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[1491] Visiting the Family Shrine [part 2]

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BetaCygnus
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Re: [1491] Visiting the Family Shrine [part 2]

Post by BetaCygnus » Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:13 am

Liminaut wrote:
Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:42 pm
As I understand it ... with three or more tails a kitsune can cast illusions, and so hide tails and ears if desired.
What does that tell us about Sawatari and her hair ribbon? =)

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Re: [1491] Visiting the Family Shrine [part 2]

Post by paarfi » Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:04 pm

BetaCygnus wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:13 am
Liminaut wrote:
Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:42 pm
As I understand it ... with three or more tails a kitsune can cast illusions, and so hide tails and ears if desired.
What does that tell us about Sawatari and her hair ribbon? =)
Yeah, makes you wonder if Megumi might have tails and just be hiding them. I kinda doubt it though.

I had another theory that maybe Megumi had tails, but some other kitsune stole them. But they apparently have to kill you to do that, so unless this is Zomegumi, that theory probably doesn't fly either.

I told Fred that he needs to draw a picture of 20 years later. A grim looking Yaku showing 6 tails and laying flowers on Mugi's grave. "I avenged you Mom", she says as as tear rolls down her cheek. If Fred ever has time to do a commission again, I might try to talk him into that.

Fred is hip-deep in accounting and paperwork for his dad this morning, but he's planning to do the next comic next.
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Re: [1491] Visiting the Family Shrine [part 2]

Post by Invisigoth » Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:45 pm

I will only say this, in conversation with Fred my personal theory fell apart faster than a toilet paper shirt in a hurricane. Then I got to see just how truly dark and disturbing the kitsune mythos of MegaTokyo really is.

Were it anyone but myself I'm quite sure that they'd have been traumatized.

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Re: [1491] Visiting the Family Shrine [part 2]

Post by BetaCygnus » Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:53 pm

Reading both your replies, paarfi and Invisigoth, I can’t help but feel even more sorry for Yakugashi than I already did before these two last Sketchy Comics. I really do.

Yakugashi seems… different than the past generations of her family. Seems like she has actually been taught by her mom’s behaviour that she doesn’t want to follow Komugiko in *that*… and good on her, I will say. =)

No matter how dark and disturbing the family history or even their existence as a whole might be, I would really like it if Yakugashi would really break the dark habits. Being taught about the past of your own ancestry does not *have* to lead to her following in their footsteps — right? It might also cause her to steer away from the pitfalls in order not to go down the same path. =)

I guess Sawatari might be trying to be positively different as well — and doing quite a good job at it, at least when she’s not in the direct vicinity of her sister…

And who knows. Young ones breaking with old habits that are not their own have been known to cause family feuds to subside… haven’t they? I remember reading Wuthering Heights… =)

I guess I’d like a colourful drawing of Yakugashi on a picknick underneath a blooming tree — together with her great grandma, and Komugiko and Sawatari along with their mother. And they all having a great time together.

That child deserves to get her happy ending… in my view of things. =)
It’s Fred’s story. I’ll just wait and see…

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Re: [1491] Visiting the Family Shrine [part 2]

Post by Greymom » Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:14 pm

It is interesting that although Mugi's family seems to follow the Asian Kitsune mythology, and have Japanese names, they appear to have freckles. You might expect that a Red Fox in human form would have red hair, but freckles? That would be in line with the Gaelic "Bean Sionnaich" (fox woman), and I have seen the term "Bean Ruadh" (literally "red woman") also. Never found much in the way of detailed stories of fox people in Celtic/Gaelic folklore, and if anyone knows of any, I would be grateful for the reference!

Hopefully Mugi's family is no kin to the Korean Kumiho, who will eat your heart or liver, without fava beans.

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Re: [1491] Visiting the Family Shrine [part 2]

Post by S1arburst » Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:07 pm

So, if Kitsune are female fox-spirits, there's really no male Kitsune like Maldrul? :(
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Re: [1491] Visiting the Family Shrine [part 2]

Post by Greymom » Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:02 pm

There are a few tales which include male kitsune. They are generally depicted as older and wise.

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Re: [1491] Visiting the Family Shrine [part 2]

Post by Greymom » Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:19 pm

It is also said that if the sun is shining while it is raining, a Kitsune wedding is taking place. This is depicted in a segment of Akira Kurosawa's "Dreams" called "Sunshine in the Rain". You can find the clip on YouTube (not sure if I can post links).

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Re: [1491] Visiting the Family Shrine [part 2]

Post by BetaCygnus » Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:00 pm

zumHueriger wrote:
Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:47 am
I'm wondering what "the really afraid of?" might be that gave great-grandma that stricken look and fan her eight tails in the last panel - she'd kept them hidden till then...
Still, I’d guess Yakugashi’s really afraid of losing her mom. =/

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Re: [1491] Visiting the Family Shrine [part 2]

Post by maldrul » Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:35 pm

Greymom wrote:
Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:02 pm
There are a few tales which include male kitsune. They are generally depicted as older and wise.
"It is a profitable thing, if one is wise, to seem foolish" Aeschylus

If it is possible for a kitsune with nine tails to make *all* of them invisible, would it not also be possible to make *all but one* invisible? [smirk]
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Re: [1491] Visiting the Family Shrine [part 2]

Post by Ray Kremer » Fri Sep 01, 2017 4:22 pm

paarfi wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:04 pm
Yeah, makes you wonder if Megumi might have tails and just be hiding them. I kinda doubt it though.
This is one of those things where Fred might have absolutely no intention of Megumi being a secret kitsune, and then six months from now out of the blue he'll say, "Oh. She is after all. Why didn't I see it before? This works now."
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Re: [1491] Visiting the Family Shrine [part 2]

Post by Heywulf » Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:18 pm

I'd like to thank the members posting in the forum. This sequence is very interesting to me, but that also makes it hard to follow all the revelations and implications. Are there enough clues? What is missing from the conversation? The various postings help me to sort most of this out.

My main comment is 'ears'. Great-grams keeps her ears under control most all of this volatile confrontation & conversation. Even when her ear-expressions slip, that is only when Mugi isn't looking at her. Great-grams is willing to project calm in her authority and power, even with Mugi blustering and up in her face, with ears flat-back.

In Panel 1, I like seeing Great-grams' expression (which Mugi can't see)... I think that's the expression of a 9-tail Great-maw who knows that Mugi has taken the bait. She's looking forward to some *serious* teasing.

Panel 2, the teaching-trap is sprung. (Look at Great-Gram's "Teaching Question" face...) This is becomes the teaching time for Mugi. (It seems that any direct teaching for Yaku will be a bit later.) Mugi is seriously thinking about the questions, and the many answers that they have.

This was a difficult sequence to digest, because of "monsters". It may be different in MegaTokyo, but in English, "Monster" has at least 2 main meanings: 1) - A fabulous creature that can be frightening, ugly, or be intimidating in their appearance. 2) - A entity that is inhumanly wicked or cruel.

I think that Great-Gram's talking-point about the 3 of them being "monsters" is that they all 3 are Kitsune, and have the built-in capacity to be both types of "Monster". However, if they were to have 3 tails or more, they could pass for an ordinary human in appearance... and not look like a "Monster." Mugi and Yaku have decided not to mask their appearance (or can't). Perhaps they have the capacity to be inhumanly wicked or cruel. Do any of us in the forum really find any of these 3 MegaTokyo Kitsune to be frightening, ugly, or intimidating? (When off-work as a bouncer, anyway?)

Have any of these 3 shown the capacity to be inhumanly wicked or cruel? (I'll give Great-Gram a 'pass', if that was the kitsune culture of her youth and middle age.... She certainly seems concerned with both Mugi and Yaku's survival.)

One person has been left off of Great-Gram's list of relations. I'm beginning to expect that person will appear to be a very beautiful, elegant, & friendly human woman. But she may have demonstrated her capacity to be the other definition of a Monster.

(Thank you, forumites, for showing me Great-Gram's multiple tails.)

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Re: [1491] Visiting the Family Shrine [part 2]

Post by iffy » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:24 pm

Anything you can aggro is a monster. Which is just about everything in MT, so no big deal.

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Re: [1491] Visiting the Family Shrine [part 2]

Post by Patty Acer » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:54 pm

Toxic Granny Alert!! Great-Grandma Kitsune sure has the elderly people's habit of letting fly with whatever unfiltered thought pops in to her head.

Love 'Mugi in protective mom mode. And I personally think what Yakugashi fears above all else is losing her mother.

Looking forward to the next installment!

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Re: [1491] Visiting the Family Shrine [part 2]

Post by NinjaDefenestrator » Thu Sep 07, 2017 4:44 am

"Why don't ya figure out what she's really afraid of?"

This comic was oddly heartbreaking. Mugi was so young when her family cast her out, after what sounds like an emotionally abusive childhood made even worse by their treating her as (for want of a better term) a Squib. Worthless enough for them to destroy her without a second thought. No wonder she rebelled against their culture. Notice how she's a science teacher? Absolute rejection. It explains a lot of other things about her, although I suspect her temper and desire to help others are all her own.

And Yakugashi, holy shit. She's been protecting her mother ever since she was old enough to understand that Mugi was different. She's even willing to face her own magic to keep her mama safe from their relatives. Poor baby.

"Dark and disturbing" kitsune lore, hm? Now I'm curious about what might have unsettled Invisigoth. Given that there is no mention of male involvement in the Sawatari family, my guess is that Megatokyo kitsune reproduce by somehow destroying the men who impregnate them. I look forward to finding out the details.

(since Mugi's mother seems to have kept her in the dark about kitsune magic, Mugi might not have known what to expect before she had sex with Yaku's father- that would explain part of her fear and rejection)

(ooh...Junpei might be the first guy who's a match for her. this has excellent potential!)

Please keep feeding us stories about these people, Fred. You finally got me to like Mugi and Yaku instead of tolerating them. The Yuki-related subplots, not so much, but it'll be fun to see Largo meet Zomzomeko. What I really want to see is how Piro and Miho reconnect now that Miho has her story "paused" (according to Junpei), especially since Kimiko just unwittingly complicated things.

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Re: [1491] Visiting the Family Shrine [part 2]

Post by Sackett » Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:22 pm

Wow...

A lot going on here.

One thought that came to me is to wonder if Mugi would have been killed if she hadn't gotten pregnant. That teenage pregnancy might have been the only thing to keep her alive. Did Mugi know about this before getting pregnant? Even if Grams Kitsune wouldn't have killed her... what about her mother?

Getting a lot of vibes here that Mama Kitsune is very disappointed in having only a one tail for a daughter. That that is the real reason Mugi is outcast, not because she got pregnant. There are mythologies that involve mothers devouring daughters for power...

Another thought is to wonder if Megumi (and the human side of the family) is aware of all this. How would that change their perception of Mugi?

And finally the question at the end, what is Yaku really afraid of?

I thought that Yaku was afraid of being a monster. Afraid of being different. But that's what Grams seems to think too, and Mugi implies that's wrong and it's something different.

Is it that Yaku fears losing her mother? That seems to be the main idea in the forum here. That might explain why Yaku was rejecting being Kitsune, and why she seems closer to Megumi and the human family despite their hostile nature towards her mother. Yaku might classify them as "safe" family, despite their harsh condemnations.

I feel like it might be something different though.

One thing to consider is that just as there are mythologies of mothers devouring daughters for power, their are even more mythologies of daughters killing their mother for power.

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