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[1100, 1101] player one wins / what's wrong with j00 / blast from the past

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cidjen
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[1100, 1101] player one wins / what's wrong with j00 / blast from the past

Post by cidjen » Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:18 am

So I went through comments on archives... on these 2

anyhoo...

the Player One Wins comment, is it not appearing right where Miho is behind the stage poster ? Considering where she is Or so I think.
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iffy
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Re: [1100, 1101] player one wins / what's wrong with j00 / blast from the past

Post by iffy » Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:54 pm

All of that seems to be something like Miho deciding Kimiko or Piro or Sight etc needs a chance to continue? One of her most serious non-troublemaking interactions, what and why ever for.

Doesn't seem any particular reason "player one wins" is there in 1100 panel 4, and with no word bubble not from Sayurri (if multi language even) or Kimiko (wouldn't say it especially in English) , and who else but Piro would get both sides of what's said (except he'd probably not notice being a participant, and wouldn't say something like that anyway we think). Unless it's a crowd utterance (why?) or temp art comment not removed (which then why name 1100 that name).

It appears if they're back of the stage area we see in 1101 panel 1 and given that Miho understands all of the conversation, that would lead to her. Why she'd say it and who is player one and why did they win. Contextually, given the chapter itself, and the goings on, the best guess might be something like Largo because he succeeded in not driving away Erika and so Miho called off the rampaging event. Time for her to go.

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Re: [1100, 1101] player one wins / what's wrong with j00 / blast from the past

Post by cidjen » Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:30 pm

iffy wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:54 pm
All of that seems to be something like Miho deciding Kimiko or Piro or Sight etc needs a chance to continue? One of her most serious non-troublemaking interactions, what and why ever for.
Seems like quite an ominous one, in context of what we know now.

Doesn't seem any particular reason "player one wins" is there in 1100 panel 4, and with no word bubble not from Sayurri (if multi language even) or Kimiko (wouldn't say it especially in English) , and who else but Piro would get both sides of what's said (except he'd probably not notice being a participant, and wouldn't say something like that anyway we think). Unless it's a crowd utterance (why?) or temp art comment not removed (which then why name 1100 that name).
Some of that was in the archive ;)
you were there too :)
Consensus back then seemed to have been, that it was none of those things.

It appears if they're back of the stage area we see in 1101 panel 1 and given that Miho understands all of the conversation, that would lead to her. Why she'd say it and who is player one and why did they win. Contextually, given the chapter itself, and the goings on, the best guess might be something like Largo because he succeeded in not driving away Erika and so Miho called off the rampaging event. Time for her to go.
Hmm in context of what Miho said later - "I wanted to watch them lose games they could not win - but when one of them did not lose, I wanted the other to win as well" - the first one if we assume is Largo, then the second one is Piro... not just because of the timeline, aka Largo was first to 'not lose' - but she gestures (in 1121) closing her fist... people usually do that when they mean something personal; and the online relationship most certainly falls into that category...

So I think Miho did comment in 1100 on how Piro 'wins' with Kimiko; it was right after the AM Train Trauma, after they reconciled, it wasn't exactly a high point in their relationship but this 'player one wins' would indicate the way Miho thinks it's going to go, and then in 1121 she would say she wants to prevent this from happening... which we now know, she was unable to, because Yuki found (also no-thanks to Piro) her hideout and Piro held her back from 'going away', and due to Kimiko The Actress taking her place in the Story, and by Piro's side (which somehow if all of that did not happen, she thinks she could reclaim someday? (Piro's side, I mean, not the Story 'cuz she hatez that) ).

So it must have been Miho reusing this 'relationship is a game' trope back in 1100, Piro and Kimiko being the 'protagonist' and the 'target', the player and the players' target.
Or so I think.
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Re: [1100, 1101] player one wins / what's wrong with j00 / blast from the past

Post by iffy » Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:05 pm

Right, many of the same discussions and ideas back in the archives. This was more like a summary of the choices in determining who said player one wins in 1100:4. It's sort of an informed guess it is Miho saying that, yet it's the only thing that really seems to fit anyway. After the time gone by, it's likely all there ever will be. We might as well treat it as so, even if it's not.

As far as who she means, a toss up of sorts. While Erika/Largo is pretty much established at that point, it still isn't quite fully. Not as solid as it is after the "nine days" goes by, and then the Sonda dinner, required clubbing and princess adventures. We can probably count Ikebukuro at the ending (just before Miho leaves) as "establishing" ExL, with the later things confirming it. Which the end of Ikebukuro also furthers a tentative or potential KxP narrative. That is, fitting it all into the end of the chapter, the four of them (okay, Erika and Kimiko) inviting Miho to eat. Then Miho leaving (be that hiding or story-dying) so as to not interfere with the further development of those relationships.

Although fitting that into what happened before and happens after rather assumes the comment "player one wins" is mostly about relationships. Maybe that comment isn't about "winning" in those ways though. Perhaps it's instead about not getting one or more of: ending the radio show in a horribly messy way, finishing off Sight, stopping Kimiko's rise to Idol, Piro not continuing on path to being an artist, anyone putting the dead gone past to rest. A win then being the lack of perceived "bad things" happening. A mix of things as a win, with what constitutes winning varying inside of multiple contexts. (Which for some who aren't player one, outcomes being non resolutions or a losses)

For examples. In 1100 Largo wants to get rid of the undead rangers tactical strike force, and Piro shushes him (more worried about his own focus, the short-term, show continuing), but Miho does apparently gets rid of them (as a longer-term focus of not having other disruptive things happen then and later). That act of calling off the zombies suggests Largo as winning at that. Even if it's not the same sort of win as what Miho is thinking in 1121. Perhaps though instead, 1100 is about Piro winning, also in a different way than whatever Miho is thinking later. Piro winning, in that here she's calling off the attack, because of Largo, but for Piro's benefit. Yet, really, if the zombies don't disrupt the event, that's what Piro wants but not for himself so much, which player one then could be Kimiko. For that matter, theoretically it's Sayuri or meta-wise us. Or for Miho herself, 'calling off the zombies' so they'll go gather at the 1123 location. The point being, regardless of who said player one wins or why they said it, it doesn't explain directly who player one is or why them, because it could mean many different things depending on the scenario(s) involved.

All in all then, this "win" in 1100 might or might not be what Miho is thinking later, regardless of who player one is or isn't. While getting to the radio show suggests player one is Piro, that could be in addition to or in spite of the other possibilities covered in 1100. Other things that make sense only in Miho's thoughts. Yet regardless of who player one is, this winning (at certain games, or in changing the story, or at something else) is not necessarily the same kind of win in all explanations. Depending on who is perceiving that win and what it constitutes.

Who is player one and what is the win and why was it said, that covers quite a lot of things. Which to some extent also goes for what it means in 1121, what exactly Miho is thinking and what she means when she says "But he isn't going to". The topic in 1121, seems not much the same as player one winning back in 1100/1101. Yet yes, it might be the same. Which is about as unanswerable as the question in 1122 if she's changed or not. Or if she has changed, how. After all, she's very abstract in 1121/1122 almost like doesn't know what they think or doesn't want us to know. As we don't know the difference to her between wanting and needing, or if the win (or lose or draw) scenarios are of the same kind.

To break down time to leave:

--1121 Miho thinks: i wanted them to lose. i wanted to watch them lose games they couldn't win. i needed to see them fail. but when one of them didn't lose... i wanted the other one to win as well.

This seems to refer to Largo and Piro, the games being all the things going on, which appear to mostly revolve around a romance sim aspect. That could mean Miho had purposely set up situations where the two wouldn't likely be able to succeed. It could also mean she was unable to make that function properly, or it could be the way it operates she doesn't necessarily have control over the outcome of events she "sets into motion". That not functioning properly does seem a bit bogus though; she didn't apparently try very hard to make anything fail. But those are her thoughts, so maybe she's attributing more determination and direction to events than they actually have. Perhaps she isn't actually doing anything much proactive and is only personalizing randomness and fate. Although that doesn't quite fit with a number of the things she's done or ways she's behaved, such as not letting you play, friend check, perspicacious girl, calling off the zombies. A lack of control not fitting also includes that end to chapter 9, where the only two options seem 1. Dying and coming back to life 1124 - 1247 or 2. Getting out of the way of the blast in 1123 (as in 1000).

For what she says, filling in the likely targets, there are games Miho wants to see Largo and Piro lose at, even needs to see them fail at. Yet one did not lose; ExL seems well along its way but is not fully finalized, thus isn't a win yet. Yet she wants the other person to win -- as well -- apparently she also counts not losing as winning. At least gives us an idea of the future she might see. Conclusion from that, Largo didn't mess up what was going on with him and Erika, so she wants Piro to not fail with Kimiko. Which if she wants or will work for that particular outcome, it at least suggests Miho might be honest later when she says she's not a choice, meaning Dom is correct in his assessment she's not that applicable any longer. Maybe it also puts some perspective on Piro hanging on to notions of a past that's mostly imaginary and is no longer available anyway.

--1121 Miho says: "But he isn't going to."

What is that. Statement of fact, desire, wild guess, what she wants, what she doesn't want, what she'll work towards, what she'll work against.

There are a lot of ways to think about that, but she seems determined, and it is the only thing she says out loud in 1121. Inside the gaps. To nobody. In English. The problem is gathering intent or context out of the words and the circumstances, then or now.

--1121 Miho thinks: he isn't going to lose... but he isn't going to win.

This is rather incomprehensible, even if she does clench her fist with.... whatever emotion that signifies. It doesn't help explain if this non-lose non-win is what she wants, needs, doesn't want, doesn't need. Is it preordained and can't be stopped, is it what will happen if somebody is not careful. Will she work at making this non-outcome be the case or work to stop it.

When it's all over she might be wrong about that being result. That from some important perspective there is actually a loss, or a win, no matter what she thinks or says here about it beforehand. If she's talking about Piro and certain in 1121 he won't lose or win, he could still lose or win anyway. Regardless if she is correct in 1121 about what the truth is or would be.

This also doesn't explain if there will be some sort of a draw, or some combination of wins and losses that cancel each other out. About what? When? How? To who or which perspective(s).

--1122 Miho says: "Have I.... changed?"

Has she? From what to what. How. Or not. So!

Miho has just unclenched her fists, and is wondering if making (or letting) the non-lose-non-win happen (or not happen) signifies something. Or doesn't. Is it different this time as in 1032? Or is she wondering if her caring (wanting or needing or planning) is abnormal for her. Because she's doing something new, like rescuing somebody? Or, because she's not doing anything new, she's okay with it, perhaps even looking forward to... whatever it is she's doing.

Then in what seems a very Moh-like unfwipping of ribbons walks along, seemingly at least somewhat pleased with herself.

As we find out in 1123 and beyond, she goes out to go be greeted by undead rangers as their queen, where Ed is waiting with killballs to get rid of Miho so he can go terminate Ping the errant PS2 accessory. Which as Miho waves at Ed, apparently her goal was to go there and be blown up by killballs. For all intents and purposes Ed at this point permanently eradicates Miho, as far as Ed, Meimi's feelings, and some of us are concerned. Gone forever, or at least for the next roughly week and a half until Yuki and Piro go to find Miho where she is. After retreating under cover to there, or ends up at after being cloned, or respawning, or moving through dimensions. Whatever it is she did between after 1123 and before 1248.

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