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[1489] if he doesn't see me

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[1489] if he doesn't see me

Post by piro » Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:00 am

Yay, new comic posted!

note: i'll be posting the new comic to the main site today rather than tomorrow because i'm going to be AFK for a couple of days. Enjoy!

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Re: [1489] if he doesn't see me

Post by paarfi » Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:50 am

lol. Poor Yuki. That's really cute.

I wonder what the explosion is. Maybe Largo, Erika, and her minions still fighting the horde?
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Re: [1489] if he doesn't see me

Post by Invisigoth » Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:00 am

paarfi wrote:
Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:50 am
lol. Poor Yuki. That's really cute.

I wonder what the explosion is. Maybe Largo, Erika, and her minions still fighting the horde?
I think this is skipping back to the events prior

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Re: [1489] if he doesn't see me

Post by chemi » Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:23 am

And this is where Yuki discovers Yutaka was killed in a freak accident, thus beginning her spiral into a dark magical girl where love is a lie and the only thing that exists is varying degrees of pain, forcing her mother to kill her before she consumes all of the city in her dirge of despair.

Oops! /spoilertag

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Re: [1489] if he doesn't see me

Post by Lingman » Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:47 am

We need a clock/calendar in the corner.... I'm getting lost in the timeline here - is this before or after what we've already seen. i.e. is this the explosion that was Miho getting out of Bed, Largo using his Splody Tube or what? Or is this taking place after the inevitable rebuild of the hospital by the TPCD?

You know Yuki is going to be in there like a flash to rescue Yutaka. Hopefully he survives the attempt.

Personally, I'd like to think this is the return of Ed, and him attempting to take out Miho by exploding the hospital, but I know he'd do a slightly more complete job of it.

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Re: [1489] if he doesn't see me

Post by iffy » Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:09 pm

Morning earlier, hanging around hospital like Yuki had been, in good position to notice whatever external (at least) happened with the TPCD and the rest, when it happened. Most of it noticeable by an MG, if not most everyone anywhere attuned, normals affected by it, and even those not affected except by being around the results of an angry panicking Analogue.

Yuki appears here emoing for a bit after what she just did recently by the sound of it. If the Miho "getting out of bed" and kicking off the next scene etc had already happened, Yuki should have noticed, and then gone to do something. But she is sitting on cell tower thinking worrying anxious regretful right afterwards fresh. Then boom. As if only one big thing has happened, which would have been what kicked things off.

Aside from Yuki herself, hospital appears largely untouched and not noticeable as abnormal until last panels. Appears this is before Miho tearing down entire floor sections and such. Before plans and plots and Piro carrying Kimiko through all the destruction which was wrought. Before Megumi driving through the closed off streets and armored vehicles.

'twould seem then we're going to find out what Yuki has been doing instead of going home.

Awesomely ultra to get the events from other participants and other perspectives. Who knows what might be learned! But one thing's nearly certain. It's gonna be schweeeeet.
Last edited by iffy on Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: [1489] if he doesn't see me

Post by darrin » Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:14 pm

chemi wrote:
Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:23 am
forcing her mother to kill her before she consumes all of the city in her dirge of despair.
"No, Mother, you only thought you killed me. Rather sloppy of you. But don't worry, it's certainly the last mistake you'll ever make!" <shoots lightning bolts out of her fingers or whatever>

Ahem. Anyway, I now see (EDIT: well, from the transcripts :D) that Ririka is in panel 5 of 1413 when junpei brings Mugi in (I mean it hadn't clicked for me before that that's Ririka). When she pops into Yutaka's room in 1415, it's technically possible that she has gone from the hospital where Mugi is (and where Miho ends up) to the one Yutaka is in, but is seems vastly more likely to me that she has just gone to his room after her shift ends and it is the same hospital.

While it might make some sense (and be fun :D) to have "gone back" to show what Yuki was doing earlier this morning while all the Miho-Kimiko-Piro-Megumi-Miho-Junpei-Ninjagrrl-Junko-Ping-Meimi-Cha-Zomiko stuff was going on (yes I said Miho twice :P), I'm betting on it being current events and not a time skip. For one thing Fred doesn't tend to mess with time like that :lol:. First time for everything though especially given all the craziness (even by MegaTokyo standards) in this chapter so far, so I don't consider that an extremely strong argument. In a narrative sense though Meimi has basically just said "where's Yuki?" in the previous strip so I get a much stronger feeling that we have switched to where Yuki is now.

Which would mean that the explosion we are seeing is all new mayhem and not mayhem we've already been exposed to. And ""yet more mayhem" is something Fred does tend to do. :lol:
Last edited by darrin on Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: [1489] if he doesn't see me

Post by iffy » Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:36 pm

As far as anyone knows, it's established as one place, and everyone is in the same hospital, and it's the same hospital that is also the analogue support facility. Miho going ballistic and tearing up the joint is happening where all the school people and everyone else has gone to. If this was after it all happened, it would have had to have been on a side that Yuki wouldn't have noticed anything going on, which even if she was a normal would seem unlikely. Given what we saw in hospital and on ground after Miho tears up rooms and floors, the various special troops and hero forces, the roadblocks and mechs, there isn't much doubt this is before all that, unless something even odder is happening.

So it seems clear (unless there are multiple hospitals where there's only been one established, there are alternate universes and we're in another one, something like Yuki's having a dream) that we've gone back to see things from another angle from the start. More likely, especially since showing Yuki's part interspersed with all the rest wouldn't have worked in the way going back would. Or really, not worked at all, and even more so if it's headed anywhere near where it might be.

Rather seamless way to answer the subject we're wondering about and Meimi brought up, where was Yuki what has she been doing, by going back to it and giving it its own episode. Great way to potentially answer a number of questions without going all cheap and sloppy by having somebody monologue a summary. All the style and skill we've grown to expect.

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Re: [1489] if he doesn't see me

Post by GouryG » Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:24 pm

It would seem that we have backed up a little an the explosion we see is when all hell breaks loose. If something would have already happened at the hospital, she would have gone running to investigate seeing that all her friends are there including her new love of her life. I can see her teleporting into Yutaka's room to see if he's alright, but just for fun, seeing how she is still getting a handle on her powers, she materializes over his bed and lands right on top of him just as someone enters the room to find them in a position that looks like they are making out in his bed.
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Re: [1489] if he doesn't see me

Post by BetaCygnus » Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:27 pm

Ah. The liberty of literary time shifting. =)

A cute return to Yuki. Well, girl, if you think *this* is POOF, wait’ll ya get home…!

=)

Thanks for the swift update, Fred!!! =)

By the way. Second to last panel, Yuki seems to be picking up something right *before* the FOOM.

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Re: [1489] if he doesn't see me

Post by Tangent » Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:45 pm

You have to wonder if her efforts to save Chewtoy without hurting him by using her powers is why she didn't interfere or intervene with Miho's situation. And there is plenty she CAN do like move debris out of the way or block it while wheeling Chewtoy's bed (or wheelchair) out of the way...

Be also fun if Yuki ends up meeting a certain two-tailed girl... ^_^

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Re: [1489] if he doesn't see me

Post by Rapierman » Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:22 pm

...and more teen angst ensues, followed by a little hilarity, and then we have to put that aside and figure out what happened in that explosion.
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Re: [1489] if he doesn't see me

Post by darrin » Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:23 pm

iffy wrote:
Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:36 pm
So it seems clear... that we've gone back to see things from another angle from the start. More likely, especially since showing Yuki's part interspersed with all the rest wouldn't have worked in the way going back would. Or really, not worked at all...
So you're saying Fred is capable of dealing with all the Miho-Kimiko-Piro-Megumi-Miho-Junpei-Ninjagrrl-Junko-Ping-Meimi-Cha-Zomiko plotlines interspersed, but throw one little Yuki in the mix and suddenly he's no longer able to handle it?

Sorry but I gotta call bullshit on that one. There have been more scene changes in this chapter so far than in any, I dunno, call it three full previous chapters. Heck, the last "scene" with Meimi et al. was literally a single strip long (the Junko-Ping scene before that was only two strips).

Fred's got more balls in the air than ever before, he is tossing new ones up as we speak, and not one of them has hit the floor yet. If Yuki was doing anything important this morning he would have shown it. The idea that tossing in two or three more scene changes (amongst all the others we've had this chapter) to show all the cool important stuff Yuki was doing would "not [have] worked at all" is in my opinion underestimating "All the style and skill we've grown to expect." More likely she was moping in her room again until the Yutaka Question drove her crazy enough to bug out (either coincidentally before Meimi and guest knocked on her door, or maybe Yuki heard them coming and didn't want to deal with it? Probably not important.)

The argument regarding the hospital damage is a much stronger one. My working hypothesis is that Yuki is on the opposite side of the building from where the initial damage was, and that she's too Yutaka-addled to have noticed anything so trivial as TPCD mechs milling about side streets. (There aren't any visible in panel 8 at least; maybe they have expanded their perimeter, on failing to detect the Rogue Analogue in the initial one?)

On that note, and getting back to the comic at hand, a hospital in the process of rapid collapse, with dozens or even hundreds of patients and staff still inside... I am suddenly reminded of unMod.
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Re: [1489] if he doesn't see me

Post by Ray Kremer » Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:54 pm

Invisigoth wrote:
Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:00 am
paarfi wrote:
Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:50 am

I wonder what the explosion is. Maybe Largo, Erika, and her minions still fighting the horde?
I think this is skipping back to the events prior
Wondering that myself, but perhaps the wreckage is just still settling.
iffy wrote:
Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:36 pm
As far as anyone knows, it's established as one place, and everyone is in the same hospital, and it's the same hospital that is also the analogue support facility. Miho going ballistic and tearing up the joint is happening where all the school people and everyone else has gone to.
Well, all of that is the same hospital, but Piro didn't take Miho to the secret wing, he took her in the regular front door. (The "young woman with cardiac arrest" mentioned in panel 1 of 1413 is implied to be Miho.) That's entirely the point behind why she got a pacemaker rather than being left to die and resurrect again.
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Re: [1489] if he doesn't see me

Post by Ningen » Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:47 pm

With Yuki now pole-sitting, is she yet another candidate to replace Miho?
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Re: [1489] if he doesn't see me

Post by maldrul » Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:44 pm

Ningen wrote:
Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:47 pm
With Yuki now pole-sitting, is she yet another candidate to replace Miho?
She was the first one to pretend to be Miho
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Re: [1489] if he doesn't see me

Post by Teddy-Werebear » Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:25 am

Awwww, she could not stay away from her young love.

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Re: [1489] if he doesn't see me

Post by marsonkhan » Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:52 am

chemi wrote:
Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:23 am
And this is where Yuki discovers Yutaka was killed in a freak accident, thus beginning her spiral into a dark magical girl where love is a lie and the only thing that exists is varying degrees of pain, forcing her mother to kill her before she consumes all of the city in her dirge of despair.
"Well," says Meimi, wiping her hands, "at least now I have another daughter to take care of. How about a hug, Zomika?"

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Re: [1489] if he doesn't see me

Post by paarfi » Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:38 am

Ray Kremer wrote:
Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:54 pm
Well, all of that is the same hospital, but Piro didn't take Miho to the secret wing, he took her in the regular front door. (The "young woman with cardiac arrest" mentioned in panel 1 of 1413 is implied to be Miho.) That's entirely the point behind why she got a pacemaker rather than being left to die and resurrect again.
The morality of a lot of this stuff is interesting. In this instance, we have a secret wing of a hospital staffed with medical types that tries to ease the pain of Miho (and others) dying, but does nothing to try to prevent it. Even though preventing it is clearly within their power (as we see now with the pacemaker), because letting Miho die over and over is for the greater good, even if it is terrible for Miho herself. In a larger sense, the TPCD, NinjaCorp, and presumably much of the rest of the power structure of megatokyo is part of this as well, through Stability. And now that Miho is off-story, they're going to put her back on-story, even if it means killing her and is against her will.

It's a classic "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" thing. The key thing with that question is informed consent. When Spock sacrificed himself in "The Wrath of Khan" to save the Enterprise, he did so with full understanding and of his own free will; it was in the best heroic tradition. When Kyubey tricked so many girls into sacrificing themselves to save the universe, it was in the best villain tradition. If Miho consented to be sacrificed to her story before (and I don't think she did), she clearly does not now. Stability's attempt to make her do so against her will and without her consent, puts them in the wrong morally and makes them the new villains here.

I'm sure few involved in Stability and related organizations would see themselves this way. They're protecting Tokyo; they're the good guys, right?. Kyubey thought his actions were moral and right as well, but you don't have to be an alien to trip over this. It can be difficult, even for the most well-meaning of folks. I think Fred has done a nice job of handling that.

We've seen Junpei make his choice (Mugi too, since the CoE crowd has a similar dilemma). And I'm guessing Ninjagrrl has as well. But what will happen if Kenji or Masamichi, for example, have to make a choice? As much as I like them, I'm going to guess this won't be easy for them, should Fred decide to put them on the spot. It'll be interesting to see, anyway.
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Re: [1489] if he doesn't see me

Post by darrin » Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:06 pm

paarfi wrote:
Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:38 am
I'm sure few involved in Stability and related organizations would see themselves this way. They're protecting Tokyo; they're the good guys, right?.
Oh man, that will be wacky... all of Ed's murderous shenanigans and even Teddy-Werebear's interpretation of Miho as the Evil One turn out to be small change, and Masamichi ends up being the real villain of the story. :shock:
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Re: [1489] if he doesn't see me

Post by Liminaut » Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:24 pm

I'm figuring that the big boom is Miho's original breakout. That's going to put a big and likely terminal hurt on a lot of people. MG Yuki had better get her but in gear real soon now.

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Re: [1489] if he doesn't see me

Post by iffy » Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:23 pm

darrin wrote:
Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:23 pm
iffy wrote:
Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:36 pm
So it seems clear... that we've gone back to see things from another angle from the start. More likely, especially since showing Yuki's part interspersed with all the rest wouldn't have worked in the way going back would. Or really, not worked at all...
So you're saying Fred is capable of dealing with all the Miho-Kimiko-Piro-Megumi-Miho-Junpei-Ninjagrrl-Junko-Ping-Meimi-Cha-Zomiko plotlines interspersed, but throw one little Yuki in the mix and suddenly he's no longer able to handle it?
Not capability of author, the story mostly, and decisions revolving around making such live. Applicability, appropriateness, desire, functionality, flow, artistic decision, what have you. If the story is being told a certain way, and this is a 'meanwhile' detailing other matters, the effect of what we learn versus what we think we know might only work 'correctly' if it's put together as another, fuller, narrative. That story-wise, including what Yuki is doing as well in the same context based against the rest, would not have been equivalent to going back and seeing whatever Yuki is doing from her perspective and actions. With her as the focus and locus. That could fill in a number of other things we wouldn't know about when we were observing those ostensibly faking Miho's death for the consumption of those in Megatokyo who wanted/needed/demanded/required things go 'like they were supposed to go'.
It's another matter showing something like Junpei taking care of the Otaku without having to know details in order to know what they were generally up to beforehand. Or have to watch Megumi before meeting Piro and Kimiko or while she is getting the vehicle, we can fit that all in from what we have. Straightforward uncomplicated direct most likely, probably nothing more to learn. What though if Megumi had done something we needed to know, or that shed light on some other aspect we wouldn't have been aware of, or changed the nature of what we later see. That might then deserve its own story, back when it happened, maybe even regardless if there was nothing surprising there.
If Yuki was doing anything important this morning he would have shown it.
Unless there was too much there to easily fit. Unless it explained things viewers shouldn't have a perspective on while watching those other streams of consciousness. Unless it was so important it should have its own separate flow and timing. Unless it put a spin on what we think is true by giving us more information about something we don't know. Unless it was more awesomesauce to show it by itself. Et cetera.
The idea that tossing in two or three more scene changes (amongst all the others we've had this chapter) to show all the cool important stuff Yuki was doing would "not [have] worked at all" is in my opinion underestimating "All the style and skill we've grown to expect."
The style and skill comment had more to do with how lesser authors might just explain everything by having some character monologue a summarized explanation rather than providing it somehow through story as this seems to be doing. If it's more appropriate to lay out 'what we know' first from one direction, then add to or change it with new information, going back seems the way to go about it.
Say like seeing some portion of a robbery first from police perspectives, then that of the criminals, then melding the two, perhaps then again showing the customers or bystanders or dispatchers, filling in or add even more that enhances or changes what's going on. Bouncing between them all in real time might not be the best way to do that. Or maybe it just creates a different story, which might be okay too, or might just ruin what could have been good. And what if the story involves participants who are witches and immortal Irish goddesses that create craft and change the stories through their various actions or lack thereof.
I expect that if 1489 is a return to before Miho gives off that anxious frustrated vibe, and then visibly tears apart the bed, room, hallway, floor (as the situation appears to be so far) then the style and skill will be the use of appropriate methods to have the story itself best tell us why we went back.
More likely she was moping in her room again until the Yutaka Question drove her crazy enough to bug out (either coincidentally before Meimi and guest knocked on her door, or maybe Yuki heard them coming and didn't want to deal with it? Probably not important.)
It is entirely possible Yuki went home and came back later rather than hung out all night. Unless she didn't. But if so, when later. Soon before Miho breaks free. The freshness of Yuki's angst, her overall attitude, and the lack of demolished building, troops, large robots and debris highly suggests this is before it all, as do the behavioral and visible clues. Then the last two panels, we pretty much see it's right before it all starts.


Ray Kremer wrote:
Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:54 pm
Well, all of that is the same hospital, but Piro didn't take Miho to the secret wing, he took her in the regular front door. (The "young woman with cardiac arrest" mentioned in panel 1 of 1413 is implied to be Miho.) That's entirely the point behind why she got a pacemaker rather than being left to die and resurrect again.
Not so much implied as eventually lampshaded. ;)

Yes, not that the ambulance took her to the ASF or anything. But that there is only one hospital, they're all at it, and in 1489 Yuki feels something is wrong and sees the initial destruction, at that same place.

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Re: [1489] if he doesn't see me

Post by Liminaut » Sat Aug 12, 2017 12:49 am

If we have a narrative with several plot lines going at the same time, there are two ways to handle it:
1) Rapidly shift back and forth between plot lines, like Peter Jackson does in the movie "Lord of the Rings".
2) Stick with one plot line a while until it has reached a resolution, as JRR Tolkien does in "Lord of the Rings".

Either way works; it seems Fred is going with option 2), taking longer with each plot line before coming back to others.

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Re: [1489] if he doesn't see me

Post by Yl33 D4 N00b » Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:36 am

Yuki still doesn't realize, even though she's been told, that Yutaka loves her, and would like nothing more than her to visit him. Her deal is that she doesn't love him the same way, and is embarassed by becoming overcome with emotion, and kissing him. Not ladylike at all! :lol:

Masamichi as the true villain? Nah. He's just following orders. Just had a thought; how the heck did Masamichi and Meimi become a Thing in the first place? I guess butter and dry toast do go together..... :roll:
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Re: [1489] if he doesn't see me

Post by HakuRyoku » Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:24 pm

I always figured Masamichi and Meimi were like Armitage and Ross (haven't watched poly-matrix yet, but that's what I assumed from watching dual-matrix)
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