1557] I wish I could hear you talk

Moderators: Invisigoth, chemi

User avatar
BetaCygnus
Posts: 170
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:19 pm
Location: Veenendaal, NL

Re: [1557] I wish I could hear you talk

Post by BetaCygnus » Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:38 pm

cidjen wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:54 am
@BetaCygnus :)

Well in 1540/1541 we can see they are not the same person. Also Moeko is much younger.
Oh, yeah — *that* scene. Well, I interpreted that simply as different versions (alter ego) of herself. Miho unconscious, and so, with Yaku holding her, in tears, while Miho has this internal conversation with — herself, basically.
Do you have any idea how often I have complete mental discussions with different versions of myself about almost anything? Age difference is there as well — it has been said of me that traumatic experiences during my youth (I can name a few) may have caused the presence of those versions of myself ‘frozen’/‘captured’ in their own time and age, while on the outside, the ‘real’ me grew up and became the ‘mostly adult’ I am to most people around me.

I think many people can relate to that, and I always assumed it was something like that with Miho, too. =)
— Member № 48735 · February 13, 2006 —

User avatar
LogicalLube
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:50 am

Re: [1557] I wish I could hear you talk

Post by LogicalLube » Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:35 pm

Somethings thats been bugging me for a while, is Moeko based on a Magical Girl from IRL anime like the other known MG's in MT (Ririka, Nurse Angel Ririka, Cha-san, Akizukin ChaCha, The Sonada familiy, Saint Tail etc.), or is she an OC on Fred's part, or is that something we'll (maybe) discover later?

I can't say I'm the world's largest fan of the genre (I only remember watching OG Sailor Moon as a kid and Ground Defense Force! Mao-chan years and years ago) so I can't say I'm great at putting two and two together when it comes to Fred's mind, as if anybody really could that is.

User avatar
paarfi
Super Mod
Super Mod
Posts: 607
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2017 5:32 pm
Location: south-central Pennsylvania

Re: [1557] I wish I could hear you talk

Post by paarfi » Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:40 pm

LogicalLube wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:35 pm
Somethings thats been bugging me for a while, is Moeko based on a Magical Girl from IRL anime like the other known MG's in MT (Ririka, Nurse Angel Ririka, Cha-san, Akizukin ChaCha, The Sonada familiy, Saint Tail etc.), or is she an OC on Fred's part, or is that something we'll (maybe) discover later?
As far as I know, she's OC magical girl. I think the Lovlies of Lavender were as well [1416]. Though I could be wrong.
Proud owner of kendermouse's 500th post.
Lean and slippered forum loon

Teddy-Werebear
Posts: 235
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:19 pm
Location: WV

Re: [1557] I wish I could hear you talk

Post by Teddy-Werebear » Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:41 pm

jkhartl wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:39 am
Teddy-Werebear wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:20 am
How would a person in a coma for an extended time speak?
Magic.
So it could still be Erika speaking... because she sure is acting like she being magically dominated or compelled in this comic.
My theory of her just messing Largo last comic seems highly unlikely now.

Invisigoth
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 555
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:19 pm

Re: [1557] I wish I could hear you talk

Post by Invisigoth » Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:03 pm

Teddy-Werebear wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:41 pm
jkhartl wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:39 am
Teddy-Werebear wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:20 am
How would a person in a coma for an extended time speak?
Magic.
So it could still be Erika speaking... because she sure is acting like she being magically dominated or compelled in this comic.
My theory of her just messing Largo last comic seems highly unlikely now.
No, it is not Erika speaking and there is no possibility of that happening. Moeko can communicate to people she's got a connection to like Miho and Erika even though she's not seen fit to do so before....or perhaps she's about to awake and start the kawaiipocalyse!

User avatar
cidjen
Posts: 850
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:13 pm
Location: Too many to fit in this margin area
Contact:

Re: [1557] I wish I could hear you talk

Post by cidjen » Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:45 pm

BetaCygnus wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:38 pm
cidjen wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:54 am
@BetaCygnus :)

Well in 1540/1541 we can see they are not the same person. Also Moeko is much younger.
Oh, yeah — *that* scene. Well, I interpreted that simply as different versions (alter ego) of herself. Miho unconscious, and so, with Yaku holding her, in tears, while Miho has this internal conversation with — herself, basically.
Do you have any idea how often I have complete mental discussions with different versions of myself about almost anything? [...]
I thought so too, but only until I had the *Mind*blown* moment in this thread :)

It sort-of was a 'think outside of the box' moment, trying a different perspective, and seeing if it still lines up...
I think Miho and Moeko being sisters explains a few more things - e.g. the original intent of Lockart to hire a 'genki' girl instead of Kimiko to play the heroine of Sight = the late stage Miho; also why Erika isn't mentioned ever attempting or being drawn into playing Miho's story? Doesn't even know there is one? Because she's already plaing Moeko, that's why. She would not be considered to play the 'earlier' story (Miho), also I guess it would be too far out of character for Erika to play The Sick Girl Miho. And so the opportunity opened for Kimiko to be let into playing the Miho part... which she got by not being her usual self.
So this sorta lines up :) maybe not totally watertight but I think some water it does hold.

User avatar
darrin
Posts: 529
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:19 pm

Re: [1557] I wish I could hear you talk

Post by darrin » Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:41 pm

I am very curious what "the girl who inspired the whole 'Girl Phase' story" unpacks to in Erika's head. Does she actually know of the existence of real Magical Girls? I've wondered about that since the conversation outside the hospital just before Ririka keeled over, and the current scene is really bringing that question back to the forefront for me (after a lot of other exciting things happening this chapter :lol:) When Ririka was talking about Yuki being "the real Magic Girl right here!", and about Yuki's mother not having set off any Sparklogen-reactive "alarms", Erika didn't react one way or another, which doesn't really narrow down the possibilites. She could be aware but didn't feel any need to discuss MGs out loud (in front of unauthrized civilians say); or at the other extreme, she could be oblivious enough that Ririka's comments were going over her head (the way Kimiko was oblivious when Miho yanked her out of the cafe Ed was blowing up).

Ririka expresses awareness of the "thin little blond girl" that was substituted in for her in the (presumably Stability-vetted) publicly distributed anime; it's likely she was also aware of the VA that portrayed said thin little blond girl. Does that go both ways? Are VAs who are intended to portray (vetted versions of) actual MGs --in particular "catastrophic grade" MGs-- at some point in the interview process put through a "special' interview with Stablity: "here's what's actually going on, here's why the public Cannot Know the Truth, and here's what you're going to be doing to keep those secrets secret"? (Think of the recruitment scene near the beginning of Men in Black -- but with someone like Dom in the last room with a Glock instead of a nice guy giving you a nice "eye exam".) If so, and if Erika did pass those tests and signed all the NDAs... is it possible she quit for reasons other than just Hitoshi being a jerk? Did her quitting pose particular problems that would cause many parties to take an interest in her whereabouts and activities? (Both Masamichi and Meimi had been keeping tabs on her in one form or other, Junpei recognized her immediately as "Hayasaka-Dono", Dom and Ed were more than usually excited on first "accidentally" running into her...)

Or would Stability rather keep as many in the dark as possible, as one would expect of a proper Conspiracy at the Highest Levels? By "inspired the story", does Erika just mean the "mundane" (again, Stability-vetted, or if necessary Stability-made-up-whole-cloth) details of her biography? "Of course 'magic' here is just a metaphor for 'doing your best' and 'believing in your friends' blah blah blah, and the 'evil villains' are metaphors for the day-to-day struggles like crippling illness blah blah blah..." Of course a veteran -- some might even say jaded :( -- VA isn't going to actually believe any of that nonsense about "real" magic, right?

Either way, Moeko is indeed likely to have some very interesting things to say to Erika.
Avatar by Broken, I changed the book
My rescripts, now with little bits of commentary for each one

User avatar
paarfi
Super Mod
Super Mod
Posts: 607
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2017 5:32 pm
Location: south-central Pennsylvania

Re: [1557] I wish I could hear you talk

Post by paarfi » Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:48 pm

darrin wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:41 pm
I am very curious what "the girl who inspired the whole 'Girl Phase' story" unpacks to in Erika's head. Does she actually know of the existence of real Magical Girls?
I think she does. Erika seems to know Meimi reasonably well, and certainly knows about Meimi's five-fingered-discounts [673]. That's not enough by itself to say Erika knows about real magical girls, but I think it makes it a strong possibility.
Proud owner of kendermouse's 500th post.
Lean and slippered forum loon

User avatar
darrin
Posts: 529
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:19 pm

Re: [1557] I wish I could hear you talk

Post by darrin » Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:48 pm

paarfi wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:48 pm
I think she does. Erika seems to know Meimi reasonably well, and certainly knows about Meimi's five-fingered-discounts [673]. That's not enough by itself to say Erika knows about real magical girls, but I think it makes it a strong possibility.
That's about where I am too. That's a good point about the scene with Meimi and the knife; I didn't mention it but I am quite sure it's among the factors (both consciously and subconsciously) that have kept me coming back to this question. I am about 70 to 30 in favor of her knowing (agreeing with you that it's a strong possibility).
Avatar by Broken, I changed the book
My rescripts, now with little bits of commentary for each one

chemi
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:19 pm
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Contact:

Re: [1557] I wish I could hear you talk

Post by chemi » Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:33 pm

As to whether or not Erika is aware of real magical girls... let's put it this way.

One of the reasons she's come to like Largo so much is because he is the only person she's met who sees the same world she does.

User avatar
maldrul
Posts: 128
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:19 pm
Location: Texas

Re: [1557] I wish I could hear you talk

Post by maldrul » Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:38 pm

So, when Erika quit, the real Moeko should have died, but Miho tried to step in but couldn't control the part and Masamichi "nearly lost Tokyo" over it. So now Moeko is in a coma instead of dead because she retained some life from Miho's antics.
Image

User avatar
BetaCygnus
Posts: 170
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:19 pm
Location: Veenendaal, NL

Re: [1557] I wish I could hear you talk

Post by BetaCygnus » Fri Jun 21, 2019 4:27 am

@cidjen : that’s a nice theory there! It sure holds more water than what I can make of it all… =)

@chemi : …and since Largo is clearly aware of the MG layer, that would count as a quite definite ‘yes’ — thank you! =)

@LogicalLube : I don’t think I ever consciously heard of Saint Tail before. Thanks for that reference! =)

@darrin :
@paarfi :
@maldrul :

To quote a famous Jim Henson movie: „I don’t know! I’ve never understood it!”

…but thanks for the above discussion.
— Member № 48735 · February 13, 2006 —

Invisigoth
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 555
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:19 pm

Re: [1557] I wish I could hear you talk

Post by Invisigoth » Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:57 am

chemi wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:33 pm
As to whether or not Erika is aware of real magical girls... let's put it this way.

One of the reasons she's come to like Largo so much is because he is the only person she's met who sees the same world she does.
You're ass backwards on that one dude. Her looks of contempt when he starts rambling about zombies comes of being a veteran of the downtown militarized zone being lectured by a tourist.

And besides, they're married in "real life" so she sort of has to put up with him until she gets fed up and kicks him out. Then he's gonna be sleeping on Piroko's sofa....

User avatar
cidjen
Posts: 850
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:13 pm
Location: Too many to fit in this margin area
Contact:

Re: [1557] I wish I could hear you talk

Post by cidjen » Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:59 am

Haha by the way,

now we know what that sound effect in [29] means... O.o way to do Chekhov's Guns....

User avatar
darrin
Posts: 529
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:19 pm

Re: [1557] I wish I could hear you talk

Post by darrin » Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:59 am

chemi wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:33 pm
As to whether or not Erika is aware of real magical girls... let's put it this way.

One of the reasons she's come to like Largo so much is because he is the only person she's met who sees the same world she does.
Sure there are plenty of clues in that (as well as lots of other :D) directions, I certainly wasn't attempting an exhaustive list, ;)

In particular it always struck me as significant that when Largo triggers a violently foamy end to the Dinner of Doom, and explains to Erika that the diversion was necessary so he could pass a replacement phone to Yuki for "operations", she doesn't immediately say something obvious, like what "operations" a teenage girl could possibly be involved in that were anywhere near as important as their dinner with her old friends. On the contrary, she ore or less laughs it off and says "ah, ok then". Of course at the time I couldn't be sure how or why it was significant, but now it is starting to look more and more like yet another puzzle piece.

A counterargument, that she's "unaware" of the magic like (apparently?) Kimiko, would be that it might make for a more "dramatic" reveal from Moeko, the old "no. magic really is real! ta da!" bit (along with what I said above about Stability wanting to keep as many as possible out of the loop). (That's roughly accounting for the 30% I said above about how likely I think it is that Erika's unaware.) But for my money those would seem to be the more "stereotypical" dramatic reveals; but if Erika was mostly aware, and thought she already knew about magic and Magical Girls and keeping the public safely unaware... then the devil would be in the details, Moeko's reveals (if any) would be more along the lines of "you thought you knew about Stability, but here's what they're doing behind the scenes..." A potentially bigger existential crisis for Erika ("THAT's what I was helping to keep secret???"), consistent with what some of us were seeing from the Old Man in regards to Ping (when others had dismissed him as a simple garden-variety pervert).
Avatar by Broken, I changed the book
My rescripts, now with little bits of commentary for each one

User avatar
maldrul
Posts: 128
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:19 pm
Location: Texas

Re: [1557] I wish I could hear you talk

Post by maldrul » Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:42 pm

Erika must be at least partially aware, because she sees Boo and can talk to him.
Image

User avatar
Zandra
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:19 pm

Re: [1557] I wish I could hear you talk

Post by Zandra » Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:58 pm

I have a suspicion that Miho and and the coma girl are going to have a full fledged category 5 brawl in megatokyo before this is all over.
I WAS the Owner of Wolfboys 800th post but SOMEBODY had to go and get a new Forum lol!

User avatar
BetaCygnus
Posts: 170
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:19 pm
Location: Veenendaal, NL

Re: [1557] I wish I could hear you talk

Post by BetaCygnus » Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:05 pm

@Zandra: *that* sounds like something that has ‘Largo’ written all over it. This time, if what you say comes true, he may actually remain innocent.

=)
— Member № 48735 · February 13, 2006 —

User avatar
darrin
Posts: 529
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:19 pm

Re: [1557] I wish I could hear you talk

Post by darrin » Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:54 pm

BetaCygnus wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:05 pm
@Zandra: *that* sounds like something that has ‘Largo’ written all over it. This time, if what you say comes true, he may actually remain innocent.

=)
Also keep in mind it's a log scale. If a pair of Category 5 Magical Girls has a fight, that's a Category 25 catastrophe (not just 10 :shock:).
Avatar by Broken, I changed the book
My rescripts, now with little bits of commentary for each one

Invisigoth
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 555
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:19 pm

Re: [1557] I wish I could hear you talk

Post by Invisigoth » Fri Jun 21, 2019 4:05 pm

Yuki is over 7 and Moeko is at least that strong. Miho is possibly beyond class 9 as well. A category 5 battle would be the best case scenario

Teddy-Werebear
Posts: 235
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:19 pm
Location: WV

Re: [1557] I wish I could hear you talk

Post by Teddy-Werebear » Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:53 pm

darrin wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:54 pm
Also keep in mind it's a log scale. If a pair of Category 5 Magical Girls has a fight, that's a Category 25 catastrophe (not just 10 :shock:).
I think I would prefer the Richter scale for this sort of devastation...

User avatar
BetaCygnus
Posts: 170
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:19 pm
Location: Veenendaal, NL

Re: [1557] I wish I could hear you talk

Post by BetaCygnus » Sat Jun 22, 2019 4:38 am

ROFLOL =D
— Member № 48735 · February 13, 2006 —

User avatar
darrin
Posts: 529
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:19 pm

Re: [1557] I wish I could hear you talk

Post by darrin » Sat Jun 22, 2019 9:37 pm

Teddy-Werebear wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:53 pm
I think I would prefer the Richter scale for this sort of devastation...
Richter is also a log scale (an increase of one "point" means a 10-times increase in intensity, not a linear increase), and thus a special case of what I was talking about generally.

More specifically, I would expect the Sparklogen scale to take into account effects that not even Prof. Richter was equipped to deal with. Earthquakes will just wreck your city, but a Magical Girl can wreck your mind, heart, and soul.

EDIT:
Speaking of "many disaster and much destruction of urban area", do Magical Girls have kind of a Mjollnir thing going with their wands (the ones who use them anyway)? Comes at her beck and call even when she's disabled or comatose? It would explain why They left it with her rather than stowing it in a secure facility... If that's some kind of Sparklogen-suppressing Montauk ring around the business end, I can understand Them considering this an acceptable risk (compared to trying to actively pry the thing out of her cold live fingers :lol:).

As paarfi said, OSHA would approve -- assuming you could pay them enough to actually approach the facility and attempt an inspection. ("Wait, did you say Magical Girl? Oh, uh, sorry, checking my records again we're... we're uh, booked pretty solid until, let's say 2050. I'll pencil you in but you should definitely call back in 2048.")
Avatar by Broken, I changed the book
My rescripts, now with little bits of commentary for each one

Invisigoth
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 555
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:19 pm

Re: [1557] I wish I could hear you talk

Post by Invisigoth » Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:13 pm

@Darrin, according to Fred during discussions in Twitch attempts to keep Moeko's wand away from her have all failed. TPCD locks it in increasingly secure and hardened vaults and within a day it's back in her hand in her room. I think all attempts to destroy it have failed too, "Yep, burned that sucker to ashes and launched them into space!" and the wand is back in her hand...

Also all attempts to dress her have failed as well. the only thing covering her is the bed sheet. Try to dress her and the clothes disappear....

User avatar
darrin
Posts: 529
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:19 pm

Re: [1557] I wish I could hear you talk

Post by darrin » Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:21 pm

Invisigoth wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:13 pm
@Darrin, according to Fred during discussions in Twitch attempts to keep Moeko's wand away from her have all failed.
Ha, I actually called something for a change? Awesome. :lol: :lol:
Also all attempts to dress her have failed as well. the only thing covering her is the bed sheet. Try to dress her and the clothes disappear....
Snerk, it is almost certainly a coincidence that I am currently rereading B Gata H Kei. A Magical Girl Yamada would quite defintely roll that way. :oops: :lol:
Avatar by Broken, I changed the book
My rescripts, now with little bits of commentary for each one

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 27 guests