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[1540] alone?

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darrin
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Re: [1540] alone?

Post by darrin » Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:44 pm

Invisigoth wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:10 pm
Teddy-Werebear wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:13 pm
The Burning Bed!
Fred has explicitly stated that he will not draw what is happening between Piro and Kimiko, so leave that to your imagination and go on.
Wait, P+K? I had thought Teddy-Werebear intended Miho to be the occupant of said bed...

(That's yet another problem with doing a wall-o'-text, you miss all the dang memos. :()
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Re: [1540] alone?

Post by cidjen » Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:05 am

Well dayum people you've had your fanservice ;) back in chapter ... 8 ? (I am close to be translating that right now) and then the bath house... and hints of buttons popping on hospital gowns... this really does not need be more ecchi than it already was ;)

Joking aside,

remember Piro has, if not glass in his back, then at least some nasty cuts and it may just get more burned up after the shower, so being on his back on the bed may be slightly difficult if the wounds open too early (also bed sheets get ruined like no first night can... OMG sorry for the picture here). Also he landed on his, erm, ar53, pardon my scottish, when he dropped down a level carrying Kimiko. Kimiko being on her back may also be diff because embracing may be painful (also she may have a few scratches from landing on the rubble) so in the end this would end like a scene from that old movie ('wounds rubbing on wounds is painful'). Most I see them doing is her applying some wound ointment to his back. Maybe n3kk3d fun, touching, petting, and talking, but nothing much else. Confessions, pink pentagons, twinkling stars, sakura petals, firm resolves and ... yeah. You get the idea. We did not have a scene like that yet didn't we ;)

Or he'll spill to Kimiko just how far his in-game relationship with Miho went. What Kimiko's gonna do after that? Angelic guidance will be reqired... or Kimiko will march out and Ping will find use for her rejection cushioning program, for real this time...? Or will Kimiko be smiling and understanding this is all in the past (and it was in a game after all), and all too happy to tell Piro he's got his dream job?
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Re: [1540] alone?

Post by darrin » Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:53 pm

Ok, seriously (since my attempt at staying humorous above meant my point was universally missed): where the heck are any of you getting any kind of relation to Piro or Kimiko from a "Burning Bed" reference? You [see edit] do realize that's not a euphemism, right? Certainly not for anything fun?

More importantly, how would any such relation be relevant to the current strip? Miho has vastly more important concerns right now than what old flame is engaging with whoever in what hole (Fox- or otherwise).

EDIT
That second "you" above was intended to be plural like the first one, definitely not directed at any individual.
Last edited by darrin on Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [1540] alone?

Post by cidjen » Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:06 pm

Welll.....

That escalated quickly hey.

Slightly my fault too sry.
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Re: [1540] alone?

Post by darrin » Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:23 pm

cidjen wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:06 pm
Slightly my fault too sry.
Not really (nor anyone else's); I sometimes tend to lose a bit of rudder control when confused (especially when it's something I think I shouldn't be confused about -- you'd think a guy always burbling about questioning assumptions would have a better handle on that). Please interpret my tone as indicating that confusion rather than any actual intent to escalate. In any case, cookies and/or apologies to any who wish.

So anyway -- not to repeat my "Miho as foie gras" thing (which was already too long), but trying to back up to a bigger picture -- I have a serious question for the Miho-disdainers (including but not limited to Teddy-Werebear). The past few chapters it seems as if the things we've been learning about Miho point in a consistent direction of her being the victim of whatever happened to turn her into whatever she is. Okay, yes, she could be lying, she could have made some pact with a malevolent Irish spirit to obtain eldritch powers, or the whole thing could be a whole cloth Kaiser Soze fabrication.

But supposing the picture we've gotten so far isn't her lying, and supposing that she is the victim of rather than willing participant in whatever the deal is with her... would that be enough to modify or in any way call into question the model of her being as evil as many claim her to be? It might not; a zombie for example didn't choose to be a zombie but ya still gotta kill it (it's well past choosing not to be a zombie now, or choosing anything at all except trying to eat your brains). A more complex example, if you're a Doctor Who fan anyway: remember the bit about the Master in the last of the 10th Doctor (Tennant) episodes? How he wasn't born a murderous psychopath after all? How the Time Lords deliberately turned his brain to porridge just to send out a signal, for the sole purpose of saving their own sorry asses? (Which didn't even work, making the whole thing -- all the evil and suffering he ever perpetrated as a result -- utterly pointless?)

Okay, but is Miho that evil? I mean operationally, what evil acts have we actually seen her commit? I asked that in the old forums a long time ago and a bunch of the answers basically said that she was summoned from the Necrowombicon, Largo "knew" she was evil, that was plenty good enough. But... Miho isn't the only one who's talked about the influence of "fans" on her "story"... If Largo wanted (badly enough) a source of evil to confront, and if being an "analogue" was enough to force Miho onto those plot rails for the first few chapters, then we're back to the first question, would her inability to '"choose" reduce in any way her culpability (for whatever you most feel she deserves being "punished")?

Summing-up questions. For the anti-Miho bandwagoneers: what more would need to be revealed about Miho's past that would start to shift the preferred hypothesis away from "she's just plain evil" to "hmm, she may be more of a victim of circumstance than previously thought"?

For the Miho thralls (myself included): the way she dumped Piro is described as quite nasty, and she's behaved in ways toward him the past couple of chapters that could fairly be called manipulative. More ominously, she's said she [led] others to their deaths... who [she] wanted to die. What more would need to come to light for us to stop thinking of her as the wholly innocent girl controlled by unknown forces, and see her as more... Master-like? Someone who, no matter how sympathetic we might be to her initial plight, needs to be controlled and contained the way Stability apparently tries to?
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Re: [1540] alone?

Post by Zandra » Thu Oct 25, 2018 9:04 am

Invisigoth wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:10 pm
Teddy-Werebear wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:13 pm
Time for the the remake of an awesome movie?

The Burning Bed!
Fred has explicitly stated that he will not draw what is happening between Piro and Kimiko, so leave that to your imagination and go on.

Has anyone missed the similarities between Miho and the girl? it reminds me of the end of full metal alchemist brotherhood a bit here. That is her reflection of truth in front of her i think. WHo better than yourself to judge and punish you?
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Re: [1540] alone?

Post by Zandra » Thu Oct 25, 2018 9:11 am

darrin wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:23 pm
cidjen wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:06 pm
Slightly my fault too sry.
For the Miho thralls (myself included): the way she dumped Piro is described as quite nasty, and she's behaved in ways toward him the past couple of chapters that could fairly be called manipulative. More ominously, she's said she [led] others to their deaths... who [she] wanted to die. What more would need to come to light for us to stop thinking of her as the wholly innocent girl controlled by unknown forces, and see her as more... Master-like? Someone who, no matter how sympathetic we might be to her initial plight, needs to be controlled and contained the way Stability apparently tries to?
The innocent are always the most corruptible when you "break the cutie".

The death of her friends and bf broke her,so no she should not be held responsible for her actions i think because those actions were a result of her dealing with a force she cant resist inside her.Im willing to bet Piro might be a reincarnation of her original BF that has come to free her from her curse perhaps.
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Re: [1540] alone?

Post by darrin » Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:17 am

Zandra wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 9:04 am
Has anyone missed the similarities between Miho and the girl?
I did include "mini-Miho" in my list of possibilities at the beginning of the thread :D But to be honest not so much on physical similarities, I don't trust my eye on that too far. I think jkhartl made an important point about the lock of brighter hair, but unfortunately I have no idea what to do with that clue yet.
WHo better than yourself to judge and punish you?
Another line that could come straight from a Doctor Who episode :lol: [1] And that is the main reason I'm leaning toward this being mini-Miho (with Ririka being my 2nd choice, followed closely by "someone important to Miho we haven't met yet").
Zandra wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 9:11 am
The death of her friends and bf broke her,so no she should not be held responsible for her actions i think because those actions were a result of her dealing with a force she cant resist inside her.
That's a reasonable position to hold I would say. For my money it sounds a bit like writing a blank check; I'm not sure I could personally go quite that far [edit I mean so far as to say she would not be at all responsible] (again, with the Master analogy, it becomes a question of whether you put them in prison or an insane asylum :(). But that in turn would be contingent on her ever having done anything that evil, which in-comic I'm not sure we've seen. :lol:

[1] It kinda did, if you count the "There's only one person in the universe who hates me this much" line from "Heist". (EDIT: "Amy's Choice" might be considered another relevant example.) Ooh, and there was the Red Dwarf episode where they were "judged" by replicas of themselves, having to justify their actions by their own (admittedly wonky) standards.
Last edited by darrin on Thu Oct 25, 2018 6:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: [1540] alone?

Post by cidjen » Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:38 am

In my defense, i can only blame Invisigoth el Magnifico!! ;) for throwing me on that track (and myself not being literate in English literature enough to get the Burning Bed reference WAAAAIT WHAAAAT?! Oh now I get what TWB was alluding... BAD BEAR, BAD!)
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Re: [1540] alone?

Post by darrin » Thu Oct 25, 2018 6:30 pm

cidjen wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:38 am
i can only blame Invisigoth el Magnifico!! [...]
Vell, Infissigoff's just ziss guy, you know...
BAD BEAR, BAD!
To paraphrase the old politician joke, how can you tell if Teddy-Werebear is saying something horrific about Miho?
SpoilerShow
His lips are moving! :lol:
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Re: [1540] alone?

Post by cidjen » Thu Oct 25, 2018 7:13 pm

Praise ye mod's,
For your show me
The light in the dark
Their names written
On the stone tablets
Spelling in gold
INVISIGOTH!
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Re: [1540] alone?

Post by paarfi » Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:18 pm

in right hand, wand
in left hand, bear
this little girl
from who-knows-where
has words quite harsh
and mien quite stern
but for whom, as yet
we have still to learn.
who can she be
who appears so young
yet speaks with such venom
upon her tongue?
a figure from
the distant past
or vital player
who at last
appears on the stage
of our favorite tale
with important secrets
to soon unveil.
or perhaps not for,
as so oft we see,
answers lead but
to more mystery.
such are, we know,
the ways of Fred.
yet I am convinced
that we are led
through paths that wind
past ends that be
both bad and
filled with misery
to a place where
the sun shall shine again
and Miho's life
will, at last, begin
to be more than
a prelude to her doom.
so this young girl
who entered the room
has in her left
more than a bear;
she carries hope
to end despair.
and in her right
not just a wand
but a symbol
of the bond
of love that shall
set Miho free
someday from her
cyclic destiny.
so on to the next
webcomic please
though even should
it only tease,
the next plot twist
my hopes pretend
is the next sure step
to Miho's good end.
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Re: [1540] alone?

Post by Zandra » Fri Oct 26, 2018 2:25 pm

paarfi wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:18 pm
in right hand, wand
in left hand, bear
this little girl
from who-knows-where
has words quite harsh
and mien quite stern
but for whom, as yet
we have still to learn.
who can she be
who appears so young
yet speaks with such venom
upon her tongue?
a figure from
the distant past
or vital player
who at last
appears on the stage
of our favorite tale
with important secrets
to soon unveil.
or perhaps not for,
as so oft we see,
answers lead but
to more mystery.
such are, we know,
the ways of Fred.
yet I am convinced
that we are led
through paths that wind
past ends that be
both bad and
filled with misery
to a place where
the sun shall shine again
and Miho's life
will, at last, begin
to be more than
a prelude to her doom.
so this young girl
who entered the room
has in her left
more than a bear;
she carries hope
to end despair.
and in her right
not just a wand
but a symbol
of the bond
of love that shall
set Miho free
someday from her
cyclic destiny.
so on to the next
webcomic please
though even should
it only tease,
the next plot twist
my hopes pretend
is the next sure step
to Miho's good end.
Oh you evil evil genius you.
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Re: [1540] alone?

Post by darrin » Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:14 pm

Yeah, looks like the award for Most Beautiful Post Ever is all wrapped up.

You're gonna need a bigger mantelpiece, paarfi.
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Re: [1540] alone?

Post by cidjen » Sat Oct 27, 2018 2:24 am

But the question remains...

Who is that girl?

How far is the Chekhov sniper shooting from?

Fred still claims we have seen this before.

I feel like a similar scene (in spirit, and intensity) happened when Largo called Piro out to leave the evil alone and let it be consumed by the Void and called his fantasy demented. Maybe also when Kimiko confessed her (and Miho's) feelings.

Now somebody tell me, please, what does it even mean :)
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Re: [1540] alone?

Post by Liminaut » Sat Oct 27, 2018 2:47 am

I have a really stoooopid idea ....
but I think the little girl is Moeko. The MG that Erica used to play.

We know that Moeko is still alive but in a coma (https://megatokyo.com/strip/1500) The little girl has a wand, indicating a magical girl. She also says "I should punish you", which is pretty close to a Erica/Moeko line like "I will punish you most severely!" My wild-assed hypothesis is that Moeko is able to psychically work with people, because magical.

I can't find a picture of Moeko that shows a white lock, so that's a little dubious.

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Re: [1540] alone?

Post by dparky » Sat Oct 27, 2018 2:54 am

Why did I get a very powerful "Neon Genesis Evangelion" feel off of this posting? I'm referencing the scenes where one character or another, usually Shinji Ikari, talked to themselves in their heads. For Shinji it was it was either himself or Rei Ayanami talking to him on that train.

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Re: [1540] alone?

Post by maldrul » Sat Oct 27, 2018 5:21 am

Image

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Re: [1540] alone?

Post by cidjen » Sat Oct 27, 2018 5:23 am

Moeko makes sense but the hair doesn't match...

I did think about this just could not match the hair to any known cast or support member (thinking about it more, this might be why Moeko actually makes sense here).

So this place is where MGs go when they nearly die?
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Re: [1540] alone?

Post by maldrul » Sat Oct 27, 2018 5:34 am

cidjen wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 5:23 am
Moeko makes sense but the hair doesn't match...

I did think about this just could not match the hair to any known cast or support member (thinking about it more, this might be why Moeko actually makes sense here).

So this place is where MGs go when they nearly die?
It is not Moeko
Image

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Re: [1540] alone?

Post by cidjen » Sat Oct 27, 2018 5:38 am

maldrul wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 5:34 am
cidjen wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 5:23 am
Moeko makes sense but the hair doesn't match...

I did think about this just could not match the hair to any known cast or support member (thinking about it more, this might be why Moeko actually makes sense here).

So this place is where MGs go when they nearly die?
It is not Moeko
Then about the only other possibility is Miho's conscience, trapped in her mind, that's why we can't see her normally (maybe another sister of Seraphim?)
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Re: [1540] alone?

Post by Yl33 D4 N00b » Sat Oct 27, 2018 11:45 am

Around here, the Answer is generally almost always (E.)"None of the Above"...... ;)

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Re: [1540] alone?

Post by Liminaut » Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:11 pm

maldrul wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 5:21 am
We *have* seen this before
I'm not seeing anything in that VN but --- do we have a picture of Miho & Piro's kid in Endgames?

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Re: [1540] alone?

Post by paarfi » Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:32 pm

Liminaut wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:11 pm
do we have a picture of Miho & Piro's kid in Endgames?
The little boy with the long hair in the middle of panel 4 [1345].
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Re: [1540] alone?

Post by maldrul » Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:40 pm

Liminaut wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:11 pm
maldrul wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 5:21 am
We *have* seen this before
I'm not seeing anything in that VN but --- do we have a picture of Miho & Piro's kid in Endgames?
That fact that Miho knows she is dying is nothing?
Image

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