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[1550] Raging noises

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Re: [1550] Raging noises

Post by Invisigoth » Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:11 pm

I think that quite a few of the readers are forgetting that Ashe and all of the other kitsune are monsters and will not respond in an entirely human manner.

Prostitution? Nothing wrong with that, it's both profitable and fun, even if you're one of the tailless members of the Sawatari clan.

Murdering other kitsune so that their tail (as well as their spine) can be ripped out and magically fused to the tail thief? Well, that's something we don't discuss in these modern times....especially if there are humans present....

Boot your pregnant teen daughter out onto the streets to fend for herself and risk being murdered and have her tail ripped out by the previously mentioned tail thieves? That sort of thing didn't harm Mugi's mom's reputation

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Re: [1550] Raging noises

Post by paarfi » Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:42 pm

Invisigoth wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:11 pm
I think that quite a few of the readers are forgetting that Ashe and all of the other kitsune are monsters
Well, to be fair, none of that is all that uncommon for regular humans either. Other than the tail thing, of course.
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Re: [1550] Raging noises

Post by Teddy-Werebear » Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:15 am

darrin wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:51 am
I continue to predict that the "creeper" crowd will end up longing for the day when he used to be merely a "creepy pedophile" and not the existential horror Fred will craft him into.
Oh, I totally feel you on the Buffalo Bill vibe Dr. Feelgood gives off D. That grim, detached look of disdain as he takes the picture is an indicator of his sociopath and psychopath leanings. All the really bad ones seem to start out as creepers before they go flying off the rails on the crazy train.

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Re: [1550] Raging noises

Post by Roamer » Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:30 am

Invisigoth wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:11 pm
I think that quite a few of the readers are forgetting that Ashe and all of the other kitsune are monsters and will not respond in an entirely human manner.

Prostitution? Nothing wrong with that, it's both profitable and fun, even if you're one of the tailless members of the Sawatari clan.

Murdering other kitsune so that their tail (as well as their spine) can be ripped out and magically fused to the tail thief? Well, that's something we don't discuss in these modern times....especially if there are humans present....

Boot your pregnant teen daughter out onto the streets to fend for herself and risk being murdered and have her tail ripped out by the previously mentioned tail thieves? That sort of thing didn't harm Mugi's mom's reputation
Nonhumans. Not necessarily monsters. You can't automatically use the same standard of values to judge them. If kitsune in MT are magically transformed foxes as many of the legends suggest, they will be shaped by their biology. When a group of young animals are born they usually compete for access to milk. With foxes other females help nuture the kits but they can't provide milk for the very young- so the weak are removed from the pack by starvation. That's no more monstrous to them than the fact that a human embryo may absorb another embryo if there's more than one present (known as a chimera, as the survivor will have two sets of DNA). Personally I find the embryo absorbing more disturbing, but both are natural, albeit somewhat creepy, processes.

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Re: [1550] Raging noises

Post by BetaCygnus » Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:05 am

darrin wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:51 am
BetaCygnus wrote: And what gives her the right to interfere with Junko? She doesn’t even know what she said to Ping…
It might help not to think of it so much as "interference" as opposed to a much more... temporary restraint. As Professor Quirrell would put it, "There is a true fact, known to me but not to you, of which I would like to convince you, Ms. Ibara." Once Ashe conveys these facts, if Junko still wants to leave, I'm sure Ashe isn't going to stop her.
Ah, thanks for that input, darrin! That might indeed be the case here. =)
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Re: [1550] Raging noises

Post by Yl33 D4 N00b » Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:44 am

Although Ping technically isn't, Junko IS a minor, so perhaps Ashe is doing her duty as an adult to set her straight?

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Re: [1550] Raging noises

Post by darrin » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:35 am

Teddy-Werebear wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:15 am
darrin wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:51 am
I continue to predict that the "creeper" crowd will end up longing for the day when he used to be merely a "creepy pedophile" and not the existential horror Fred will craft him into.
Oh, I totally feel you on the Buffalo Bill vibe Dr. Feelgood gives off D. That grim, detached look of disdain as he takes the picture is an indicator of his sociopath and psychopath leanings. All the really bad ones seem to start out as creepers before they go flying off the rails on the crazy train.
Mmmm not quite, sorry. To run with the horror analogy, you guys are thinking cheap teen slasher flick and missing the HP Lovecraft looming just beyond the horizon.

Sony already has a staff psychopath -- in the literal sense of psychopath, the murder of an innocent bystander (and -- quelle coincidence -- an underage girl) is at most "entertaining" to him.

The Old Man, by contrast, isn't a "psychopath", because he hasn't "done" anything (physical at any rate) to any "real" girls. He's not a sociopath because he is a functioning member of society, working hard at his job for a major mainstream company; again, no "real" girls are involved internal to Sony, and from his, Sony's, and socierty's point of view, he is doing nothing more morally questionable than designing better pencil sharpeners. And he hasn't done anything illegal, because the entire SEVS EDS project and all data collection procedures to be followed within that project were vetted ahead of time by Sony Legal.

Admittedly nearly all of the above has yet to shake out and is currently speculation. paarfi (just to take one example) has well-justified doubts regarding the last point (legality let alone morality of whatever it is he's actually done). My tingling senses (l33t or otherwise) still tell me that him being a creeper, psychopath, etc would ultimately be far less horrific than him being a fine upstanding hard-working model citizen -- who is the willing instrument of the ultimate enslavement and sexual servitude of (Guinan quote again) "generations of disposable people".
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Re: [1550] Raging noises

Post by Eraden » Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:44 am

Agreed, Darrin. This man is quite amoral and does not seem concerned about the consequences of his actions. What he is doing now is not necessarily evil but his actions are inexorably leading him down a path that almost certainly WILL involve acts of incredible evil. Compared to creating and enslaving sentient beings, garden variety creepy stuff is downright fluffy. I still do not like this scientist and I remain convinced, as do you, that once he reveals the full scope of his objectives, most of the people here who are calling him a creeper, will wish that was all that he is.

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Re: [1550] Raging noises

Post by darrin » Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:11 pm

Eraden wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:44 am
What he is doing now is not necessarily evil but his actions are inexorably leading him down a path that almost certainly WILL involve acts of incredible evil.
And even when that goes down, he will be all "Hey, go talk to the R&D VP, I don't decide what gets done, I just do it." The abyss of his soul will be bottomless but squeaky clean all the way down. :shock:
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Re: [1550] Raging noises

Post by BetaCygnus » Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:09 am

darrin wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:35 am
… than him being a fine upstanding hard-working model citizen -- who is the willing instrument of the ultimate enslavement and sexual servitude of (Guinan quote again) "generations of disposable people".
I’m with you, darrin — except for the sexual servitude.

Ping didn’t just *not have access to* the information she thought would be there when she thought she needed it — it just wasn’t there, not waiting to be unlocked as the situation arose (pun).

If the SEVS EDS was set up for sexual servitude, one would expect her to at least have the latent data or easily having had access to and running into whatever information she would not have wanted to have, while out there roaming the digital waves of the Web earlier. I find it incredible (in the sense of: very logical and therefore all the more credible) that she didn’t. Because of that, it seems to me the EDS is really intended and built as a non-H system, as indicated early on.

It almost seems to me as if she’s got some very potent content filters running subconsciously.
She had "free" (?) access to all kinds of social media (posting pics of Miho &c.), yet she was *totally unaware* up until very recently — when someone actually *told* her — as to the physical reality and content of sexuality!?!?
Her system *must* have actively blocked all that "info" that is floating around in the latex soup we call "the internet".
She got all kind of weird translations when Largo was perfecting her translation module. The sources he used were questionable to say the least, yet very clearly full of the info she was looking for when she went into the love hotel much later. Yet, she didn’t have a clue even after that confusing online experience.

Concluding, I would still vote for the SEVS EDS project to be aiming for a secret weapon kind of robot spy. Like in D.A.R.R.Y.L.

=)
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Re: [1550] Raging noises

Post by darrin » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:59 am

BetaCygnus wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:09 am
I’m with you, darrin — except for the sexual servitude.

Ping didn’t just *not have access to* the information she thought would be there when she thought she needed it — it just wasn’t there, not waiting to be unlocked as the situation arose (pun).

If the SEVS EDS was set up for sexual servitude, one would expect her to at least have the latent data or easily having had access to and running into whatever information she would not have wanted to have, while out there roaming the digital waves of the Web earlier. I find it incredible (in the sense of: very logical and therefore all the more credible) that she didn’t.
The error messages she received (in 1523) told her that she needed "downloadable" content. Granted Junko had already ripped that nasty Largo router out of her head, but as you say, she had already had plenty of opportunity to expose her self to (presumably) similar "instructional material" -- certainly Largo's wackiness in the name of translation had already shoved her poor nose into the sleaziest subbasements the interwebs had to offer. :shock: My working assumption has been that downloadable here meant downloadable from Sony, either directly herself or through whatever Playstation console she is (assumed to be) connected to -- she's just an "accessory" after all. Granted my Sony / Playstation knowledge is second hand, but between seeing my son beg for yet more money for yet another set of fortnite skins, or trivially download an M game even though he's 13 (in his case gory shoot-em-ups as opposed to the current subject of discussion), that is the model I've been using as my reference point.
Because of that, it seems to me the EDS is really intended and built as a non-H system, as indicated early on.
Rather than deal with a bunch of protesting parents before Ping ever hits the shelves, Sony would be careful to only advertise the non-H aspects, and describe only the "Princess Maker" type games (just like when you're trying to convince your parents to give you some extra money for manga/anime, you're not gonna go into a lot of detail of what "School Days" is actually about :shock:). People who want the M games though will know, or easily find out, where to find them, and will be willing to pay for the "extra" content that needs downloading. (Ping didn't get a link to the Playstation store for said content because she doesn't currently have a registered user with a credit card. ;))

Or maybe I am just too damn cynical / paranoid. 8-)
Concluding, I would still vote for the SEVS EDS project to be aiming for a secret weapon kind of robot spy. Like in D.A.R.R.Y.L.
Now that's an intriguing possibility. It would explain why Sony Enforcement felt justified in sending out someone with Ed's military-grade levels of skills and hardware to eliminate a rogue "date bot". The next question would be whether the Old Man is in on that or also a useful dupe. "Yes, doctor, it's absolutely imperative that she be able to pass as... uh, heh, you know, I mean behave like... a real teenage girl. Under all circumstances."
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Re: [1550] Raging noises

Post by DrunkenSailor » Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:34 pm

So why didn't Ping recognize the doctor when she met him?

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Re: [1550] Raging noises

Post by BetaCygnus » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:07 pm

darrin wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:59 am

The error messages she received (in 1523) told her that she needed "downloadable" content. (…) My working assumption has been that downloadable here meant downloadable from Sony, either directly herself or through whatever Playstation console she is (assumed to be) connected to -- she's just an "accessory" after all. Granted my Sony / Playstation knowledge is second hand, but between seeing my son beg for yet more money for yet another set of fortnite skins, or trivially download an M game even though he's 13 (…), that is the model I've been using as my reference point.
Ah. Well, seeing as I know nothing at all about Playstations since I am not a gamer at all — in my head, a computer and an iPad are useful tools for the expression of creativity and productivity, and I’m not much of an AI enthusiast for several reasons — you have 100% more reference material than I. =)
darrin wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:59 am
Or maybe I am just too damn cynical / paranoid. 8-)
Maybe. Maybe not. I do get what you are saying.

My trouble with these current posts is, that I just can’t see the Doctor as a bad guy, while most people out here seem to be intent on making him one. He may be working on something that is potentially — well, dubious. But I simply wonder if Madame Curie and her husband can be labeled as such because of their discovery of certain forms of radiation that can be used for treating illnesses as well as utilized for mass destruction.

Is ‘socially interacting with teenage girls from the perspective of a scientist who is intent on delivering the most convincing AI teenage girl social behaviour ever programmed’ to be judged "creepy"? Not necessarily so, in *my* opinion.
Especially not if we keep your option about the possible requirements for the SEVS EDS in mind. =)

And when he got up and called Junko — that struck me as being quite spontaneous, it may even have shown some honest concern for her. That’s also why I view Ashe’s interference as such, though I do agree it to be understandable from *her* point of view. It just *is* a complex situation… =)
darrin wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:59 am
Concluding, I would still vote for the SEVS EDS project to be aiming for a secret weapon kind of robot spy. Like in D.A.R.R.Y.L.
Now that's an intriguing possibility.
Thanks! =)
darrin wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:59 am
It would explain why Sony Enforcement felt justified in sending out someone with Ed's military-grade levels of skills and hardware to eliminate a rogue "date bot".
Come to think of it… yeah, it would… 8(
darrin wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:59 am
The next question would be whether the Old Man is in on that or also a useful dupe. "Yes, doctor, it's absolutely imperative that she be able to pass as... uh, heh, you know, I mean behave like... a real teenage girl. Under all circumstances."
I think he may know about Ed’s mission, but disagree with his methods and out to find Ping and try to bring his ‘creation’, for which he will have much more ‘compassion’ (lacking a better wording there) than Ed, who is just a psychotic hired hitman.
Kind of like that other old movie: Short Circuit I — "Who’s Johnny"… Remember that one? Schroeder (P.A.: Harris!) going after the potentially dangerous rogue robot with all possible force, while …yeah, Steve Guttenberg (P.A.: Mahoney!) and his colleague go after their creation — emotionally attached — (that’s it…) and (with a little help) find out that "NOVA Robotics Number 5" is now somehow alive — after which discovery they are into the game for Johnny’s protection.

I can’t help roping for that kind of background and intent for the Doctor. And unless Fred reveals that the Doctor is indeed a bad guy as in creepy and psychopath and all things terrible, I’m keeping to the positive vibe I keep getting from this character.

=)

Haha, the SEVS EDS project may even be Sony’s attempt at creating a more controllable version (well *that* didn’t work out quite well, so far) of a Magical Girl. That group of the population seems to be pretty involved in secret missions as well…

The failure to contain Ping may have even been reason to give the Doctor the sack — he may be on a private mission to ‘rescue’ Ping now…

I know. Just broadcasting brainwaves at this point. =)
DrunkenSailor wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:34 pm
So why didn't Ping recognize the doctor when she met him?
Simple. She may have never met him before.

=)
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Re: [1550] Raging noises

Post by Invisigoth » Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:32 pm

I believe that Sony had greater ambitions than just creating a controllable MG. Mr Ibari said that she was intended to be a replacement for CA's like Miho. Now when he said that the readers had no idea how powerful Miho and by extension other CA's might be but Sony would know

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Re: [1550] Raging noises

Post by cidjen » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:36 am

BetaCygnus wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:09 am

Concluding, I would still vote for the SEVS EDS project to be aiming for a secret weapon kind of robot spy. Like in D.A.R.R.Y.L.

=)
D.A.R.Y.L ;) ftfy.

At least, it'll have some emotions unlike the TOY SOLDIERS ::)

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Re: [1550] Raging noises

Post by paarfi » Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:48 am

Invisigoth wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:32 pm
I believe that Sony had greater ambitions than just creating a controllable MG. Mr Ibari said that she was intended to be a replacement for CA's like Miho. Now when he said that the readers had no idea how powerful Miho and by extension other CA's might be but Sony would know
Vis has a good point here. Those dolls are an attempt to eliminate the need for analogues like Tohya Miho. [1239]. This is also the primary source for the "Ping takes over for Miho as Character Analogue" guess at an ending.
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Re: [1550] Raging noises

Post by BetaCygnus » Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:57 am

Ah, yes. That *would* be a greater perspective. But still, multiple perspectives are in play. Ping is, after all, marketed as a ‘mere’ Playstation accessory. She can play many parts… as a whole.

=)
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Re: [1550] Raging noises

Post by cidjen » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:40 am

Invisigoth wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:32 pm
I believe that Sony had greater ambitions than just creating a controllable MG. Mr Ibari said that she was intended to be a replacement for CA's like Miho. Now when he said that the readers had no idea how powerful Miho and by extension other CA's might be but Sony would know
He also said, that it was 'a doomed attempt'.

Wondering, why would he say that...?

An artificial girl like Ping, would make (in theory) life of those who are CA's much more bearable...
(Erika, by the sound of it, almost became one, there was no such saving grace for Miho though.)

Is it doomed because Ping has no story of her own? But that should be a positive aspect, getting some other characters' story onto Ping's framework, won't hurt any humans, and Ping's memory can be rewritten so she won't remember the past (unlike humans) so any harm she'd suffer will be short-lived (again unlike humans).

Is it doomed because the fans of such stories actually long for something real, rather than a made-up character who happens to tick all of their boxes by design? But they are 'mindless protagonists', they would devour 'any story' hoping that something real hides there... they can handle 'being disappointed with the story' (Piro).

Is it because Ibara-senior/Junko's dad, actually fears for his own job, because his position would not be required any more, and he only just got it, together with the fancy sonic wiimote that can summon tetris blocks... Wonder if his belief is the same as his higher-ups at Nintendo? But then that would mean, that Sony actually seems to think about people, the evil corpo they are (portrayed as), as opposed to Nintendo... makes one think, how bad Nintendo _really_ is if they don't want to?

Maybe it actually is some of that and the added sibling rivalry, either Dr Engineer and him are siblings, cousins or 'used to be best friends before taking the two opposite jobs', sort of like through-the-barricade partnership of Dom and Ed? Something like, the story of Dr Eng and Ibara-san, be similar to the story of Dom and Ed.

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Re: [1550] Raging noises

Post by NinjaDefenestrator » Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:01 pm

Eight comics in three months, each of them pushing the plot forward by about two minutes for Ping, Junko, and the kitsune. I’ve forgotten what the story is supposed to be about anymore.

Not to be pushy, but please throw me a bone: will the scene be changing anytime soon? Or will we be dealing with more of the Sawatari show (now featuring Junko!) until June? I want to know how long I should wait before checking back in.

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Re: [1550] Raging noises

Post by HakuRyoku » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:27 pm

Thankfully ninja, you can watch Fred draw the next comic live on Twitch here: https://www.twitch.tv/fredrin Which he is currently doing as I post this.
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Re: [1550] Raging noises

Post by Invisigoth » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:43 pm

NinjaDefenestrator wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:01 pm
Eight comics in three months, each of them pushing the plot forward by about two minutes for Ping, Junko, and the kitsune. I’ve forgotten what the story is supposed to be about anymore.

Not to be pushy, but please throw me a bone: will the scene be changing anytime soon? Or will we be dealing with more of the Sawatari show (now featuring Junko!) until June? I want to know how long I should wait before checking back in.
The scene will change when it changes

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Re: [1550] Raging noises

Post by darrin » Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:00 am

NinjaDefenestrator wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:01 pm
Or will we be dealing with more of the Sawatari show (now featuring Junko!) until June?
Since there are no members of the Sawatari clan who are not awesome...

Image[alt]Kolrami[/alt]

... your objection is nullified.
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Re: [1550] Raging noises

Post by BetaCygnus » Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:22 am

I check in a few times every week. There might always be a new update to *any* plotline! =)

I just like the "Would there be a new comic?"-feeling.
Actually, it’s rewarded quite often with a "Yay! New comic!"-thrill.

=)

Okay, back to the subject.
I just wondered. Masamichi’s Magical Girl Detector — it’s a My Worst Sony, right? — or is it Fisher Price? Hmmm…

8|

Well anyway…

Poor Masamichi. Ping will always be able to operate under the radar of the TPCD…

=D
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Re: [1550] Raging noises

Post by Invisigoth » Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:27 am

Masamichi uses https://www.fluke.com/

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Re: [1550] Raging noises

Post by BetaCygnus » Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:19 pm

Aha. Thanks. I thought that was an expression of failure on the Magical Girl Detector — it being so near the upper border of the measurement scale. Hadn’t recognized it as a brand, obviously…

=D
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