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[1519] Everything to do with me

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Re: [1519] Everything to do with me

Post by paarfi » Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:33 am

DrunkenSailor wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:42 am
So how is this going on AFTER Kimiko STOPPED playing Miho? Don't know. Anything here would be pure conjecture.
I don't know either. But I THINK it is because it's not entirely up to Kimiko anymore. Erika still has fans and the idol mojo long after she quit. Adam West was Batman for 50 years after he stopped playing the character (and continues to be even after his death). The character of Miho's Story may not stick to Kimiko as hard or for as long, but the effect is still there. There is an inertia because the connection to the character is no longer in will of the actor, but the will of the audience (ie the horde). And we've seen how powerful the horde's will for Miho's Story can be.
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Re: [1519] Everything to do with me

Post by iffy » Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:03 pm

Yes it looks like once you start to have consumers paying attention to you and your portrayals, there appears no longer much if any control by the performers over what those consuming works think of the work or life, who is who and what is what. Which it would seem the first fan of Kimiko's was Piro, if that makes any difference. ( Whereas quite a few were latched onto Kotone, but not to Kimiko's portrayal since it wasn't there yet, and at the start Miho might not have been involved, at least not directly, either. )

As far as the question of how many times Miho has done that shuddering sort of thing. Went over things starting at the fight with Junpei again, Miho has reacted oddly twice when sensing things, with the main reason apparently being some meaningful change in the nature of the story. First is 1461 when either Kimiko as herself, Kimiko as Miho, or Miho (depending on the viewer/watcher/listener and their perceptions) proclaims her love for Piro. Second is 1514 right after we leave Piro helping Kimiko wash her hair. Although in both 1461 and 1514 there's at least one other take on Miho's reactions. 1461 might be when the non-participants start believing Miho finally says what she's been keeping not there for years, and 1514 is supposed to be or might be Miho realizing how gut-wrenching her situation is.

As far as all the other more difficult questions. What exactly is Miho. Character or story source, analogue, the real thing; are these the same, what do they mean. Does she have her own feelings. How much control does she have over initial conditions or later events. How old is she, is she immortal. Can she escape, does she want to escape, is escape the correct word. Can she be replaced. What is the link between her and who she is potentially mentoring or infusing. What is her goal, or are there not really any goals.

Quite a few unanswered things. It just seems so much easier to believe everything Miho does is an act, and for some unfathomable otherworldly reason.

Well, she does seem pretty upset in this last panel of 1519, maybe she's been turned into some standard anime character type or something. Although when it has to do with her buddy Kimiko playing her in real life.... Ach we don't know much of anything (besides what we think) except where we left off. Which leaves a whole lot of questions of its own, and a great deal that could happen when and if we get back. Maybe we should just wait for the current goings on to head someplace.

Does what's next include Miho in the current (in-between stories) story interacting with them, or will nothing more relating to the current artist and Idol at the love hotel situation happen until there's a new story. Or can there be no new story (Yaku writing it or otherwise) in this environment until the artist and idol arc goes further, is solidified or ends. I guess we just need to wait and see what's next.

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Re: [1519] Everything to do with me

Post by DrunkenSailor » Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:16 pm

Yes but how long does it take her powers to send orgasms to Miho Ethereal Express to go away. Will it go away? With Kimi heavily involved in a scenario (that's what their calling it these days) with Piro, a game Miho wishes she was playing, will she be doing this a lot? And her job, voice actress. Her growing skills as a CA would REALLY come in handy there. Sure however that happens, Miho now knows and can't ignore some other woman's doing the nasty with HER man and enjoying the heck out of it!!! Why should it matter how?

Sigh... I don't know

At the end of the day, I just want to know how photon torpedoes work. Can they shoot around corners, be guided. Why aren't they just called missiles. So the plot makes sense to me. I feel uncomfortable knowing so little about all this. We need a Van Helsing to come along and explain this stuff to me. I want the corners the characters find themselves in to be cured or caused by the way this stuff works and understand enough of it for it not to be all non-obtanium in a phlebotnium derived plothole matrix. I don't want all this cool magical stuff to be no more than the backdrop for a romance book like WWII in a Hollywood movie.

That and I now want a subplot. A subplot where a mid-boss has Sweet little Kimi in his dungeon, or she is trapped under a collapsed basement stairwell and she summons help by sending a text message to Miho by, um... masturbating in Morse code.

Sigh..

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Re: [1519] Everything to do with me

Post by Sackett » Wed Apr 04, 2018 1:04 pm

On the question of hair color I would say that Kimiko could be classified as a very light brunette (probably called something like "Honey Brunette") or as a dirty blonde (something like an "Amber Blonde").


Not all blondes are flaxen haired with golden sunshine in her hair.

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Re: [1519] Everything to do with me

Post by Teddy-Werebear » Wed Apr 04, 2018 1:25 pm

Why DS... you make this comic sound like pure torture for Miho for now and evermore.

:D :lol: :D
Last edited by Teddy-Werebear on Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: [1519] Everything to do with me

Post by Invisigoth » Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:20 pm

I think DS has been over in the unMod universe snorting endorphin analogues and watching transgender midget amputee porn

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Re: [1519] Everything to do with me

Post by iffy » Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:46 pm

Miho's reactions seem more like revulsion. What might be expected from people walking all over your grave when you're still alive. Or in thinking about what vis just said.

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Re: [1519] Everything to do with me

Post by darrin » Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:54 pm

DrunkenSailor wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:42 am
And finally. Yay for Fred. He has totally one upped every goofy Japanese sex scene censorship method ever. He has managed to illustrate an orgasm ( two of them now), by drawing a different girl, in a different part of town having the shivers.
Well, the censorship methods aren't universally applied of course, and I don't just mean in the raunchier ones; sometimes the more mainstream ("innocent") stuff is pretty up-front about what's going on. In the next to last chapter of Koharu no Hibi, for example, it's really obvious what, er, process the title character is undergoing (rather vigorously in fact :oops:), and there's no real "censorhip" of that attempted beyond a) the participants being fully clothed and b) no one saying anything about it during or after (e.g. she doesn't scream out loud that that's what she's doing :roll:). Fred's work here by comparison is orders of magnitude more subtle (so much so that to be honest I'm not completely convinced yet that's what's actually happening, but I have been in enough rathole debates lately that I'm gonna leave this one alone and keep my mouth shut).

But to your larger point, yes, Yay for Fred, agree with that 100% :lol:. Lots of plot points zipping around, and it will be fun to see which of those vectors converge and which just end up poking folks in the eye. ;) ("Is that a removable singularity or are you just glad to see me?")

EDIT:
(Dammit, I said I was not gonna get ratholed this time by everyone saying "Oh it's a given that blah blah" and "it's obvious that blah blah" while I waste my time with alternate hypotheses and likelihood estimates, what the fsck is wrong with me.) In 1513, Kimiko is shivering, obviously with cold as opposed to any more, shall we say, pleasurable sensations. (She just backed away from Piro in the previous strip, has doused herself with icy water per his instructions, and while mentally no doubt still in the mood, has probably not had time to recover physically from the dousing yet.)

Immediately after, in 1514 1st panel, Miho is seen shivering (for the first time). Maybe not violently shivering, but pretty heavily. (Considering Fred has to the best I can recall never used "motion lines" in MegaTokyo until these latest, it is a near certainty that this is an Important Plot Point regardless of specific cause.) As always it's anybody's guess how much time passes between 1513 panel 2 and 1514 panel 1, but the "pacing" of strips lately has been pretty fast; I don't think it's a bad guess to say these "shiverings" are intended as simultaneous. If so, that would mean Miho is shivering because she's cold. (That would contribute to explaining why Miho in 1514-1519 isn't expressing a particularly "happy" (wink wink nudge nudge) face, but continues to look frustrated and angry (which she does before Yaku drops her various bombs in 1519, so she's not (yet) frustrated by P+K's love hotel antics whatever they may be).)

1514 through 1519 pass in relatively quick succession; there is a fair bit of dialogue, but it's a rapid back-and-forth, not really a meandering relaxed conversation. A few minutes' worth at best. Is that really enough time for Piro to have finished cleaning Kimiko's hair, gotten "busy and freaky in that order", and achieved completionism already? I doubt it. It seems more likely that he is still cleaning the gunk out of Kimiko's hair. Miho has been distracted by the successive shenanigans of Ninjagrrl and Yaku (and so is not seen to shiver), but then in 1519, in a lull in that conversation, when Miho is thinking and talking about Kimiko again, she shivers a second time... from cold.

Yeah, yeah, the orgasm theory is probably more likely. But this for me explains why Miho's facial expressions have been looking so decidedly un-orgasmic contrary to this claim for the past half dozen strips; and removes the nagging doubt I had but couldn't put into words before, that Piro has not previously been depicted in the comic as quite so fast a mover.
Last edited by darrin on Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:42 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: [1519] Everything to do with me

Post by jkhartl » Wed Apr 04, 2018 6:31 pm

DS - I am having trouble picturing those scenarios. Maybe you can sketch it out for us.
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Re: [1519] Everything to do with me

Post by darrin » Wed Apr 04, 2018 6:50 pm

jkhartl wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 6:31 pm
DS - I am having trouble picturing those scenarios. Maybe you can sketch it out for us.
Ooh, I second that motion. DS, please feel free to mark said sketchings as NSFW (New Speculation from Forum Writings) if need be.
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Re: [1519] Everything to do with me

Post by Yl33 D4 N00b » Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:46 pm

I agree with jkhartl; DS needs to make a "goosed Miho" comic, or two..... ;)
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Re: [1519] Everything to do with me

Post by Rapierman » Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:13 pm

....and, so, the love triangle begins. :lol:
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Re: [1519] Everything to do with me

Post by cidjen » Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:01 am

I would be mostly with @darrin on the psychic link, except it doesn't really make sense... For Miho to be linked to Kimiko that way.

If something makes more sense here, is that Miho can feel what Piro feels. Which plays well into the theory that Miho does love Piro.

The shock on exit of the hospital scene? Is when Piro hears the unexpected confession.

The shiver when Ninjagrrl talks to her first ("someone goosed you") ? When he sees and feels Kimiho on top of himself in the car.

This shiver is more likely to be when he tells his conscience off before going to the shower, time-wise.

His 'general feelings/emotions transmitter' functions well - these are pretty resilient in normal humans - he is capable of sending such emotions, but because of what Miho did 2CY ago, he is unable to receive them back from her.

The 'receiver antenna in direction of Miho' dish is burnt. Hence he can not believe her being true any more. The little scene in the Megagamers shop (where Yuki intervened seeing Miho's fake tears) obviously did not do well to repair anything.

His receiver from Kimiko direction had just received a massive impulse (of Miho love, amplified by Kimiko's acting) that some of it is leaking back to the general transmitter :)

Sorry for electronics analogies ;)

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Re: [1519] Everything to do with me

Post by llavar1 » Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:24 am

Yaku is definitely criticizing Fred's work and is taking over the story.
We can usually see Fred's credit stamp in the upper right corner of his comics.
In this comic, Yaku has overwritten it, specifically with the way she wants the story to be.
It's her comic now.

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Re: [1519] Everything to do with me

Post by Yl33 D4 N00b » Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:03 am

Rapierman wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:13 pm
....and, so, the love triangle begins. :lol:
Screw it, let's just go full harem, and throw in Megumi, Ping and Yuki, too....... :roll:
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Re: [1519] Everything to do with me

Post by darrin » Thu Apr 05, 2018 11:35 am

cidjen wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:01 am
I would be mostly with @darrin on the psychic link, except it doesn't really make sense...
To be honest no, I am still not strongly convinced of the "channeling / physically linked" idea. I am just saying that even given that assumption, there are other possible explanations besides "orgasms" for what's going on.
llavar1 wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:24 am
Yaku is definitely criticizing Fred's work and is taking over the story.
For some time now every time I write "Yaku" I keep thinking of the Yakoo people from Moribito. I keep half expecting one of them (edit Miho, Ninhagrrl, Sawataris) to start talking about magic weavers... :?

I suppose I should go back to calling her Yakugashi, but I am still amused enough by my confusion not to want to quash it yet. :lol:

EDIT:
Yl33 D4 N00b wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:03 am
Screw it, let's just go full harem, and throw in Megumi, Ping and Yuki, too....... :roll:
Sorry gonna have to politely disagree on that last one there. No offense to Piro but if he tries going up against Kobayashi he is gonna find himself in a no-win scenario, I tell you what.

I already impolitely disagreed with Invisgoth on Megumi, so that just leaves Ping...

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On that one I would heartily say screw society, Piro, go for it. :lol:
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Re: [1519] Everything to do with me

Post by iffy » Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:32 pm

There don't seem to be any odd looks from Miho elsewhere while that broken glass car rescue is going on, not there during the initial conversations between Miho and whoever that really is. 1479, 1483...

The other two though

1461 Miho in 7 and 8 is confused then revolted.

To something happening externally, something unphysical. Kimiko as Miho is figuratively shoving some strong statement of emotional fact into the audience off of or through Piro. Miho herself is dumbfounded in panel 7 and disgusted in 8. Not happy feelings, but odd ones, akin to Largo in 2 and Erika in 3. But Miho's reactions are instead after what happens in 6 to story. 6 sets up a higher peak that crashes farther and more resoundingly into the rocks when that story ends as "Miho" dies in 1463:12.

1514 Miho in 1 is shuddering and blushing.

From what we read in 2 and 5 she has just finished explaining what she is. (Apparently no better than she did for Piro, but whatever.) Yes certainly that reaction could be instead or also to elsewhere, the cold water hair wash finishing or the start of something that is just beginning to happen. But Miho there in 1514 is mostly trying to avoid interacting with Enjii, letting the ninja girl convince herself of her own ideas and perceptions. While Miho appears nothing but tense and uncomfortable, not calm and wonderful.


The reactions and situations being reacted to are in 1461 and 1514 and appear different things but most likely linked to big story changes. The only real indication there's something else going on, is what Enjii says she thinks about it. Which if one perceives the ninja girl knows something and is being accurate, that's fine, but Miho's reactions don't appear to match very well to that opinion, or to what is going on elsewhere. There's nothing going on the first and there hasn't been any time the second. Anything being possible of course. So, is remote goosing going on in some paranormally literal sense, or is it just inference or projection from the audience. Only time will tell.

In the meantime though, there seems little to no direct in-story support for the idea Kimiko is changing into an Analogue, or that Miho and Kimiko are somehow physically linked. Miho looks to have no visible reaction to most anything that happens, unless it's happening at the same time as an apparent seismic story shift. There's also little to establish Kimiko is channeling Miho even nearly in the way Miho suggested Ping was, and that appears to have been not actually true, if the subject being dropped and Ping's later behavior (Junko having to remove her from the Internet) is any indication. The camaraderie and understanding that's gone on between Kimiko and Miho has been in person, and it's not even clear what that is or why. Or that it even is, as later Miho apparently tries to dissuade Kimiko from continuing Sight as Miho preps to have the hufs hit the breaking point on Piro's arrival, tells that locket and Necrowombicon laden 'everyone else dies, girl is locked away in shame until some player accidentally finds her' story. Which story Kimiko doesn't believe or take seriously anyway.

The only outlier there looks to be Kimiko's 'pretty bewildering given the serious situation' behavior in the car, but that can be explained in a number of ways (guesses). Such as by her figuring out the relationship with him wasn't going to grow if she couldn't help him make a choice, and that setting up this situation might be the most likely to help. Piro making that choice that he doesn't want to make in any direction, wanting to leave things like they were. Getting him to stop refusing to believe anything but hanging on to the past and doing nothing. Who does he think it is, as we know, he consistently says Kimiko's name and treats her as if she is Kimiko. (Plus he never has made any physical moves towards Miho and neither had she to him. Pick any interaction, best one is the bath house for obvious reasons.) He goes along with Kimiko more than once, and even does so on his own initiative.

Also, IMO at least, not just Piro treating Kimiko like Kimiko, doesn't spend all his time angry and arguing and thinking and trying to get away, has physical contact. Also Kimiko behaves like herself much of that entire time, including the picking a room at the love hotel, and not much like Miho most of the time. Except during the proclamations on the debris heap inside hospital. (If that matches Erika's snide comments in 1464 and 1467 about acting skill IDK, but it's at least an indication others too thought she was pretty much being Kimiko even on the debris heap.) The trip in the car, that' s nothing Miho ever did. Unless there was some cyber behavior similar to that in those chats we weren't allowed to read. But that's just guessing. Nothing in comic (including at the apartment and bath house) suggests Miho even virtually anywhere near crawled all over Piro in some lovey dovey manner. Which kind of makes Yaku's comment in 1519 about "your lover" even more humorous, given the lack of any physical contact between the two ever. Although of course, Miho says something like that to Kimiko and calls Piro that at some point, even if she wasn't serious and being ironic or sarcastic. Although maybe that sort of outlook by Yaku is good for this new story that might eventually get written. Or maybe it just shows Yaku is just as locked into the perceptions and opinion based upon insufficient information as everyone else is. Which if that reminds us of Yuki most of the time, perhaps youth and inexperience is universal.

Although we have another question there, regardless of how good or bad Kimiko's acting was on purpose or accidentally. Who or what was the portrayal for? Not the reason, we know it was supposed to be to make it so Miho didn't have to die to end the story. But intended for who? The otaku are still following, the authorities are still following, the ninja know Miho isn't really dead, Megumi and Largo and Piro and Erika all think/know it's Kimiko there. The Horde seems on the verge of reappearing at any second at any wrong turn or stumble. Ping and Junko have lost track, so have Yuki and Ririka and Yutaka, we don't know about Masamichi or Meimi but they seem unaware as well. If we discount the meta and exclude us, that leaves Miho. Except she knows she's not dead either. I suppose the only answer there would be the target of the subterfuge was the story? It certainly at least seems to have changed course a couple of times.

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Re: [1519] Everything to do with me

Post by Liminaut » Thu Apr 05, 2018 11:58 pm

If Miho is shuddering at orgasms, that's a really short time between two orgasms. Maybe Piro has a Rod of Lordly Might after all. BUt I'm going with shuddering from the ice cold shower.

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Re: [1519] Everything to do with me

Post by Teddy-Werebear » Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:06 am

Liminaut wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 11:58 pm
If Miho is shuddering at orgasms, that's a really short time between two orgasms. Maybe Piro has a Rod of Lordly Might after all. BUt I'm going with shuddering from the ice cold shower.
Or the start of teh unskinny bop... :mrgreen:

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Re: [1519] Everything to do with me

Post by iffy » Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:45 pm

Lots of things are possible between 1461 and 1513/1514. It's just not too convincing from reactions it's anything good.

As far as that goes, in 1461 Kimiko doesn't appear to be in any calm mood, she's acting the tragic heroine professing her love just before she dies. Then also right in 1461 we also get Miho's reaction to story change, audience (or horde) mostly convinced, sky clearing. Maybe supposedly what she's been working for, but perhaps not in the way she imagined, and ostensibly not conscious knowledge.

Miho reacting to "her" proclamations of love, and the situation clearing, etc.
Image

There's ambiguity in the time 1513 to 1514, perhaps even on purpose... Might be like the time between 1000/1001 might not be. In 1513 at first Kimiko is similarly to 1461 not relaxed. Her cold self with wet (if mostly toner-free) hair is then brightened up by Piro's making a decision, things are just starting. Is Miho's reaction next in 1514 mostly to this story change? Or is she reacting more to her own explanation she just gave. Or has time gone on in between 1513 and 1514, bathing done, moving along. We have the first two, but don't necessarily have any reason to think there's been some large amount of time between the fade out and scene change.

We can only guess if there's anything more than virtually no time and Piro starting to help Kimiko continue cleaning her hair. No sign that more (himself bathing, them talking like normal people for a change, discussions of today's crazy events, unwinding, continuing what went on in the car, staying in or leaving the shower area) has happened. But we did see there's been both a story shift and an explanation. So we have an answer, even if we don't know if there's more to the answer or not.

In 1514 we get Enjii suggesting goosing, is she correct or do we just want to agree with her because. Yet being assaulted, psionically or otherwise, isn't a pleasant experience for most normal people, likely that's also true for an Analogue.

Story change, potentially more, recounted what she is. Conversation continues.
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Re: [1519] Everything to do with me

Post by cidjen » Sat Apr 07, 2018 4:35 pm

Well who actually knows how much time did Miho spend alone after Junpei left, before Enji started changing her clothes? she totally could have dozed off for a bit. We don't actually know how long it takes to drive from the hospital to The Foxhole too. We know that Junpei brings Yakugashi to her after he helped Megumi and after Yakugashi learned where Miho is. So somewhere something took place between comic pages, Enji decorating Miho while Miho explains her story (well, that could have taken a long time actually.)

I still think, it makes more sense that Miho is tuned in to Piro's emotions, rather than Kimiko's.

(there have been examples before, though not in all cases - Miho is feeling unwell and faints when he's depressed (at school) or insecure (the 3 way Anna Millers encounter)... not all Piro's emotions are reflected in Miho (no visual rejoice when he seems to be happy after Animate, or no physical impact of the Train Wreck) but that could be caused by something else - those are targeted at Kimiko then and... oh boy is she living through those, heh...)
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Re: [1519] Everything to do with me

Post by BetaCygnus » Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:29 am

Invisigoth wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 9:04 am
BetaCygnus wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:30 am
Invisigoth wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:29 pm


That's not going to do her any good at all
…and so Teddy got what he wanted. =D
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I was thinking: not any good at all for Miho is exactly what Teddy wants — if I read him correctly. 8-)

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Re: [1519] Everything to do with me

Post by iffy » Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:37 am

cidjen wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 4:35 pm
Well who actually knows how much time did Miho spend alone after Junpei left, before Enji started changing her clothes? she totally could have dozed off for a bit. We don't actually know how long it takes to drive from the hospital to The Foxhole too. We know that Junpei brings Yakugashi to her after he helped Megumi and after Yakugashi learned where Miho is. So somewhere something took place between comic pages, Enji decorating Miho while Miho explains her story (well, that could have taken a long time actually.)
Junpei flying cuts down on the traffic certainly. It took some time though (it's not mgspeed it's ninjaspeed) to get Miho from hospital to compound, Miho for her part at the compound didn't seem to do anything lengthy, the interactions between Mino and Enjii didn't seem too time consuming. Getting to the hotel probably we guess might have took longer, so there's some overlap and compression? But we do see 1461 is all one two, and between 1513 and 1514 seems rapid, and both kinda cause and effect ish y. Although for the second, cause and effect also fits 'tell the story, get squicked out about it'. Or something else.

How much is which reaction to what? We are experienced somewhat in how we have an artist, a virtuoso, a master, a king, at setting up situations where it isn't clear which of the alternatives is the one to go with, alone or mainly or mostly. Or if the unexpected unthought of is actually the case, or having the unlikely being a hidden away truth for somebody. Or at least looking like that until something changes once more. Although again, it's also easy to jump to conclusions in the middle of things. Or to stick to what had seemed likely even when a new likely arrives. To hold onto old ideas when new ideas should be at least considered until shown wrong. Or like often, not really shown either way. But that's out of our control in a certain sense.

What's in comic, action and reaction. 1461 is a bit more clear-cut, it being all in the same comic, and not much expecting there were time gaps between panels. 1513/1514 that's a bit confused, whatever the reaction was to and however real it was, since we don't know how much time might have passed between seeing Piro and Kimiko and seeing Miho. Yes, perhaps Miho's reaction in 1514 was to telling her own story. Yet I do rather tend to chalk up later in 1514 being the ninja girl inferring Miho's reaction was to telling her story, when it was actually to something else. Such as it having been minutes between 1513 panels 5 and 6 and 7 and getting to see Miho's reaction in 1514. Ah, perception.

What we didn't do is put together a montage of reaction, and what seemed to be reacted to and might have been reacted to. With the unknown time between left off the second set unfortunately.

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