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[1489] if he doesn't see me

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Re: [1489] if he doesn't see me

Post by jkhartl » Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:49 pm

As I recall Meimi is based on Mysterious Thief Saint Tail Meimi Haneoka, a high school student that transforms into the mysterious thief Saint Tail, and steals back what was stolen or taken dishonestly.

Meimi’s main pursuer and love interest is classmate Daiki Asuka, the son of Detective Tomoki Asuka.

As far as I know when exactly Masamichi and Meimi meet has not been disclosed but it has been implied that Masamichi was trying to capture Meimi.
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Re: [1489] if he doesn't see me

Post by paarfi » Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:48 pm

I always figured Masamichi was the "real" person behind Daiki Asuka [wikipedia], the detective's son and Meimi Haneoka's love interest from the Saint Tail anime. No proof of that one way or another yet though, I don't think.

EDIT: Ninja'd by jkhartl. :ninja:
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Re: [1489] if he doesn't see me

Post by GouryG » Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:19 am

HakuRyoku wrote:
Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:24 pm
I always figured Masamichi and Meimi were like Armitage and Ross (haven't watched poly-matrix yet, but that's what I assumed from watching dual-matrix)
Oh man that is a vintage title, I remember that as one of the first serieses I picked up when I began collecting Anime subbed on VHS in the large cases (yes I began collecting back in the mid 80s). I loved the Blade Runner overtones in the story. I won't spoil it for you, but Naomi has a bit of a surprise in the end.
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Re: [1489] if he doesn't see me

Post by Yl33 D4 N00b » Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:49 am

jkhartl wrote:
Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:49 pm
As I recall Meimi is based on Mysterious Thief Saint Tail Meimi Haneoka, a high school student that transforms into the mysterious thief Saint Tail, and steals back what was stolen or taken dishonestly.

Meimi’s main pursuer and love interest is classmate Daiki Asuka, the son of Detective Tomoki Asuka.

As far as I know when exactly Masamichi and Meimi meet has not been disclosed but it has been implied that Masamichi was trying to capture Meimi.
That makes perfect sense, given Fred's affection for the classics(though 15 years ago, they were a lot newer, lol).
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Re: [1489] if he doesn't see me

Post by darrin » Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:23 am

Yl33 D4 N00b wrote:
Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:36 am
He's just following orders.
Um, is that supposed to be considered evidence that someone is... not a bad guy?

If so, I... well, I can't think of any reasonable response that isn't an auto-Godwin.
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Re: [1489] if he doesn't see me

Post by Fujii Yakumo » Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:21 pm

darrin wrote:
Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:23 am
Yl33 D4 N00b wrote:
Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:36 am
He's just following orders.
Um, is that supposed to be considered evidence that someone is... not a bad guy?

If so, I... well, I can't think of any reasonable response that isn't an auto-Godwin.
Well, it can be argued that the rank-and-file German and Japanese soldiers and sailors kept on fighting in the winter, spring, and summer of 1945 not because they were "bad guys" but because they were loyal to their countries and countrymen, even though their governments were pretty rotten and criminal. They had reason to fear (in their own minds, anyway) what would happen if the enemy (the US and its allies) won the war. (That goes a long way to explaining why Germany and Japan kept on fighting long after it became clear to their leaders by late 1944 that the war was lost, and to the general population by early or mid-1945.)

If in fact there is such a thing as "Stability", and Masamichi is an agent of that entity, how culpable is he if he's just "doing his job" or "just following orders"? Whatever he is, he certainly isn't an Adolf Eichmann or a Vice Admiral Matome Ugaki.

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Re: [1489] if he doesn't see me

Post by darrin » Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:52 pm

Fujii Yakumo wrote:
Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:21 pm
the rank-and-file German and Japanese soldiers and sailors kept on fighting in... 1945 not because they were "bad guys"
Obviously there is a critical distinction between orders like "keep on shooting at the uniformed enemy combatants" and "keep on stuffing those folks in the ovens". The whole point is that saying "I was only following orders" isn't supposed to shield someone from the consequences of following the latter type; pointing out examples of the former type (proper orders that should indeed be obeyed by a trained soldier) is orthogonal to that.
how culpable is [Masamichi] if he's just "doing his job" or "just following orders"?
Similarly, that will depend on precisely which orders he chooses to obey. Whether or not to kill a teenage girl, for example. For some (in before Teddy-Werebear :D) killing one girl in particular could be considered the right thing to do, for the Good of the City and all that. Others might see it very differently.

Junpei has already drawn his line in the sand; he refuses to kill Miho even though he's been ordered to. It remains to be seen how Masamichi will choose if faced with a similar decision.
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Re: [1489] if he doesn't see me

Post by iffy » Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:47 pm

So are these suggestions on how to resolve the crisis, orders to kill, a murder contract, instructions to quickly neutralize the entire situation, or something else?

It's been said the duty of those in a legally sanctioned authoritarian organization is to follow orders, legal in the context, derived from the authority granted. To provide structure and rule of law rather than anarchy and chaos. Likewise then it is similarly a duty to refuse to follow illegal instructions. That instructions outside the scope of powers are not orders, because they do not derive from that authority. In that sense, instructions to commit criminal acts aren't orders, although what constitutes a criminal act vary depending on the systems in question. When following such illegal instructions, claiming you bear no responsibility for your actions, only and simply because somebody else told you to, is not, as many have found out, a viable legal defense in and of itself.

That's as applicable to whatever society and laws exist in and between nations during a period of time on some planet in some universe though. Our question would then be, in the case of modern day current Megatokyo, organizations such as the TPCD have what laws under which they operate? What is there in that context as regards dealing with giant monsters, analogues, ninja, magical girls, idols, mortal kombat visa holders, hybrid human non-human animals, robots? Sadly other than such as extrapolating our own sense and morality in some fictional direction, we are virtually blind on the details of what is legal, what is allowed, the exact extent of the scope of powers. What is the TPCD legally allowed to do, we only have what we've seen them engaged in and that we understand them to be a division of the police force. Likewise, we don't know if ninja or those contracting them (or magical girls or analogues or game company operatives and enforcers) have any authority behind them for anything or not. Other than they do things and nobody appears to stop them or most of the time create repercussions. We have seen there are some sort of parallels of involvement (contract to neutralize Largo has at least ninja and mg trying for it) and that there are hierarchy (rent a zilla breaks out prisoner and that appears the end of that, Miho tells Masamichi something is none of his business and he drops the subject). Perhaps then all such operate outside of even the concept of law, from needed aspects of the whole of society to immutable forces of nature. Or don't do any of those things and it's more like Gotham City or what happens when the Iotians get hold of Chicago Mobs of the Twenties.

Komugiko says to Junpei that ninja are part of that stability thing. Sounds rather official, but how does that work. What if any legal structures do agents of stability operate under. It appears something. Still we could ask, is she correct, or does he just not correct her. Likewise at one point, Meimi claims ninja only think they can solve problems by killing. Is she correct, or is he thinking or concerned about something else. Together there's not a Miho level of no information there, but it's hardly clear beyond that it seems ninja have a place in the structure, are official and sanctioned somehow, yet the extent undefined.

In the current situation, for 'this Tohya Miho', Junpei claims that he has direct orders from head ninja. But for exactly what behaviors and actions, we aren't told by Junpei. So far the impression we have been provided is something like it's 'for not dying'. But he doesn't specify that. No, all that's there is that Miho is the source, of great disturbances. Be that to humanity or society or stability or nothing much in particular doesn't appear too important to the disturb part. We hear what Mugi thinks about it, but also that Junpei doesn't comment upon it. What was the order given then? A very serious one indeed, emergency termination. Miho and many others believe or act as if that's dead, but as we've heard it doesn't have to involve dying. Which, as so far we've seen, it has not involved that. Perhaps then they put her on a plane and send her back to Ireland. Or on a spaceship to home galaxy. Into the cross-dimensional portal. Turned into energy and reconstituted back at the ASF.

All in all, it's not quite clear if these were orders or what exactly they were for.

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Re: [1489] if he doesn't see me

Post by darrin » Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:05 pm

Lingman wrote:
Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:47 am
You know Yuki is going to be in there like a flash to rescue Yutaka.
Not just Yutaka...
Liminaut wrote:
Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:24 pm
I'm figuring that the big boom is Miho's original breakout. That's going to put a big and likely terminal hurt on a lot of people. MG Yuki had better get her but in gear real soon now.
...but yeah, everyone else in the hospital too. Which is why, after thinking this over since last Thursday, I am even more convinced this is not a flashback / backtracking thing, and is just the next event chronologically in the sequence we've been following so far.

I mentioned unMod in a post above, and I don't think that's a thin connection. The last panel is obviously intended to emphasize the explosion and Yuki's reaction to it. The most likely intended direction is that it's time for Yuki to step up, to stop being an amateur magical girl and start earning her stars and sparklies :D by trying to help a lot of people who need it.

But if that is why she's here, then this can't be a flashback. If it is, then Miho, Kimiko, Junpei, Piro, Largo, Erika, and Megumi are all still in the building, and are among those to be pulled out of the building by Yuki. But we know that didn't happen, having followed all of their Yuki-less plot threads through the course of the chapter so far. Something would need to turn up to keep her out of the hospital for the next n strips, sufficient to distract her from the explosion (again, despite the placement of the explosion in the last panel to give it obvious emphasis as something important to the upcoming plot).

That's all I got though, given we've only got the one strip in the scene so far. ;) Probably still leaves me the only one on this side of the fence. :( :lol: No worries, just means there's more room to spread out a blanket, maybe get a little picnic going while we wait for the next strip. :D
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Re: [1489] if he doesn't see me

Post by iffy » Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:25 pm

Okay, so say it's after what we just saw in 1488 and before, no going back. If we remained in the same timeline we just left, some suitable explanation would seem to be that Yuki wasn't there for whatever Miho first did upon breaking out of the bed and hasn't been there (she did sleep for a while first for example) and didn't see the side(s) where the destruction was (and the extent of the destruction was a lot smaller than it seemed). That still might not seem to fit into why Yuki would still be saying what she is if she had left, slept, returned. It does not mean that is impossible though.

Yes perhaps Yuki has stayed here, and been here doing this same thing for quite a while, and what Miho first did had no outwardly observable effect to see. That Yuki isn't attuned to such things as have been going on to notice them either. Seems reasonably possible. So, if this is a new explosion and such, what is it? Lots of choices there as to what and why. We'll have to wait and see more than just two panels of it.

Most everything seems to point to the first calm panels and what Yuki says to establish it's soon after she visited Yutaka, with no destruction, and then the last two panels being Yuki hearing/seeing/feeling/sensing an oddity and then the initial breaking out results. Which certainly doesn't make it true. There are alternatives, which no matter how unseeming or unlikely, could be the actuality regardless.

No viewpoint is right or wrong until something gets established as fact, and all we have now is opinion.

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Re: [1489] if he doesn't see me

Post by darrin » Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:53 pm

iffy wrote:
Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:25 pm
Most everything seems to point to the first calm panels and what Yuki says to establish it's soon after she visited Yutaka, with no destruction, and then the last two panels being Yuki hearing/seeing/feeling/sensing an oddity and then the initial breaking out results.
Can't be too soon after her visit to Yutaka, she has had at least enough time to go home and change (cute but sedate jeans and jacket instead of fluffy sweater and tiny miniskirt), and to comb out and twintail her hair (modulo a little ruffling from the wind for however long she's been sitting on the cell tower) from the rather frantic state it was in in 1417.
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Re: [1489] if he doesn't see me

Post by Yl33 D4 N00b » Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:45 pm

darrin wrote:
Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:23 am
Yl33 D4 N00b wrote:
Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:36 am
He's just following orders.
Um, is that supposed to be considered evidence that someone is... not a bad guy?
There's also no evidence that Masamichi is a bad guy, either. Just because the TPCD is trying to take out Miho, doesn't mean that Masamichi is in the mix. If Fred thought it necessary to make Masamichi a bad guy, then he would've already made an appearance in this arc, in a leadership role.
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Re: [1489] if he doesn't see me

Post by iffy » Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:56 am

Why would killing something that won't die necessarily be a bad thing? Although Miho might think it is, depending on where she is in the switching between wanna live and gotta die mindset. Or maybe she doesn't at all really think it's bad or good. So far for everyone else, those on the "bad thing" side seem to be outnumbered. If right and wrong is determined by overall feelings, versus some objective moral scale. Which rather again begs the question, what even is she? Do such issues and questions apply to her, regardless of what she is or what she really knows or is really thinking.

How much do you trust the Analogue? I don't automatically accept all she says and does as true. "Ninja girl," whoever she is, certainly seems she doesn't either. Now that I think of it, most of the time most of those in MT don't believe her about much if anything; distrust, humoring her, outright scoffing, tentative sorts of okay. Sure, we could be wrong, but then again, so could everyone be wrong. Nobody knows yet.

That said, there might be critical reasons that the authorities are tasked with making sure this situation doesn't spiral out of control... any more than it has already. That there are meaningful, legal, important reasons why there are backups and contingencies and more. Plus, again, there are various things emergency termination might be. And pretty obviously (so far) non-lethal ways to go about it. Potentially. It's still ongoing, but for the moment, she is alive. Or is it ongoing? Is the situation over yet or not? More mystery to solve.

Aside from that the actual sentence is "Emergency termination order given." and a number of details aren't specified, including if that's for any of the things that are before and after it. The disturb, the thing causing it, the very serious, or something else. Perception-wise, it's only an assumption it refers only and directly to her to begin with, whatever the phrase means to Junpei. Also assuming he's not just paraphrasing something else or giving his interpretation or relaying intent or exaggerating to Komugiko rather than being safer with honor. Also perception-wise, consider what if the source of head ninja's information and plans of what to do, from was the same source of calling off the ranger zombies in Ikebukuro and who knows what else. It seems a very different spin depending on who in particular is giving these orders to begin with.

darrin wrote:
Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:53 pm
Can't be too soon after her visit to Yutaka, she has had at least enough time to go home and change (cute but sedate jeans and jacket instead of fluffy sweater and tiny miniskirt), and to comb out and twintail her hair (modulo a little ruffling from the wind for however long she's been sitting on the cell tower) from the rather frantic state it was in in 1417.
Unless she just went across the street and swipey stealy girled herself a new outfit ;) Although with how fast she is, maybe it's not any slower to go home instead. (Fast, or how she might have done again what she might have done in power-zoinking the giant zombie zilla out of cataclysm police scanning range in decimals of a second.)

Although It wouldn't seem she'd be able to keep up this sort of level of worry for all too long, at least not before coming to some conclusion (some way to justify to herself doing what she actually wants to do). Then again, she could have gone home, slept fitfully, changed clothing etc. And returned here before consciously starting to fret again, to speaking levels, and then decide to act, but only because she was here to do so.

Well, either way and whatever else, we don't know the timeline for whatever steps she's taken. Either way, what we're actually seeing depends on what we're actually being shown.

I am still guessing from outward appearances of everything around and her behavior that the last two panels are outward views of what happened when Miho extracted herself from the bed and tore things up. So she can get the failsafe to show up and kill her, or what have you. Even if it's not a different view of earlier and it's later, something pretty big is happening. Regardless if it's initial or again, we might find out what they're all exactly and actually up to. As always, depending upon what we're provided.

Isn't it awesome that even when the comics are faster we still get left wondering about so much for so long? :squeee:

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Re: [1489] if he doesn't see me

Post by darrin » Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:49 pm

Yl33 D4 N00b wrote:
Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:45 pm
There's also no evidence that Masamichi is a bad guy, either.
Well of course not, none yet. paarfi was talking about hypothetical future possibilities. I was riffing off that because it seemed like an interesting and potentially important idea.

EDIT:
(unrelated to the above, just didn't want to double post)

I've been thinking about that last panel. I don't think it's just the building collapsing from whatever damage Miho may have done to it; that's an explosion, with material propelled up and outward. So a bomb or artillery. Can't be Miho, all she had was a bed rail. Someone mentioned Ed earlier in the thread, but Fred tends to have him show up (or show off) before actually trying to cause damage.

The only ones who we've seen this chapter that have the ordinance to do something like this are the TPCD. Maybe I have gone too dark after "riffing off paarfi's ideas" :D (not paarfi's fault, my brain tends to go that way some days) but I am gradually succumbing to the idea that they have decided to destroy the hospital to make sure they get Miho.

Even weirder thought: what if the "FOOM!" we see here is the same as, or closely in sequence with, one of the "BRKOOOM!" and "KWHOOM!" of 1446? That is, the 1446 sounds weren't Miho trashing the place, but incoming TPCD artillery fire. (I never thought Miho caused the collapse of the hospital wing because Kimiko stopped her while the damage Miho had done was largely cosmetic. I think I had been assuming the fan boy horde pulled it down like they did the school, but they seem to show up much later, around 1465.)

That would indeed make this a flashback / backtracking (making all my previous posts in this thread completely wrong :roll:), but instead of Yuki being here to yank people out of the hospital, she would be here for a confrontation with the TPCD to stop them from destroying it. Possibly even a confrontation with Masamichi; someone has to be on the scene calling the shots after all. ("That's it, young lady, you are grounded!" "Oh yeah, well..." fwissh WHUMP "so's your air support.")

More likely I need to switch to new meds. :?
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Re: [1489] if he doesn't see me

Post by iffy » Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:12 pm

Interesting idea. I can't tell what happens in the last panel for sure, but it looks more like it's collapsing in en mass, more so from the inside, rather than being hit by anything someplace first outside. We don't hear anything like falling munitions or see anything dropping the last two panels apparently. But maybe orbital satellite? Perhaps we could compare to the weapon Ed fired or the retaliation back when to see about that. But for the time being, not clear. Which if this is after maybe somebody's decided to destroy all evidence of what just happened. Who knows. If it's before, that still seems it's Miho (and those inside trying to remove her) but that whole floor gets ruined pretty quick, so who knows there too.

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Re: [1489] if he doesn't see me

Post by darrin » Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:37 pm

iffy wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:12 pm
We don't hear anything like falling munitions or see anything dropping the last two panels apparently.
Well, in the next-to-last panel we are facing Yuki, not seeing what she's seeing; and it the last panel presumably the "hit" if any has already happened. So we wouldn't necessarily expect to see anything.

The lack of sound effects though is a strong counter-argument, yeah.
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Re: [1489] if he doesn't see me

Post by iffy » Fri Aug 18, 2017 5:14 pm

It's as if in the second to last panel she senses something, rather than hears or sees anything, then the last panel she sees an implosion or sinking sort of effect. I can't really think of a practical reason (that's not trickery or setting up a perceptual gotcha or something like that) to show her reacting to a sound that we aren't shown, or to show her seeing seeing something we can't, using her viewpoint to hide a visual outward sign of something. That's clouded to some extent by how I'm taking the last panel (that it doesn't look like something entering then exploding out or anything impacting) but either way if there is something, it was nothing we are shown.

That's also clouded by my initial feeling and conclusion from the perceived clues, that leads to starting out with a predisposition to consider this is earlier. Mostly based upon the visuals of the building, but also Yuki's attitude. Although how soon is too soon to stop worrying about your behavior, or how long has she been back if she left, or did she just change and come back instead of sleep, all nothing we can use to figure out the timing or specifics... other than that it seems sooner than later. Which does fit into how the building looks and what we see last two panels. If there's more (or less) then that could change things, it can only be certain if we see exactly when this is.

For the time being, our provided viewpoint seems in total to at the least highly suggest it's back before Miho starts behaving unhinged about the heart surgery and pacemaker and potentially drastic horrid aftereffects of having the story continuing and tears out of the bed and demolishes most of everything around her. And then leading from that extrapolating we're going to see it all from Yuki's side or perspective. Everything so far seems to either not conflict with that or to support it.

And we wait.... ;)

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Re: [1489] if he doesn't see me

Post by darrin » Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:12 pm

Yeah, looks like iffy's got me on this one, "silent but deadly" missiles would be kinda dumb.

It would be funny if, after all the times various MT craziness, like Ed's compensating-for-something plasma cannon, were blamed on earthquakes, this turned out to be an actual earthquake. That is, if the last panel shows the hospital collapsing from prior damage (and not an explosion), then what if the sounds in 1446 were due to an earthquake and not something the "mundanes" were once again mistaking for an earthquake.
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Re: [1489] if he doesn't see me

Post by DrunkenSailor » Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:22 am

I assume it's Largo and Erika attacking, being attacked, or just keeping up the distraction for the horde. They do not know yet that Miho and Kimikiho have gotten away and convincing a well supplied Largo to stop blowing things up is probably proving difficult. If that's the case then good. Yuki will investigate and help them defeat the horde easily, in front of Erika. Yuki would gain an intelligent and sane adult (Erika, possibly the only one in MegaTokyo) to talk to about this magical girl stuff.

It could also just be the TPCD destroying unexploded ordinance prior to rebuilding that wing of the hospital. Probably not though, I just thought I'd mention the possibility. The methods the TPCD uses, put up the shell of the building and everyone inside of it just reappears fine and dandy, don't seem like a few extra rockets or artillery shells left inside would make much of a difference. They seem to depend on something akin to magic, or sufficiently advanced it might as well be.

We still haven't heard any official casualty counts for the collapse of the school. Did anyone die? Was anyone permanently crippled or disfigured? Mugi's leg is still broken. We haven't even heard anyone ask the question since the initial casualty response yesterday.

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Re: [1489] if he doesn't see me

Post by Invisigoth » Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:14 pm

Largo is currently stoned out of his mind and he didn't have a reload for the rocket launcher.

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Re: [1489] if he doesn't see me

Post by iffy » Mon Aug 21, 2017 3:00 pm

Aside from Largo being out of ammo and experiencing hospital chemical happiness, it seems a bit too soon to rebuild while things are still ongoing, at any time up to and perhaps even after what appeared to be an escape, if this is afterwards.

Problems with Erika assisting/following/teaching/mentoring an MG might stem from:

A. Being enamored of somebody doesn't necessarily disqualify them from everything, but as long as she's playing along or supporting his skewed and delusional fantasy way of seeing most things, her outlook might not be 100% trustworthy in all thing. Plus, Yuki's already got some lessons from Largo in that regard. Not that Erika isn't clearly more practical even now to begin with, but still.
B. She makes a terrible MG in real life said a real life MG. Although that was a while ago. But Idols (upcoming, current and ex) have their own powers already, and they somewhat seem to run counter to those of MG.
C. Perhaps more importantly, Yuki has shown herself to be to some extent immune to much of what Miho does. Yes, she gets herself dragged into the situation following, and then played into providing an out at the bath house. But is able to draw off The Horde rather than get yanked into the drama parts of the story. Erika however was apparently folded into the kids passing notes in class thing without her own knowledge of such, a more of an actress role sort of thing than a champion of love thing.
D. Maybe even it isn't that either Yuki would ask for or flex for help, or that Erika would be able to stop from keeping Largo from doing anything more stupid even if Yuki begged or did something amazing. Whatever Yuki might do that Erika would find amazing after just charming her way through things.

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Re: [1489] if he doesn't see me

Post by Invisigoth » Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:13 am

I believe that Iffy has hit the nail on the head here. The fact is that Erika has become an enabler for Largo and seems to do almost anything he wants in an effort to get attention from him. Never forget that at the dinner party, where Erika had pleaded with Largo to behave as it was important to her, Largo promptly wrecked everything and then hared off in pursuit of Yuki with Erika's feelings and desires not even being an afterthought.

I know people love the paring for Odin knows why and Fred loves writing their dialogue but that dialogue is revolves around fundamental misunderstandings between Largo and Erika and Erika's progressively more pathetic drive to keep Largo happy

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Re: [1489] if he doesn't see me

Post by Ray Kremer » Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:54 pm

Invisigoth wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:13 am
I believe that Iffy has hit the nail on the head here. The fact is that Erika has become an enabler for Largo and seems to do almost anything he wants in an effort to get attention from him. Never forget that at the dinner party, where Erika had pleaded with Largo to behave as it was important to her, Largo promptly wrecked everything and then hared off in pursuit of Yuki with Erika's feelings and desires not even being an afterthought.

I know people love the paring for Odin knows why and Fred loves writing their dialogue but that dialogue is revolves around fundamental misunderstandings between Largo and Erika and Erika's progressively more pathetic drive to keep Largo happy
Well, Largo was able to pull Erika out of her self-imposed pit of depression via some combination of stupidity and dumb luck (mostly his weird and often misdirected overzealousness to help anybody he's identified as an ally, solely for the sake of helping), so he's become rather important to her. And because she started actually paying attention to what he says, she understands how he functions better than anybody, both the method and the madness. Using the dinner as an example, Erika's position was basically, "Well you royally fucked that up. I assume you have a damn good reason, because you bloody well had better have a damn good reason." And it turned out he had a good reason (though perhaps not a damn good reason, because he has trouble assigning priorities to things accurately).

At this point I think Erika's decided that whatever crusade Largo wants to be on at any given moment is good enough for her to tag along to see if she can help, if only because she has nothing better to do with her life anymore, it'll probably turn out to have been for a good cause, and because Largo's more likely to get himself killed without somebody sane looking out for him.

Basically with the life she's had, the crazy train seems like a great ride.
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Re: [1489] if he doesn't see me

Post by iffy » Fri Aug 25, 2017 2:59 pm

Erika was fairly recently quite violently breaking things like peoples arms and legs. Somebody perhaps even as hazardous to herself as to her fans, detractors and random people. When anonymity doesn't work, when somebody is too pushy, just smash things. We've seen that a few times, done or threatened, and not just to Largo. We start from a point with Erika where she is impatient and angry. Or possibly once our favorite gentlemen get to MT and the book is opened and the narrative morphs, she is broken and grieving. Whichever way whenever whatever happened, dangerous. Sometimes very dangerous. Potentially catastrophically dangerous, and to the extent the TPCD tentatively hires cannon fodder mortal kombat wild crazy non standard alien people to keep others safe from her. The authorities seem willing to grasp at straws in trying to keep Erika more retired and out of sight and mind doing it.

Yes, to some meta extent this is not always serious stuff necessarily, as the TPCD is like many others in MT at times somewhat bumbling and lighthearted. Except when they're not, or when a situation isn't. What else might be expected from them. Miffed at Zillas and Ninjas busting up the jail when they've just fixed it, at Dom and Ed destroying buildings and making the zombies with permits upset, losing track of EMG. Don't forget budget, and orbital satellites, and dealing with soused up giant reptiles. That is to say; grain of salt.

Back to Erika. Of course given everything she's going to be how she was (is). Emotionally destroyed, psychically crushed, psionically obliterated. Belittled and mocked for no good reason (at least from her side of the story and what Masamichi and Meimi have said about it). Just being herself and working at being successful, the last person who should have been giving her grief. A jealous little toady of a poor small man not worthy of her trust, who made her feel like she was to blame for his lack of character and decency. The cowardly way to implement the desire to not be at all involved with the weirdness of being on the inside. After it all happened, Erika's reaction was to then force that rageful reaction elsewhere, culminating in alienating everyone in her audience far beyond anything anywhere near safe. When she told them the truth and broke their illusions and lashed out at them in frustration, it created problems so large, to a degree where one such as Miho had to absorb it all to contain it. Apparently to remove an otherwise city-crushing or larger outcome. What seems even a societal-scale emotional nuclear reactor blast episode, put her in a state where she was socked away, an incognito and mentally and emotionally dampened hollow-hearted store clerk nobody recognizes. Like what Miho explains to Kimiko about Kotone. And there Erika is, until somebody who isn't just a random walking along following a path shows up. Someone who doesn't care about all those other things and isn't focused on artifice puts her sense of perspective back in line with some form of reality and normalcy,at least as far as MT is concerned. There was an emotional breakthrough when they discuss (Largo overacts out his grandiose perceptions) all that, just phrased in a game's context. Interacting with Largo she started actually feeling real feelings, not just going through the motions. Erika had been watching it all unfold, she noticed things, had her eyes opened (like so often, seemingly when the ninja is there and did take Largo out of the window to elsewhere).

So Largo told Erika things that he thought true (in his way of putting things) and he didn't lie to her (maybe not much at least) or tell her only what she wanted to hear (most of the time probably). Eventually, perhaps not wanting the change, or not sure it was real, she tried to get rid of him. He left, which seems to have impressed her even more. So the stupid crazy guy gets the ultra hot model type; a favorite of your American sitcoms so often, nothing odd there. Except maybe this time it turns out she's to some extent a stupid crazy gal as well, and maybe he's pretty good looking too. It's not too difficult to believe that somewhere inside, they are both similar enough, and that's at least good enough for both of them despite all their false starts and rocky times. Nobody needs to like it or agree with it, and they clearly are unconcerned about such things. We might expect nothing else.

All in all, still, it might only be pathetic and obsessive and about getting the positive reinforcement and admiration of another. Or it could just be that thinking and acting like Largo (on a much smaller scale) (apparently) is usually more what Erika is really like in actuality. She doesn't seem in many ways all that typically Japanese socially and culturally to some, although that might just be all the acting and appearances making it seem so. Perhaps being around him, she's just become nearly as nutty (just with a large helping of practicality on top) as he is. That she merely does things he happens to find superlative; not that she is trying to do things he will find awesome, but she does things he happens to think are. He does appear to be hamming things up purposely for her, and she appears humoring him to some degree. Which maybe then yes, this is mostly all an act on her part, after all, she's a elementally good actress. Or it might only be she's spent so long without knowing most anyone (aside from Yanagisawa and Kimiko) who doesn't behave only because they think Erika will like it. Those that become who they are not only because of who she is. Perhaps she finds whatever honesty and lack of ulterior motive, no matter how insane and unstable, to be what she wants. And so she puts up with the rest. It doesn't matter if she's correct or not in what she thinks, just that she believes it. Like so much, we can't tell which scenario is the true or even if things are any of those ways at all. In the realm of feelings, that seems to hold little importance.

While Erika does ask Largo to calm down and be normal at dinner, it appears he explains it to her (she gets it even if we don't) and the way she reacts (even if we don't understand the reaction) informs him that if it's as important as he suggests, to continue. Or that at least she's okay with it, asking follow up questions rather than shutting it down. That interaction doesn't seem to be him ignoring her wishes, but rather the two of them being close enough to have a conversation not all of us can translate. That they came to an agreement on a course of action, such as where do we rendezvous if things go bad, just as much as they decided to go to the CoE together. Which that's another example, even though to our perspective it's for vastly different reasons, they want to CoE it. And at the end of the night, already have a plan to fix things when they go wrong, already have a way to rescue somebody, which turns out to be Miho. A generic plan for Yuki, or Ping, or perhaps even planned specifically for Miho based upon tentative plans after learning more. A plan that works well and Erika gets rewarded with the further adventures a princess so richly deserves. Her reaction on top of the train, echoed on the way back in the car, isn't much a type that requires large amounts of nuanced guesswork to understand.

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Re: [1489] if he doesn't see me

Post by Ningen » Fri Aug 25, 2017 7:09 pm

TL:DR; He may be an idiot, but he's her idiot.
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