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Re: [1511] "cold water and hot lava"

Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:36 am
by Skorpion
Piro, piro, piro. You're not going to get a clearer signal than this without her pushing you to the ground and raping you.

However? Shared showers are not like the romantic ideal. There is enough water and space in a typical shower for one (1) person only, and Kimiko needs some major washing done. I foresee awkwardness happening.

Re: [1511] "cold water and hot lava"

Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:01 pm
by cidjen
Hehe just got a really crazy one.. Kimiko will slip in the shower and wake up in bed, next to Piro who fell asleep having rescued her , didn't have time to even bathe...

Re: [1511] "cold water and hot lava"

Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:38 pm
by Ubu
arimareiji wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:56 pm
Mightion wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:42 pm
Liminaut wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:36 pm
(snip) Since Piro is named after a pet cat, he might have been fixed.
I refer you to 296. Specifically panel three. :D EDIT: And 295, now that I look back.
I'll see your 296:3, and raise you a 79:2. (^_~)
I call.

334.6 :geek:
336 :ugeek:

Update: "Fixed? The boy warn't never broke in the fust place!"

Re: [1511] "cold water and hot lava"

Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:31 pm
by jkhartl
I don't think there will be a problem in the bath. This is a love hotel after all and "bath play" is a thing (so I have been told). Google love hotels images but you should have some brain bleach on hand.

Re: [1511] "cold water and hot lava"

Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:51 pm
by Calaron
I have to agree with Paarfi's conclusions, if for different reasons. Piro's a Nice Guy, and I think part of being a Nice Guy is never be overconfident in how physically attractive you are to women, and rarely if ever interpret "signals" in an overly optimistic (from a certain point of view) way (or maybe that's just me?). I also think Kimiko should know Piro well enough by now to know that this can't be anything more than a final tease of sorts, and that an actual, 100% unambiguous invitation is the only way she's going to get him to join her in the bathroom (but I could be mistaken - and so might Piro). Which has already been established to be a cold shower, and that seems rather counterproductive to me anyway if that's the route she was going to take.

I expect that unless she's literally, verbally going to say something along the lines of "Won't you join me?" - and no, "get off the floor" is not going to do it - Piro's just going to lie back on the bed and maybe play a video game like Megumi suggested, while having a conversation with Kimiko through a (closed) bathroom door.

Re: [1511] "cold water and hot lava"

Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:58 pm
by iffy
It would seem Piro is good at 'romance games' because he likes them, and also knows from experience how to follow the logic of action/reaction in those types of games. Yes certainly reality is far less helpful in determining such things, being messy and everything that pathing in games really isn't. Then, Piro is good too at FPS, better than Largo seemingly because Piro is calm and strategic and tactical and focused, and isn't running around being immersed and such? Largo appears very good too, but just not compared to Piro. It would seem Largo's playstyle is only mostly of use (at least when "against" players at Piro's level) is in MMORPG, where the imagination and such is important, and the mechanics and timing perhaps less so. At least if one has the proper character class, and the correct people in the group working as a group.

As to Kimiko and Piro. Hidden ideas and secret thoughts may make all sorts of things possible, potentially, of course. Yet while the last comic and this one (and a few before it) aren't 100% clear or informative about everything, they are certainly not all that unclear about what is likely. One of those things that's likely is that outwardly at least, none of this is because of Miho. If it's ever been true, it certainly doesn't much fit anything that's been going on recently.

1510 has the two of Kimiko and Piro in close proximity (as they've indeed been for the last {x minutes to n hours}) and getting to the understanding things, all in a more direct way than they had been previously. Both act more like real people interacting. Kimiko was, and still is, being playful. She jokes about Piro going through all the trouble to rescue her Kimiko while playing Miho... and not planning on continuing!?!?! Piro did step into the leading role to rescue Kimiko, from the situation of playing as Miho, for Kimiko to save Miho, as exactly Kimiko and Piro have both been working on doing. Kimiko took the lead there, let me die for her and help get her away and out of this predicament Junpei finds himself in, etc. It's not just Sight in game form that Piro and Kimiko are working on together. Have been working on for a while. Even everyone sees them as dating (except for perhaps outwardly Piro, which isn't probably surprising he's as unselfaware as Yuki was about Yutaka). And perhaps Megumi opened Piro's world view a bit here, a Ping-Junko moment of sorts maybe. Either way, Kimiko lands on Piro, he stays there, they spend a while looking at each other in an apparent not awkward way. She doesn't get angry or surprised when he confusedly and uncommitedly (she is after all behaving kind of weird) says "What?" and "No-" in 1510:3&4. Then a kiss, looks, some more understanding, while she rather wistfully decides it's time to be more her her. Or whatever that is she's doing as she snaps into somewhat practical thoughtfulness of things and stuff.

Then indeed, 1511 -- she has to stop being, who? The general lack of assertive actions by Piro may just be more of the usual hesitant wanting to be nice and proper to excess. Perhaps it's even a mark of cluelessness. But whatever else it seems pretty clear he isn't at all thinking about Miho. Not probably because she's out of the story, hidden away, and he's forgotten her, but maybe because she's not a concern, he's saved her a few times since yesterday, she's fine and also of the past. Kimiko is the here and now. That not thinking of Miho seems somewhat obvious too; Piro has been thinking about Kimiko as Kimiko (with some role playing on both sides to carry out the mission) since seeing it was Kimiko in 1460. He's been aware it's Kimiko, and treating her like Kimiko. Of course he says who in panel 1, Miho apparently is the farthest thing from his mind. It is Kimiko who keeps bringing that aspect up, not him. If that was a test (even if not on purpose) he's passed it a number of times again and again. Then he starts to Oh yeah and mention the girl that never was and still isn't, but Kimiko slyly and and lightly stops him from saying it. Done. That's all pretty self-explanatory just in the first panel. But wait there's more. She takes his advice about cold water toner seriously, then gets out of Piro/Kimiko thinking mode about the overly practical. She giggles again and makes a joke again. What does that say, perhaps that she's interacting with him in a way that makes them both comfortable. As is the oh well it's my fault time to wash the hair, so she can return and the two of them not ruin the sheets. Or at least only get some water on them. The invite is nothing anyone's likely to mistake, on her part I think it's genuine, and if he doesn't have some other issue precluding him physically or mentally, why wouldn't he follow, even if it's in the same hanging-back reactive way. If he's been worried about being too pushy -- the giggling non-serious playful Kimiko telling Piro to not stand there as she unhooks might be enough to finally let him know it's okay.

Yes of course we don't know what he's thinking or wants, or if somebody else will show up. But they are both here still, and seem comfortable, and there's not any question of what she's saying. Unless he thinks she means don't stand on the floor it's too hot hahaha. Or he thinks she means go wait on the bed while she washes her hair alone by herself pay no attention to being in underwear and saying don't stand on the floor there while she's removing things. After all she doesn't specifically tell him he needs to follow her, doesn't sign and notarize a letter instructing him to join her in the shower, hasn't as of yet gone and grabbed him and brought him along with her.

Which is to say, it would seem the only issue here still to consider if is if he still feels this is not right, if it's still too easy. Given his behavior since at least the car, it wouldn't seem that's still a concern of his.

BetaCygnus wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:30 am
GreyWolfe wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:02 am
This is Japan dude, everything is tiny.
…except for Tokyo. ;)

Yeah, this Tokyo is MEGA.

Re: [1511] "cold water and hot lava"

Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:35 pm
by Rapierman
klange wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:44 am
I just want to take this opportunity to say: y'all are weird.
What? You haven't noticed this before? Did you forget who I work for and where I live? That's two primary sources of wierdness right there! :lol:

Re: [1511] "cold water and hot lava"

Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:09 pm
by shadowrider
I think both Kimiko, and Piro need a cold shower. Though Piro probably does need to clean up from the glass shards from the car. (and from running around from the hospital too.)
Kimiko is being understanding enough that she is giving Piro an option. Which is either continue with at least forming a better relationship with Kimiko here,(Thus the 'Don't stand in the Lava', comment.), or hang onto his hopes with Miho.

Note: I suppose the flooring and theme of the room is just decoration, made to stimulate lava.


Re: [1511] "cold water and hot lava"

Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:00 pm
by Arlyeon
Panels 1, Then 5, then 8. She positively smoulders in each one- I'd say there's no real mistake that she's made an invitation, and it's certainly as herself.

Having had these kind of deliberate invitations made in past, I'll wholly acknowledge I've been dense enough to miss some of these cues- perhaps due to an excess of politeness, and a general sense of anxious unease.

And the nostalgic fondness and gradual rekindling of communication between him and Miho has been progressing- though whether it burgeons into something romantic, or simply culminates in him 'saving' her from the way her story traditionally ends poorly, and establishing a friendship with her is ...pretty up in the air, especially since him and Kimiko do have chemistry.

I don't think Piro strikes me as the kind of person to engage in a one -off however, even if Kimiko would intend for it as such. I'm fairly certain that he would feel guilty about it.

And I also don't get the impression that it -would- be meant for a one off on her case. I translate this pretty directly to an 'I want you, if you're up for the taking'.

It's not pushy though, it's pretty damn respectful of his ability to choose- which makes it pretty much the classiest bit of seduction I can think of in graphic literature that I've read in a while.

Re: [1511] "cold water and hot lava"

Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:40 pm
by iffy
There is that continuation of 'make a choice' aspect. And sometimes it seems neither piro can (or doesn't want to, perhaps just not yet) decide. But it seems less about who, and more about how quickly and when, with the one he's treating like an actual person and that he's interested in working with and beyond. Not the one he doesn't remember, then treats like a phantom or pet, and is often overtly hostile to. Which she's started another story at the ninja compound anyway, which has not yet by Yaku and Junpei been dragged back anywhere and might not be.

We have seen for quite a while though how Piro has treated the two. He has seemed to treat Kimiko as special and has generally seemed more afraid of messing up than anything else. Not that he hasn't, but it's been fixed eventually it seems, and continues on. (Sure, he feels comfortable enough to get angry at Kimiko when he feels she went way out of line, but it comes at a cost so large his conscience talks to him as an adult, and it even bothers Miho to the point where she appears to take steps to try help fix it rather than mercilessly take advantage of it.) He doesn't try and show Miho artwork, or think she's out of his league, or get despondant over when she disses him; Miho calling him lover versus Kimiko railcard rebuff at beer garden, say. He doesn't try and fix Miho's perceptions about much of anything it seems, as he does with things like Kimiko and the Ping dinner gift incident. He doesn't even often react to Miho, except when he does things like get angry at her for trying to take advantage of Largo. Piro is polite enough most of the time to Miho, but he doesn't even hardly glance at her regardless of the situation. He doesn't appear to defer to her or seem to care what she thinks mostly (except really when she did things like accuse him of being interested in Yuki and giving information to Yuki and Kimiko) . With Kimiko though, he appears careful about how she feels. Even when she asks about the laptop and the old situation, Piro seems to tell her as much as he's capable of including, and that he thinks he acted stupidly and childish about it all. She understands and is empathetic with him. (Versus Erika insulting Largo about it lol ). I don't remember just about any coversations with Miho like that, they're mostly superficial piffle. Maybe the most telling are his apartment and bathhouse conversations with Miho. It's about her and what she is mostly. He doesn't seem to express regret about a love that was gone, or that he missed her or anything like that, but mostly really only his ire at what she did and how. The tricks, the lies, the weirdness, and her responses of just about nothing don't even seem to much bother him. Following that also at bathhouse, the discussion with Komugiko is about gettting out of there, and the only emotional part from most any of them is how they feel about their Endgames characters. Whatever all that was and is between them, none of it appears to be things that would impact what he does now or not. If it was love, they sure spend just about no time talking about. it, except that undercurrent it was about what happened how, not a fond rememberance of romance that appears by and large only in Endgames or only in their heads in how they remember the good parts. Which again, even here in the rescue, it's Kimiko he's helping and carrying around. Stop being who?

As often said, we don't and can't really know what he is thinking right now, and yes he appears just about the same practical holding back not acting sort of way here as the last time he was alone with one of them around water. (A difference of course is that Piro hasn't done anything yet here, but the last time neither of them did anything except "discuss" fixing Miho's fan problem or whatever that was, and also neither hinted they cared to offer at all. ). That is, this hasn't turned into a cold interaction and then disaster that turns into another story.

Yes people do have intimate relations sometimes. Often too, many occurences are not considered that big a deal in the grand scheme of things by the participants. We might say, these things happen. Certainly it's entirely possible nothing will happen, for whatever reasons within or without of Megatokyo. Many of the reasons would at this point appear to be him not wanting to make a decision or commit to more or put finality on anything. It appears a moot question entirely to ask what Kimiko is thinking (generally speaking). Which rather leaves when and if he's going to do what. But again, that appears to have not much to do with whatever the real thing is, or whatever the old and apparently decidedly unromantic seeming story is.

Re: [1511] "cold water and hot lava"

Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:53 pm
by SteelBlaidd
paarfi wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:02 am
Well, from my perspective (and I know a lot of folks will disagree), that turned out about as well as it could have. Kimiko heard the "no" that Piro couldn't say straight out, and she not only understood and respected it, she ran with it. She turned his confused mumblings into the equivalent of "go take a cold shower", but she did it with a genuine smile. She made him feel less bad about how close they had both come by both excusing herself as "being Miho" and giving him the out of assuming that he was thinking the same.

Piro and Miho aren't married, but in his heart Piro is committed. This near hook-up with Kimiko could have been something Piro would come to really regret. Once Kimiko really saw that, she thought of more than herself and did more than most would do. She's a good friend.
Whatever the relationship between Piro and Miho is now, the romantic part died a looooooong time ago.

Sides which, he's probably won games with multi-girl endings, and in any case a romantic relationship is not the only win condition.

Now while some guys you have to hit with a really BIG brik, Kimiko is officially his girlfriend and has been since the start of Christ 10 (2008). If nothing else I would expect him to help wash her hair.

Re: [1511] "cold water and hot lava"

Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:57 am
by HakuRyoku
I'm just going to throw this out there because I can.
Skorpion wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:36 am
Piro, piro, piro. You're not going to get a clearer signal than this without her pushing you to the ground and raping you.
That isn't entirely accurate, if Kimiko wanted to be clear she could just verbally ask you know, <"Hey Piro, would you like to have sex with me? Right now? Or should we wait until after I wash the toner out of my hair?"> Its direct and unambiguous, no way for that 'signal' to get misread. Ofcourse we know she won't directly ask like that, and Piro won't even try to read any signal the boy's morality is fear driven. He is afraid of reading it wrong and screwing everything up. (This is ofcourse ignoring anything Fred has/had planned for Kimiko that she has been misbehaving on.)

Re: [1511] "cold water and hot lava"

Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:51 am
by Roamer
GreyWolfe wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:37 pm
Rapierman wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:28 pm
Nothing personal, but this is just me wanting the "poor schmuck" to win something for a change in terms of personal relationships. I suppose I'm a bit of a hopeless romantic in a sense. Can't fault me for that now, can you?
The problem here is that Fred is determined that Piro should never 'win' in MT, whilst Kimiko is having other ideas about it.
Given that the whole point of most stories is the growth of the main characters, what does this say about Piro and his role? Largo is certainly getting a lot of chances to grow as a person. Piro seems to just be stuck as 'white knight, rescuer of maidens.' Will his spending one night with a girl who is totally into him going to damage him in some way? Yeah, the're fictional creations, but this seems mean after everything the guy's gone through. I won't call it torture - but I might change my mind if she takes off that top in front of him.

Yes, some of the hardcore fanboi types would freak out. Tough.

The only way I can make sense of it is if Piro is actually supposed to be a white knight, and is limited to the (literally) medieval idea of Courtly Love - The idea of a knight loving someone who is unavailable, such as a married woman or a nun. And that just seems odd, unless there's some kind of need for this for the story. Is that the missing piece that Miho needs to escape from her story? Anybody have any better ideas?

Re: [1511] "cold water and hot lava"

Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 2:18 am
by Teddy-Werebear
GreyWolfe wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:02 am
This is Japan dude, everything is tiny.
Teh Foxhole is a love hotel... hmmm, just what does a love hotel provide space for again?
I would lay a paycheck on there being room for the freaky deaky in all rented space.
Plus video games and karaoke, because Japan.
Next comic could be them both in their underwear playing a two player love sim.
That would be dastardly of Fred to pull...

Re: [1511] "cold water and hot lava"

Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 2:41 am
by cidjen
Or get to know his Endgames character, and her (Pirogoeth's) offspring with M0h...

however I wrote that before on the forums so pretty sure that ship has sailed

Re: [1511] "cold water and hot lava"

Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 2:52 am
by Gran Kaiosama
We all know Piro is a blockhead some times but come on. This is a fool's proof invitation, he likes her she likes him, is not that complicated and they deserve a little moment of peace and love 8-)

Re: [1511] "cold water and hot lava"

Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 2:53 am
by jkhartl
HakuRyoku wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:57 am
... and Piro won't even try to read any signal the boy's morality is fear driven. He is afraid of reading it wrong and screwing everything up.
Too many dummy slaps from Seraphim.

Re: [1511] "cold water and hot lava"

Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 4:06 am
by arimareiji
Gran Kaiosama wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2018 2:52 am
We all know Piro is a blockhead some times but come on. This is a fool's proof invitation, he likes her she likes him, is not that complicated and they deserve a little moment of peace and love 8-)
My paraphrase of an old truth:

Anyone who thinks he's made something foolproof has BADLY underestimated the ingenuity of fools. (^_~)

Re: [1511] "cold water and hot lava"

Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 7:46 am
by paarfi
Fred started working on the next comic last night. You can watch him draw it live on Twitch.

Re: [1511] "cold water and hot lava"

Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 9:39 am
by NinjaDefenestrator
I was really looking forward to this update! Fred, you did a masterful job of conveying choice and consent through body language alone.

Disclaimer: I’m firmly in Paarfi’s camp regarding Kimiko-Piro-Miho relations, so that bias influences how I view each comic.

It was a nice touch that Kimiko shut Piro up before he could finish his sentence in panel 1. That kept focus on the two of them, rather than allowing a big pink Miho-shaped elephant into the room. Right now, Piro Protagonist is playing a different scene.

In the context of “playing a scene,” I found it telling that once he got over being shellshocked, Piro seemed less flustered than most people would be with a gorgeous, nearly-naked individual straddling them. No stammering, no averting his eyes, no indication that this is uncharted territory for his and Kimiko’s nominal relationship. To him, Kimi might as well have been wearing a parka and mom jeans. He only touched her because he was focused on getting the toner out of her hair.

(of course I could be misinterpreting, and he’s in denial or overwhelmed by HOLY CRAP HERE COMES SEXYTIMES or paralyzed by indecision, but that’s not the impression I got)

Kimiko, on the other hand...yowza. In the previous comic, she recognized Piro’s lack of consent in the moment and backed off with impressive composure, given the circumstances. In the last panel, she’s giving Piro the opportunity to pick up where she left off, and making it abundantly clear what she hopes his choice will be.

Warning: conjecture to follow, may be off in crackpot territory.

A key difference between the last comic and this one is that in Kimiko’s mind, she had been portraying Miho until now. Remember how she once said that acting out characters was how she channeled emotions that she couldn’t express on her own? From her perspective, Piro made out with Miho in the car, not Kimiko. She was trying to be his fantasy, so to speak. Now, as she invites him into that shower, she’s being herself.

However, throughout her entire performance, Piro never saw Kimiko as anyone but herself. I hope she doesn’t take that too personally.

I think I have an idea of what might happen in the next comic, but I’m keeping it to myself because I’m scared that Fred will decide to troll us all with a scene change back to Yuki being stupid with Chewtoy or Meimi dealing with ZomZom or something, and then we’ll have to wait like two months to finish up here.

(please no scene change, please no scene change...)

Re: [1511] "cold water and hot lava"

Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:26 am
by Hetz
I am calling this comic is a scene change to different characters, either Miho at the ninja household or more of Largo and Erika. Or possibly we find out what Dom and Ed have been up to this past several "years".

Re: [1511] "cold water and hot lava"

Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:58 pm
by HakuRyoku
NinjaDefenestrator wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2018 9:39 am
I was really looking forward to this update! Fred, you did a masterful job of conveying choice and consent through body language alone.
Maybe for YOU that's consent, (lucky f-k) I've been in that situation before and about ended up with a 2X4 embedded in my head.

Re: [1511] "cold water and hot lava"

Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 5:24 pm
by cidjen
I don't really think Piro is ready to accept going back to Miho yet. He's barely nursed his emotional state back to being sort-of normal (from not being able to even talk to school girls at the start of the comic, to surviving the Miho-death scene now, with some apparent composure) (or more importantly, Kimiko helped him to achieve that).

Miho may be getting a different story now, that does not involve the the ones she loves being killed, so the horde won't be dangerous to anyone who might get romantically involved with her, but we don't know what it would be, yet.

Piro doesn't even know yet where she is or what she's up to; I guess this adds to the uncertainty we are observing in him now; if not a scene change, i suppose he may be asking Kimiko to tell her what actually happened, or Kimiko will read his anxiety and tell him herself.

Kimiko went from 'he's not even my type but he may be the one that understands me even a little' and being told to give the guy a chance, through being sorry for accusing him of being 'macho' to score with her, to encountering Miho and listening to her story; Now she could have used acting/channeling Miho as the 'way to feel what her character feels'; I'm thinking, she could be planning to use that as an excuse to get out of the way of getting Piro x Miho back together, if that ever happens in any way;

So in the broader sense, some smooching and body comforting between Piro and Kimiko, if any of that happens, if we are even shown anything, may not go a long way or be any sure sign of how things are going to resolve between the three of them;

Re: [1511] "cold water and hot lava"

Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 6:43 pm
by Liminaut
We've all been thinking about this from Piro's perspective. What about Kimiko's?

She is offering Piro everything. She is offering herself: mind, heart, and body. And Piro is rejecting her. Even if he doesn't say so, even if his rejection comes in the form of indecision, it is still rejection. And that is going to hurt like hell. No matter how understanding she is and how adult she acts, it is going to hurt like like hell.

I'm afraid Kimiko is heading for the wrong end of a train wreck. :cry:

Re: [1511] "cold water and hot lava"

Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:39 pm
by Yl33 D4 N00b
I would assume in a love hotel, showers are made for two, right??? ;)