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[1523] DLC may be required

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Re: [1523] DLC may be required

Post by Invisigoth » Thu May 10, 2018 9:49 am

Projectmars wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 9:32 am
paarfi wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 7:59 am
cidjen wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 6:17 am
is it ok to spill here what Fred has been saying on Twitch ...?
Fred called the hipster 'a f**kface' and was giving signals that he's the villain here.
It's ok. But, as many of y'all know, Fred is a notorious troll in the chat of his drawing livestreams. He takes delight in making up misleading stuff, and he can be quite convincing about it. We call those "Fred herrings". It's up to y'all whether you choose to believe any particular thing he says about the characters and story there, but I'd caution against blindly accepting it as canon.
As someone who has been watching Fred for years (since the uStream days), can confirm.

That said, he does date high school girls and seems perfectly fine with where Ping may be leading this. He’s definitely some kind of shady dude.
Oh, I think he's much worse than simply some guy who enjoys the companionship of underage girls

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Re: [1523] DLC may be required

Post by darrin » Thu May 10, 2018 11:27 am

Projectmars wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 9:32 am
[...] he does date high school girls [...]
(emphasis added)

Assumes facts not (yet) in evidence.
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Re: [1523] DLC may be required

Post by Teddy-Werebear » Thu May 10, 2018 12:43 pm

darrin wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 11:27 am
(emphasis added)
Assumes facts not (yet) in evidence.
I can hardly believe you are defending Stranger Danger here!
Guy is a creepo sleazo to the max!!

I say that realizing my idle debating about the input and output of Junko and Pinko over the last few comic threads, but that was all in jest.
Dude is a medium tier slimeball at best with nothing but degrading downside from that starting bar.

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Re: [1523] DLC may be required

Post by darrin » Thu May 10, 2018 1:21 pm

Teddy-Werebear wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 12:43 pm
I can hardly believe you are defending Stranger Danger here!
I'm saying it hasn't been established yet that this is in fact a date. All I've been defending so far is multiple hypothesis testing.
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Re: [1523] DLC may be required

Post by iffy » Thu May 10, 2018 2:23 pm

Ping doesn't have the content she needs to get to path b or beyond, seems she's not been fully programmed for this type of game.

Pie usage, 1172:4 in particular.

Which also if the question is in light of the rest of 1172 how does now fit that, this apparently isn't coming between a real girl and a boy she likes, some naturally occurring user finding more, this is protecting her friend from uncomfortable bad evil etc. If that's actually the case remains to be seen (or not seen)

As far as conclusions about what's been said during drawing, or about what might happen next in comic based upon this that and the other. Likely a good rule of thumb is, if some fact hasn't been established as one way or the other in a story comic, it's not true, didn't happen, doesn't yet exist. All that exists is perception, opinion, subjectivity. That's the fun! Big trees and trolling just adds delicious seasoning sometimes.
Last edited by iffy on Thu May 10, 2018 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: [1523] DLC may be required

Post by cidjen » Thu May 10, 2018 2:23 pm

paarfi wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 7:59 am
cidjen wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 6:17 am
is it ok to spill here what Fred has been saying on Twitch ...?
Fred called the hipster 'a f**kface' and was giving signals that he's the villain here.
It's ok. But, as many of y'all know, Fred is a notorious troll in the chat of his drawing livestreams. He takes delight in making up misleading stuff, and he can be quite convincing about it. We call those "Fred herrings". It's up to y'all whether you choose to believe any particular thing he says about the characters and story there, but I'd caution against blindly accepting it as canon.
I am aware :) I wrote that one line later ... :)
Projectmars wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 9:32 am
That said, he does date high school girls and seems perfectly fine with where Ping may be leading this. He’s definitely some kind of shady dude.
Also by Junko's own words, he's not like her other 'stupid lovers'...

It seems Ping wanted to apply some unknown-to-her-yet (but prepared in her logic paths nevertheless) knowledge... so they programmed her to be aware of herself being a girl (a shoutout from [586]) but the DLC level cutoffs have been pushed pretty high... so she can be a girl if she wants to, but she has to download only the ... ekhm... ! Questionable Content ! HAHAHAHAAA!!!!

(that one seems to be exploring the human-robot relationship recently too... XD )

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Re: [1523] DLC may be required

Post by DrunkenSailor » Thu May 10, 2018 3:37 pm

Ping's thoughts don't seem to be limited to the stuff that can be done in logic trees and game software. She just knows little about this stuff outside her downloadable dating sim stuff. She's been taught/told/ordered/programmed to follow her game code. Ping's actual thoughts are the ordinary thought bubbles. They show insight and intelligence. The games stuff is sort of her following her dating sim supplied expertise and finding it useless. Ping is ignorant (of human interactions in someways) not stupid.

It's like Ping is a very realistic girl simulation, realistic to the point of not really being just a simulation anymore, trying hard to act like a cheap plastic toy. I remember an old episode of Bewitched (the show with Samantha the witch and Darrin the jerk) where her warlock uncle, Uncle Arthur, was entertaining Tabatha's neighborhood friends with a magic act. He kept doing stage magic which bored the kids, then snapping his fingers to make that equipment disappear and new stuff to do another stupid stage magic trick appear in a puff of smoke, causing squeals of delight from the children. He failed to understand why.

I can almost see the techs at SONY entirely judging the success or failure of the EDS project, based on Ping's ability to follow the clumsy game code, and totally ignore that PIng was just reading the code and trying to interpret it as best she could with intelligence and emotions that were totally real. They've created an awesome AI and ordered it to perform stupid AI pet tricks. Awesome and real enough that the students who weren't playing play station games with her completely failed to notice she was a robot after being in class with her for weeks. I think now if she hadn't been in adhoc mode, but was equipped with SONY content about what to do to be a normal student, that the other students would have caught on fast.

Of course the techs would have good reason to do this. They couldn't predict her actions with out making her follow their simple game logic. Couldn't control her. Couldn't keep the games pure. Couldn't keep her from running away.

But we do see her using her intelligence to evaluate the decisions forced on her by the game code. She seems to be able to over ride it and shape it a bit.

Just more parallels with her friend Miho.

But parallels are metaphors, and all metaphors go only so far. Yes, Kimi is playing Miho, and Ping is playing Junko. Both started this to protect the girl they are playing. Both are on a date with the gentleman friend of the girl they are playing. Kimi and Ping have both been more forward because they assume the girl they are playing as would be. And with Miho's, "I want to talk to him," line in her last appearance, both girls being played appear to be going to crash the date. But I can't see Junko rushing out through her living room to hunt down Ping but then stopping short with a shocked and confused expression like Miho's in panel 2 of her last appearance in MT. Her mother asks her what's wrong. "I.. I could that swear that just now,.. I was,.. eating pie.."

DS

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Re: [1523] DLC may be required

Post by iffy » Thu May 10, 2018 4:41 pm

Maybe a main point of her being released only partially finished is for Megatokyo to be some sort of a training ground to make Ping (more) human. An experiment by whoever's behind it, Sony or otherwise... Well they did send Ed to retire her, so if this guy is working for someone, maybe it's not them or they've changed their plans.

But perhaps the initial plans for real-world development, and who Ping was in the care of, was waylaid (in another direction, slowed or hastened) by those she ended up with, overall with Ed/Erika/Junko/Kimiko/Largo/Piro/Yuki, and with Largo/Piro, and Miho in particular.

That's not all of it though, there's also the dreams and ad hoc this and that, how truthful or correct Miho was in the ponderings of 1352 about Ping's changes/impact, and whatever just has happened to Ping mentally and physically since Miho vanished to her fully.

Compound that with the potential Ping was somehow called here and now by various mechanisms or certain actions (by this guy or otherwise). Or the alternative, that she has taken this upon herself, based on certain leaps of assumption and conclusions.

What does Ping do when she's trying things that aren't programmed, we don't know how many times this has happened before to what results exactly, but we might just get to see it this time. If we were her creators/programmers/caretakers/controllers, we'd probably be very interested directly in finding out for ourselves. Us too, even if we don't as of yet have the context.

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Re: [1523] DLC may be required

Post by GouryG » Thu May 10, 2018 8:39 pm

darrin wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 2:39 pm
NinjaDefenestrator wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 1:46 pm
She’s obviously uncomfortable.
I think it's still an open question to what extent her discomfort is due to him (if he does turn out to be just a creep client) or whether it's "self-inflcited" (if he's not a creep client, and thus not fitting into any of her expected scenario paths).

Her deer-in-the-headlights look in panel 9 more than anything else reminds me of Kirk and Spock spouting crazy rapdifire illogical crap to get Nomad to shut itself down. His "What other stuff would that be?" could just be an EK douche trying to avoid walking into a soliciting-a-minor rap... OR it's still possible he is an above-board guy (that Junko was meeting for above-board purposes) who knows something about Ping, and is gently trying to avoid "shutting down Nomad" while she works through her little logic crisis.

Logic is wreath of pretty flowers which smell bad.
Actually the clip comes from the episode I Mudd where after the androids that populate the planet they are on attempt to take The Enterprise for their own use and strand the crew and Harry Mudd on the planet. Then they come up with a plan to have Norman who is the link to the central AI have a meltdown.
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Re: [1523] DLC may be required

Post by Roamer » Fri May 11, 2018 3:43 am

iffy wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 4:41 pm
Maybe a main point of her being released only partially finished is for Megatokyo to be some sort of a training ground to make Ping (more) human. An experiment by whoever's behind it, Sony or otherwise... Well they did send Ed to retire her, so if this guy is working for someone, maybe it's not them or they've changed their plans.

But perhaps the initial plans for real-world development, and who Ping was in the care of, was waylaid (in another direction, slowed or hastened) by those she ended up with, overall with Ed/Erika/Junko/Kimiko/Largo/Piro/Yuki, and with Largo/Piro, and Miho in particular.

That's not all of it though, there's also the dreams and ad hoc this and that, how truthful or correct Miho was in the ponderings of 1352 about Ping's changes/impact, and whatever just has happened to Ping mentally and physically since Miho vanished to her fully.

Compound that with the potential Ping was somehow called here and now by various mechanisms or certain actions (by this guy or otherwise). Or the alternative, that she has taken this upon herself, based on certain leaps of assumption and conclusions.

What does Ping do when she's trying things that aren't programmed, we don't know how many times this has happened before to what results exactly, but we might just get to see it this time. If we were her creators/programmers/caretakers/controllers, we'd probably be very interested directly in finding out for ourselves. Us too, even if we don't as of yet have the context.
I find a lot of this fascinating. Maybe Megatokyo, at least in it's current form, was created by Sony to provide a safe space for training the EDS prototypes, and provide the information (save games) needed to produce the DLC for the Level B and maaaybe Level C subroutines?

I can't imagine that Ping is the only EDS prototype. You never build just one - accidents happen. Considering what she must have cost, Sony had to have been planning a massive push of the EDS dolls, so.....oh crap. Miho. If you're building a doll for games, then you need games to produce. And if one of the most popular avatars for games disappears, wouldn't that have an impact on the market? And there's a kill order for Ping. Are they worried about Ping channeling renegade Miho? Or that Miho could influence or control Ping somehow? Dunno, random thoughts that just came to me, but interesting...

The big difference in Ping's actions here is that she's acting alone, which I don't think we've ever willingly seen her do before, and acting on behalf of someone else - 'taking the hit' for them, so to speak. In her own way, Ping seems to be maturing. Pushing her boundaries, forgoing pie for the sake of the mission, doing things she's intensely uncomfortable with - Our little EDS proto is growing up. I'm sure Largo will be very proud. :lol:

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Re: [1523] DLC may be required

Post by darrin » Fri May 11, 2018 11:00 am

GouryG wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 8:39 pm
Actually the clip comes from the episode I Mudd...
Yeah, I knew that wasn't the Nomad episode, but it's a much funnier bit, which is why I linked it.

EDIT:
Roamer wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 3:43 am
And if one of the most popular avatars for games disappears, wouldn't that have an impact on the market? And there's a kill order for Ping. Are they worried about Ping channeling renegade Miho? Or that Miho could influence or control Ping somehow?
Huh, you just made me realize that a lot of this really hit the fan after Junko got Ping to post all those pictures of Miho, which certainly could have attracted a lot more unwanted attention that just the fanboy horde's.

On the other hand... in looking at the alternative hypothesis that this isn't a date, but something above-board probably to do with Ping, the only hook I'd come up with so far was Junko being curious about Ping, posting questions somewhere, and this guy responding. Another way it could have gone down is if this guy recognized the metadata in the headers of the images they posted ("hey! Ping took those pictures!") and contacted Junko himself. How he convinced Junko that he's worth trusting (and whether he actually is) would remain to be seen.
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Re: [1523] DLC may be required

Post by Teddy-Werebear » Fri May 11, 2018 11:17 am

DrunkenSailor wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 3:37 pm
I can almost see the techs at SONY entirely judging the success or failure of the EDS project, based on Ping's ability to follow the clumsy game code, and totally ignore that PIng was just reading the code and trying to interpret it as best she could with intelligence and emotions that were totally real. They've created an awesome AI and ordered it to perform stupid AI pet tricks. Awesome and real enough that the students who weren't playing play station games with her completely failed to notice she was a robot after being in class with her for weeks. I think now if she hadn't been in adhoc mode, but was equipped with SONY content about what to do to be a normal student, that the other students would have caught on fast.
DS
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Re: [1523] DLC may be required

Post by GouryG » Fri May 11, 2018 11:52 am

darrin wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 11:00 am
GouryG wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 8:39 pm
Actually the clip comes from the episode I Mudd...
Yeah, I knew that wasn't the Nomad episode, but it's a much funnier bit, which is why I linked it.
Yeah I Mudd is better, the best part was when they unleashed their Coup De Grace on Norman when they told him to remember that everything Harry says is a lie and then Harry tells Norman that he is lying, then poor Norman goes into meltdown. They actually used that same bit on an episode of Ghost In The Shell where a couple of the Tachikomas outsmarted one of the security bots with the same thing.
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Re: [1523] DLC may be required

Post by GouryG » Fri May 11, 2018 12:01 pm

Teddy-Werebear wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 11:17 am
DrunkenSailor wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 3:37 pm
I can almost see the techs at SONY entirely judging the success or failure of the EDS project, based on Ping's ability to follow the clumsy game code, and totally ignore that PIng was just reading the code and trying to interpret it as best she could with intelligence and emotions that were totally real. They've created an awesome AI and ordered it to perform stupid AI pet tricks. Awesome and real enough that the students who weren't playing play station games with her completely failed to notice she was a robot after being in class with her for weeks. I think now if she hadn't been in adhoc mode, but was equipped with SONY content about what to do to be a normal student, that the other students would have caught on fast.
DS
"Six million logic functions, maybe more... they make me pick the paper up off the floor." - Marvin -
I see it as Ping's AI is evolving (probably partly due to Largo's tinkering) and she may go beyond her original programming. I think she already realizes that she is more than the sum of her parts. Itis definitely looking like she is following the classic more human than human cyborg trope.
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Re: [1523] DLC may be required

Post by Invisigoth » Fri May 11, 2018 1:07 pm

GouryG wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 12:01 pm
Teddy-Werebear wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 11:17 am
DrunkenSailor wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 3:37 pm
I can almost see the techs at SONY entirely judging the success or failure of the EDS project, based on Ping's ability to follow the clumsy game code, and totally ignore that PIng was just reading the code and trying to interpret it as best she could with intelligence and emotions that were totally real. They've created an awesome AI and ordered it to perform stupid AI pet tricks. Awesome and real enough that the students who weren't playing play station games with her completely failed to notice she was a robot after being in class with her for weeks. I think now if she hadn't been in adhoc mode, but was equipped with SONY content about what to do to be a normal student, that the other students would have caught on fast.
DS
"Six million logic functions, maybe more... they make me pick the paper up off the floor." - Marvin -
I see it as Ping's AI is evolving (probably partly due to Largo's tinkering) and she may go beyond her original programming. I think she already realizes that she is more than the sum of her parts. Itis definitely looking like she is following the classic more human than human cyborg trope.

Indeed...

https://youtu.be/E0E0ynyIUsg

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Re: [1523] DLC may be required

Post by iffy » Fri May 11, 2018 4:04 pm

Roamer wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 3:43 am
Maybe Megatokyo, at least in its current form, was created by Sony to provide a safe space for training the EDS prototypes
It wouldn't seem narrative-wise that Sony created MT, although they certainly could be using it. Yet and then, there's the other potentials like that to us it's Mega, to those inside it only Tokyo. On the Ed side of these matters, he seems to not much in the way of time constraints or oversight. He gets blown up or reduced to atoms or has his head ruined, they fix him up. And he's back out being ineffective, at least when up against those who outclass his power level.
I can't imagine that Ping is the only EDS prototype. You never build just one - accidents happen. Considering what she must have cost, Sony had to have been planning a massive push of the EDS
Seems quite questionable that they're making their own hardware. Which doesn't either way much answer how much in the way of live market research is being done. It also partially assumes the investors weren't being lied to or otherwise used for some other purpose. It just being Ping in this situation or otherwise. There don't seem to be many of her around, but how would we know since we only see what we're shown. Although, Ibara was aware of a project like this etc, maybe there are at least another few SEVS-44936 someplace doing something. Or if that's SEVS and there are more than 44936 (or less than that as operational). We can only guess.
one of the most popular avatars for games disappears, wouldn't that have an impact on the market? And there's a kill order for Ping. Are they worried about Ping channeling renegade Miho? Or that Miho could influence or control Ping somehow?
Allegedly Ping was impacting Miho's ability to get away, or at least Miho said as much in 1352/1353. Ed has been tasked with retiring Ping, ostensibly on the loose and not supposed to be. Yet his success rate so far is about 0% so far, and has he only ended up going against higher-level bosses or was not meant to succeed to begin with. As far as Miho, she allegedly has a number of major character representations (and probably likely minor and unnamed and so on). Although given there's a facility for subjects like her to be supported at, it seems there are more Analogues than just her. Maybe not more of the real thing, depending if that and story sources are the same. Unless not much of anything of what Miho, Ibara, Ed, Dom and the interrogator have said is actually part of the facts.
The big difference in Ping's actions here is that she's acting alone, which I don't think we've ever willingly seen her do before
She's not been very preemptive or outgoing most of the time, but there have been some depending on how you look at it (mostly being bounced off of others) Berating Piro for not paying attention to her, seeking out help from Kimiko, trying to attack Largo, making romance sim moves on Piro.... Seems not so much on her own ever. Although, we still don't know for sure she is acting alone now. That she isn't going through this scenario because there was some kind of message via Junko's phone, or some other way those who had a hand in creating her can somehow contact or control her remotely.

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Re: [1523] DLC may be required

Post by McTrooper » Fri May 11, 2018 6:56 pm

cidjen
The old guy is a hipster?

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Re: [1523] DLC may be required

Post by infidel » Sat May 12, 2018 9:05 am

Really not interested in this subplot. Or the character. Junko is slightly interesting, Ping is not.

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Re: [1523] DLC may be required

Post by Invisigoth » Sat May 12, 2018 12:15 pm

infidel wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 9:05 am
Really not interested in this subplot. Or the character. Junko is slightly interesting, Ping is not.
Thank you for sharing that with us

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Re: [1523] DLC may be required

Post by McTrooper » Sat May 12, 2018 12:28 pm

McTrooper wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 6:56 pm
cidjen
The old guy is a hipster?
Generally a hipster is young like under 30.
Someone that looks old might just be wearing his old clothes.

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Re: [1523] DLC may be required

Post by Roamer » Sun May 13, 2018 12:51 am

darrin wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 11:00 am
EDIT:
Roamer wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 3:43 am
And if one of the most popular avatars for games disappears, wouldn't that have an impact on the market? And there's a kill order for Ping. Are they worried about Ping channeling renegade Miho? Or that Miho could influence or control Ping somehow?
Huh, you just made me realize that a lot of this really hit the fan after Junko got Ping to post all those pictures of Miho, which certainly could have attracted a lot more unwanted attention that just the fanboy horde's.

On the other hand... in looking at the alternative hypothesis that this isn't a date, but something above-board probably to do with Ping, the only hook I'd come up with so far was Junko being curious about Ping, posting questions somewhere, and this guy responding. Another way it could have gone down is if this guy recognized the metadata in the headers of the images they posted ("hey! Ping took those pictures!") and contacted Junko himself. How he convinced Junko that he's worth trusting (and whether he actually is) would remain to be seen.
Actually, it seems pretty likely that the photos themselves could be recognized by Sony based on hidden data in the pictures themselves (known as steganography). If Sony set her cameras up like this (and programmed her not to notice) and IF this storyline is the result of Sony's interest (As opposed to this guy working alone), then Sony itself - or part of it - is trying to reengage with Ping. If so they would have enormous resources to draw on to build a persona for this guy so he would seem trustworthy to Junko.

Not that building a persona like that would be difficult, but this guy seems designed to hit all of Junko's weaknesses, one at a time. Well dressed, dignified, reserved, quiet, well off, not too forward with the girls he dates - I'll bet money, right now, that he doesn't drink while he's around Junko, and he's told her he doesn't drink at all. Either she's Junko's Ideal Man, or it's a fully crafted image made by pros.

If that is true, he's either:
1) A junior version of Dom, working on getting Ping back into the fold - or
2) Another shooter like Ed, only with some self-restraint. Which is why I don't think this is Ed; infinite new faces notwithstanding, I can't recall Ed going two comics without brandishing either a gadget or a weapon. Or Ed saying something which made me want to punch him.

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Re: [1523] DLC may be required

Post by Roamer » Sun May 13, 2018 1:13 am

iffy wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 4:04 pm
Roamer wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 3:43 am
Maybe Megatokyo, at least in its current form, was created by Sony to provide a safe space for training the EDS prototypes
It wouldn't seem narrative-wise that Sony created MT, although they certainly could be using it. Yet and then, there's the other potentials like that to us it's Mega, to those inside it only Tokyo. On the Ed side of these matters, he seems to not much in the way of time constraints or oversight. He gets blown up or reduced to atoms or has his head ruined, they fix him up. And he's back out being ineffective, at least when up against those who outclass his power level. (1)
I can't imagine that Ping is the only EDS prototype. You never build just one - accidents happen. Considering what she must have cost, Sony had to have been planning a massive push of the EDS
Seems quite questionable that they're making their own hardware. Which doesn't either way much answer how much in the way of live market research is being done. It also partially assumes the investors weren't being lied to or otherwise used for some other purpose. It just being Ping in this situation or otherwise. There don't seem to be many of her around, but how would we know since we only see what we're shown. Although, Ibara was aware of a project like this etc, maybe there are at least another few SEVS-44936 someplace doing something. Or if that's SEVS and there are more than 44936 (or less than that as operational). We can only guess. (2)
one of the most popular avatars for games disappears, wouldn't that have an impact on the market? And there's a kill order for Ping. Are they worried about Ping channeling renegade Miho? Or that Miho could influence or control Ping somehow?
Allegedly Ping was impacting Miho's ability to get away, or at least Miho said as much in 1352/1353. Ed has been tasked with retiring Ping, ostensibly on the loose and not supposed to be. Yet his success rate so far is about 0% so far, and has he only ended up going against higher-level bosses or was not meant to succeed to begin with. As far as Miho, she allegedly has a number of major character representations (and probably likely minor and unnamed and so on). Although given there's a facility for subjects like her to be supported at, it seems there are more Analogues than just her. Maybe not more of the real thing, depending if that and story sources are the same. Unless not much of anything of what Miho, Ibara, Ed, Dom and the interrogator have said is actually part of the facts. (3)
The big difference in Ping's actions here is that she's acting alone, which I don't think we've ever willingly seen her do before
She's not been very preemptive or outgoing most of the time, but there have been some depending on how you look at it (mostly being bounced off of others) Berating Piro for not paying attention to her, seeking out help from Kimiko, trying to attack Largo, making romance sim moves on Piro.... Seems not so much on her own ever. Although, we still don't know for sure she is acting alone now. That she isn't going through this scenario because there was some kind of message via Junko's phone, or some other way those who had a hand in creating her can somehow contact or control her remotely. (4)
(1) Here's a nasty thought. If Sony is using MT as a EDS training ground, then learning how to deal with creepy stalker types might well be a cost-effective move. Maybe Ed is here as a training exercise. Here's a nastier one: Maybe the fact that Ed seems to be getting a lot less effective is because they've dumbed him down to make an easy mode for her.

(2) You always make your own prototypes. Even if you're going to farm out production, you make the prototype, because it's the only way to be sure it's spec'ed out correctly. And assuming that each prototype has the same capabilities as Ping, and can change their appearance, then there could be literally hundreds of them and there would be no way to tell. We're going to assume there aren't - a couple of the crowd scenes would have been drastically different if the crowds were packed with EDS models - but it's an interesting thought. Hell, maybe MT is an artificial universe set in a world where the female population has been decimated by disease, and they're creating EDS models en masse to try and keep the young men sane. OK, so that crosses the 'interesting' line and moves into 'creepy', but still.

(3) True, but how likely is it that anyone else knew it? And if she's gone renegade, are they going to try and impede anything that slows her down? As I pointed out to darrin, if Ping's date is working for Sony, the odds are good that he's there to 'retire' her - and he seems to be more controlled, and therfore more professional, than Ed. Not that that's difficult.

(4) She may be doing this based on information we don't know about, but she's still choosing to work alone, without backup, in a scenario where she seems to be intensely uncomfortable, even though she'e the one being 'forward'. It's so much at odds with almost all her prior behavior that it's actually jarring. It's the thing that most leads me to believe that someone is using knowledge of her decision trees and code to manipulate her.

Roamer
Posts: 85
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Re: [1523] DLC may be required

Post by Roamer » Sun May 13, 2018 1:38 am

Invisigoth wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 1:07 pm
GouryG wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 12:01 pm
Teddy-Werebear wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 11:17 am

"Six million logic functions, maybe more... they make me pick the paper up off the floor." - Marvin -
I see it as Ping's AI is evolving (probably partly due to Largo's tinkering) and she may go beyond her original programming. I think she already realizes that she is more than the sum of her parts. Itis definitely looking like she is following the classic more human than human cyborg trope.

Indeed...

https://youtu.be/E0E0ynyIUsg
The big questions are, has Sony realized that they accidentally created an Awesome AI, and are they trying to reclaim her? If the answers are no to the first and yes to the second, then they may just be trying to dispose of her. If the answers are yes/yes, then they would certainly want her back to figure out what made her awesome. Of course, they would probably break her trying to do that, but that's Sony for you.

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Peter
Posts: 11
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Re: [1523] DLC may be required

Post by Peter » Sun May 13, 2018 5:05 am

Roamer wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 1:13 am
Hell, maybe MT is an artificial universe set in a world where the female population has been decimated by disease, and they're creating EDS models en masse to try and keep the young men sane. OK, so that crosses the 'interesting' line and moves into 'creepy', but still.
Not sure about "Mega"Tokyo, the real life Japan has gone through years of negative population growth combined with less desire to commit to marriage and family. This has reduced the numbers of younger people to drastic levels.

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iffy
Posts: 303
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Re: [1523] DLC may be required

Post by iffy » Mon May 14, 2018 12:20 pm

Roamer wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 1:13 am
Maybe the fact that Ed seems to be getting a lot less effective is because they've dumbed him down to make an easy mode for her.
Given his stories about the past, and his behavior and attitude, it would seem he's usually very competent, in a psycho kind of way. He just seemed to be outclassed, and by those who appear to be getting more powerful individually and more coordinated as a group as well.

Maybe the example is he meets up with Miho, promptly forgets she's untouchable (unless she wants to seem so) because she's not of this fabric. (one way to look at it) If Ping has gathered some of this empowerment from Miho, and so have in their ways Erika Kimiko Largo Piro? Certainly somebody who is outclassed, and keeps trying the same methods is going to do worse. Especially against a group of enhanced if the single and unenhanced were mostly beyond his capabilities to start with.

Although also in a lot of ways, there appears no back story or reasoning yet to explain why a company would send an apparently unmonitored agent to destroy something as trivial as a prototype non-h emotional doll system that fell out of the hands of an investor. Although if we take such as 33 fairly literally, there doesn't need much in the way of explanation of why game companies have black ops and enforcement divisions or why destroying something like an EDS might not be a big deal to them, whatever they know. Even if not, how does anyone prepare for somebody fully outside of all rules and modifying the story as it goes along. If you found out somehow what was going on, you'd only be absorbed into the narrative yourself it would seem.
You always make your own prototypes. Even if you're going to farm out production, you make the prototype, because it's the only way to be sure it's spec'ed out correctly. And assuming that each prototype has the same capabilities as Ping, and can change their appearance, then there could be literally hundreds of them and there would be no way to tell.
If it's something being built, out of parts, in the current world out here -- and maybe even for however Ping may have been created wherever she may have created for whatever purposes. The notion was that if this isn't some kind of initial version of an off the assembly line machine and even if it is, there may not be many more. Or even any more, at least not like this one. Yes perhaps there are dozens or hundreds of prototypes but this is the only one that even functioned on a basic level. Or that might be untrue, and she Ping was created uniquely for the purpose of becoming an Analogue or as near as possible.

We don't even know how she is made or of what though. So is there only one or are there thousands? Who can tell.

Regardless, the entire EDS thing may not be true, or she might not actually be one of them. She's got some manuals and has been said to be certain things, but maybe she's the only one like her, or even if not isn't produced off an assembly line from parts. Which just brings up more questions of if it was actually Sony that created her, why anyone would let her into the hands of some random investor unmonitored or just send one guy by boat to go take her out of the hands of who she ended up with. There's quite a bit to consider beyond the easier meta answer.
if she's gone renegade, are they going to try and impede anything that slows her down?
Maybe somebody will try and let her run out of power. If that works any longer. Yet she seems to have advanced far beyond the 'go berserk when ignored' response, so that seems doubtful it would need to be done, or at least not for violent behavior.
if Ping's date is working for Sony, the odds are good that he's there to 'retire' her
If they made her, and sent another operative without bothering to shut off Ed (which given the last time we saw him in 1260 maybe he did need a replacement). Yet this guy here is not much acting like he's trying to do anything like some subtle text to your head before the kill. Are any of our ideas about him are correct, it seems just as easy that he fully believes this is Junko and sees nothing else, and hasn't had anything to do with what Ping is doing. After all, Ping has been acting oddly for a while, "losing Miho" has done something to Ping even on the physical level. Perhaps an extensive amount.
It's so much at odds with almost all her prior behavior that it's actually jarring.
Very much so; it seems very abnormal for her.

It's not just the sudden go very active, preemptive and out alone, or the tricking of Junko and this guy, the thinking she's saving Junko from something she very much doesn't want to do, stealing things. ( Maybe it's not Miho who Ping has absorbed, it's Yuki ; )
The overall change is less nuanced. Looking at the bigger picture, she's leapt from wanting to beat up Largo for not having pants on to arranging dates with her friend's crush that she has never met and trying to seduce them while pretending to be somebody else. And all that appears to concern her is she doesn't have the content to easily do so.
It's the thing that most leads me to believe that someone is using knowledge of her decision trees and code to manipulate her.
This guy gives an impression he seems aware of who and what she is, and we can imagine there's some way to put her into this mode via Junko and Junko's phone. Whoever he is and works for or not, perhaps he arranged this. If it's true, how, and for what reasons, those are trickier. As it is tricky to answer if this is just all more of Miho's unfinished story or the demonstration of what's up with her. Or maybe there's nothing here beyond it just happened. There is nothing much aside from expectations and perception to show this didn't all just accidentally happen on its own. That Ping hasn't become fully autonomous, simply as a matter of side effects causing growth, unplanned by anyone in MT.

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