[1596] reference material

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arimareiji
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Re: [1596] reference material

Post by arimareiji » Mon Aug 09, 2021 1:06 pm

A healthy person like Seraphim giving Piro a hard poke about sexual dysfunction, I'm absolutely down with.

Largo talking about his own sexual dysfunction, kinda cringe but funny.

An unhealthy person like Miho taking potshots at Piro and vice versa, interesting but a little painful.

Largo of all people mocking Piro at length for sexual dysfunction in front of Kimiko, with Erika amplifying it for him: Somewhat more enjoyable than NTR, which might be the lowest possible bar I could set. (But there are people who enjoy NTR, and earlier responses show there are people who enjoy this, so I'll leave it at de gustibus non est disputandum. *shrug*)

All I have to say is that if the groundwork is being laid (no pun intended) for Piro and Largo to part ways instead of making up (despite Largo's Miho-hatred coming to a head in 1395-6*), it's highly credible. I guess this is his "combwack" (1397).

* - I had no idea it had been 100+ strips; had to search a bit just to find it. Does anyone have a rough guess for how many comic-days it's been?
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Re: [1596] reference material

Post by Eraden » Mon Aug 09, 2021 1:56 pm

arimareiji wrote:
Mon Aug 09, 2021 1:06 pm
Largo of all people mocking Piro at length for sexual dysfunction in front of Kimiko
This inference is incorrect. Largo is not mocking Piro. In fact, he's simply describing the problems with the "reference material" as "matter-of-factly" as one might describe a game guide that has bad tips. It's easy to make this incorrect assumption though, because that is what most people might think about when dealing with such a sensitive subject. Largo is not "most people". He's way the hell out somewhere in left field and not planning to ever come back unless Erika drags him kicking and screaming and even then I suspect that will never happen because she's somewhere out there with him. On the other hand, Erika might actually be making a few digs at Piro, herself. She's savvy enough to know better but she still takes a shot at him.

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Re: [1596] reference material

Post by arimareiji » Mon Aug 09, 2021 2:36 pm

Eraden wrote:
Mon Aug 09, 2021 1:56 pm
arimareiji wrote:
Mon Aug 09, 2021 1:06 pm
Largo of all people mocking Piro at length for sexual dysfunction in front of Kimiko
[emphasis removed, since I didn't make it]
This inference is incorrect. Largo is not mocking Piro. In fact, he's simply describing the problems with the "reference material" as "matter-of-factly" as one might describe a game guide that has bad tips. It's easy to make this incorrect assumption though, because that is what most people might think about when dealing with such a sensitive subject. Largo is not "most people". He's way the hell out somewhere in left field and not planning to ever come back unless Erika drags him kicking and screaming and even then I suspect that will never happen because she's somewhere out there with him. On the other hand, Erika might actually be making a few digs at Piro, herself. She's savvy enough to know better but she still takes a shot at him.
I can see it as possible that Largo isn't intentionally mocking Piro, that he's too clueless to realize that's what he's doing. But he is doing it nonetheless.

Personally, 1395-1397* makes me lean toward it being intentional - i.e. this is the comeback Largo wanted to give back then. But your mileage may vary, and I can't say with any certainty that you wouldn't be correct.
* - Largo tries to stop Piro from taking off in a [vain] effort to help Miho, rants about how 3vil Miho is, how Piro should let t3h Hord3 devour Miho so he can get it on with the girl who will buy b33r and give a fsck about Piro's girly crap, etc. Piro punches him to make him let go, gives a pithy retort, and takes off. Largo still wants to make him stop so he can give a "combwack", but Erika and his broken nose conspire against him.
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Re: [1596] reference material

Post by Invisigoth » Mon Aug 09, 2021 2:38 pm

Piro is being taunted for reading bad shoujo manga. His sexual performance has been outstanding as far as Kimiko is concerned and Erika incorrectly assumes that there was a Ménage à trois with Kimiko x Piro x Megumi leading to the scene with Piro "petting" the gorgeous nine tailed foxgirl in the corridor when she and Largo arrived.

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Re: [1596] reference material

Post by Eraden » Mon Aug 09, 2021 2:51 pm

arimareiji wrote:
Mon Aug 09, 2021 2:36 pm
Eraden wrote:
Mon Aug 09, 2021 1:56 pm
arimareiji wrote:
Mon Aug 09, 2021 1:06 pm
Largo of all people mocking Piro at length for sexual dysfunction in front of Kimiko
[emphasis removed, since I didn't make it]
This inference is incorrect. Largo is not mocking Piro. In fact, he's simply describing the problems with the "reference material" as "matter-of-factly" as one might describe a game guide that has bad tips. It's easy to make this incorrect assumption though, because that is what most people might think about when dealing with such a sensitive subject. Largo is not "most people". He's way the hell out somewhere in left field and not planning to ever come back unless Erika drags him kicking and screaming and even then I suspect that will never happen because she's somewhere out there with him. On the other hand, Erika might actually be making a few digs at Piro, herself. She's savvy enough to know better but she still takes a shot at him.
I can see it as possible that Largo isn't intentionally mocking Piro, that he's too clueless to realize that's what he's doing. But he is doing it nonetheless.
Again, I believe this to be incorrect. This has NOTHING to do with how Piro feels. Mocking someone REQUIRES ILL INTENT ON THE PART OF THE PERSON DOING THE MOCKING. Definition of the word: "making fun of someone or something in a cruel way". Largo is not trying to be cruel. He is simply stating things as factually as he can. It doesn't matter how bad Piro feels. It only matters if Largo MEANS to make Piro feel bad. I submit that Largo is so socially dysfunctional as to not have a bloody CLUE that he is making Piro feel bad. Erika, on the other hand, should know better and thus I suspect she IS mocking Piro.

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Re: [1596] reference material

Post by Roborat » Mon Aug 09, 2021 3:09 pm

This is almost as good as the last page. And I find Erika just going along with Largo's insanity very amusing, luckily nobody else apparently understands english. it looks like taking the focus off our freshly sprouted magical fox girl helped her calm down a bit, so that is good; although I find Kimiko just taking the tails in stride, like it is a routine thing in her life, very interesting. And hopefully now that granny has arrived, we can get more backstory on the nine-tails issue, I am very interested in what she will have to say on this.

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Re: [1596] reference material

Post by Eraden » Mon Aug 09, 2021 3:16 pm

Roborat wrote:
Mon Aug 09, 2021 3:09 pm
This is almost as good as the last page. And I find Erika just going along with Largo's insanity very amusing, luckily nobody else apparently understands english. it looks like taking the focus off our freshly sprouted magical fox girl helped her calm down a bit, so that is good; although I find Kimiko just taking the tails in stride, like it is a routine thing in her life, very interesting. And hopefully now that granny has arrived, we can get more backstory on the nine-tails issue, I am very interested in what she will have to say on this.
Granny had better be on her best behavior when dealing with Megumi. That newly minted nine-tail is still as of yet, untested in terms of power. It wouldn't be wise to become the first "testee".

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Re: [1596] reference material

Post by arimareiji » Mon Aug 09, 2021 4:04 pm

Eraden wrote:
Mon Aug 09, 2021 2:51 pm
Again, I believe this to be incorrect. This has NOTHING to do with how Piro feels. Mocking someone REQUIRES ILL INTENT ON THE PART OF THE PERSON DOING THE MOCKING. Definition of the word: "making fun of someone or something in a cruel way". Largo is not trying to be cruel. He is simply stating things as factually as he can. It doesn't matter how bad Piro feels. It only matters if Largo MEANS to make Piro feel bad. I submit that Largo is so socially dysfunctional as to not have a bloody CLUE that he is making Piro feel bad. Erika, on the other hand, should know better and thus I suspect she IS mocking Piro.
I've acknowledged it's possible Largo is incapable of understanding the effect of what he's saying. But I continue to believe there's good reason to think it's his conscious decision. I've already explained why, and I'll leave it there since you refuse to acknowledge it.

Even assuming there is no intent, and using your definition, a "cruel" action does not require intent. The definition I'm guessing you'd prefer is "disposed to inflict pain or suffering : devoid of humane feelings". But it describes a person, not an action. The next definition is the relevant one, since it refers to an action or event: "causing or conducive to injury, grief, or pain".

My probable lack of further response on this topic doesn't mean I won't read yours. It only means that I don't think there would be much point, if we've boiled it down to a matter of de gustibus non est disputandum.
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Re: [1596] reference material

Post by Eraden » Mon Aug 09, 2021 4:26 pm

Piro may have felt that it was cruel, but if, as I suspect, Largo is doing this in a completely deadpan manner (as if he is merely concerned about the validity of the "reference material"), then he is not mocking Piro. We are talking about mocking, here, not whether or not Piro felt that it was cruel. It may very well appear to others that it seemed cruel. However, mocking requires intent. There are a lot of actions for which society finds it necessary to prove intent. Murder is the ultimate example of this. You simply can't go around convicting people of certain actions or behaviors without proving intent, unless you want a completely chaotic society. Now, if as you say, Largo is actually aware of all of this and actually meant to hurt Piro, then he's a hell of a lot more canny than I or a lot of other people have given him credit for. If that is the case, I might have to go back over some of the earlier strips to see if we have something of a mad genius here.

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Re: [1596] reference material

Post by arimareiji » Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:42 am

Eraden wrote:
Mon Aug 09, 2021 4:26 pm
Piro may have felt that it was cruel, but if, as I suspect, Largo is doing this in a completely deadpan manner (as if he is merely concerned about the validity of the "reference material"), then he is not mocking Piro. We are talking about mocking, here, not whether or not Piro felt that it was cruel. It may very well appear to others that it seemed cruel. However, mocking requires intent. There are a lot of actions for which society finds it necessary to prove intent. Murder is the ultimate example of this. You simply can't go around convicting people of certain actions or behaviors without proving intent, unless you want a completely chaotic society. Now, if as you say, Largo is actually aware of all of this and actually meant to hurt Piro, then he's a hell of a lot more canny than I or a lot of other people have given him credit for. If that is the case, I might have to go back over some of the earlier strips to see if we have something of a mad genius here.
arimareiji wrote:
Mon Aug 09, 2021 4:04 pm
a "cruel" action does not require intent.... "causing or conducive to injury, grief, or pain".
Which means that your own definition shows no intent is required, but you continue to repeat it as if I hadn't said a word.

All the best; I hope ongoing conversation with yourself will be enjoyable.
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Re: [1596] reference material

Post by Teddy-Werebear » Tue Aug 10, 2021 1:11 am

I am making the prediction that we will never actually see...

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Re: [1596] reference material

Post by Eraden » Tue Aug 10, 2021 1:19 am

Cruelty might not require intent. You can be cruel to someone without intending to be. MOCKING does require intent. You keep skipping over that part of "making fun of someone". When you mock someone, there is intention there. I think this is where I must part ways in this conversation as well. Your attitude is quickly beginning to shift here and statements like "ongoing conversation with yourself" are showing a certain level of disrespect that is not conducive to any further discourse. I never showed such disrespect to you, but somehow, you feel justified in doing so to me. Think about that.

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Re: [1596] reference material

Post by arimareiji » Tue Aug 10, 2021 2:25 am

Teddy-Werebear wrote:
Tue Aug 10, 2021 1:11 am
I am making the prediction that we will never actually see...
Tfw when Teddy makes you feel like Janet in Rocky Horror Picture Show... :shock:
gifShow
Image

:lol:
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Re: [1596] reference material

Post by Arent » Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:24 am

Eraden wrote:
Mon Aug 09, 2021 1:56 pm
arimareiji wrote:
Mon Aug 09, 2021 1:06 pm
Largo of all people mocking Piro at length for sexual dysfunction in front of Kimiko
This inference is incorrect. Largo is not mocking Piro. In fact, he's simply describing the problems with the "reference material" as "matter-of-factly" as one might describe a game guide that has bad tips.
Well, the point is that Largo gets on Piro's nerves since the very beginning of the comic. Largo "mocking" Piro is an integral part of Megatokyo.

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Re: [1596] reference material

Post by arimareiji » Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:52 pm

Arent wrote:
Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:24 am
Eraden wrote:
Mon Aug 09, 2021 1:56 pm
arimareiji wrote:
Mon Aug 09, 2021 1:06 pm
Largo of all people mocking Piro at length for sexual dysfunction in front of Kimiko
This inference is incorrect. Largo is not mocking Piro. In fact, he's simply describing the problems with the "reference material" as "matter-of-factly" as one might describe a game guide that has bad tips.
Well, the point is that Largo gets on Piro's nerves since the very beginning of the comic. Largo "mocking" Piro is an integral part of Megatokyo.
True. But not at length in a sensitive situation, double-teaming with Erika. And generally with a feeling of "casually giving each other crap, but actually being on each other's side."

It upped the ante a couple of levels over the usual, even above the time Largo was saying Piro should let the Horde devour Miho so that he could get with a girl who would buy Largo beer and "give a fsck about the girly crap you are into".

Nota bene, in case it matters: The emphasis above isn't mine. It was misleadingly attributed to me, but Eraden was actually the one who did so to make a special point of it (not me).
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Re: [1596] reference material

Post by Voyager » Tue Aug 10, 2021 3:52 pm

Side note: he isn't discussing it infront of Kimiko or Megumi. He cannot understand what they are saying, nor can they understand him.

The only people who can are Piro, Erika, and himself. Erika already knows about all of it, because she lived it for her professional career.

That also means his comment on 1595 is completely separate from the discussion about what Poor was doing in the hallway. All he knows is Piro's with both Megumi and Kimiko, and Erika was initially torqued about something, but that is it.

Edit: Pronouns. Pronouns are important...

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Re: [1596] reference material

Post by Roamer » Wed Aug 11, 2021 5:53 am

Largo's never displayed the kind of ego that had trouble admitting ignorance. I think it's possible or even likely that from his perspective he's just sharing learned information here. This requires a pretty big leap of faith about what constitutes 'reference material' but Largo's odd enough that it's not too unreasonable within the constraints of the MT world. He discussed it with Erika, and is now presenting his findings to Piro. Nobody else in the room understands English, so he's not giving Kimiko or Megumi embarrassing information. After all, if he doesn't understand the concept of 'Porn', why should he not discuss it openly?

Now, Erika is absolutely teasing him. Which isn't terribly out of character with her friends. The way she's draped over Largo, her overall body language, and the blush in panel six...those are out of character. In fact, I would go so far as to say they are the first possible evidence of influence by Moeko on Erika. So how much influence is she having?

That's a discussion I think I'll let Teddy start.

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Re: [1596] reference material

Post by Invisigoth » Wed Aug 11, 2021 8:36 am

...so...Roamer caught that...and TWB might be right....carry on

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Re: [1596] reference material

Post by Zandra » Wed Aug 11, 2021 2:30 pm

To all who are thinking Largo is not doing this on purpose,does it really matter? the result is still the same. Erica knows this is highly upsetting to piro as in she can see his body language. maybe kimi zilla needs to put her in her place again. There is a saying in the law."ignorance is no excuse" So even if someone "accidentally" was killed it is still murder if the persons ignorance contributed to it.

I feel this is the tipping point for these two. Personally since the real largo is gone i think its time this one leaves as well.
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Re: [1596] reference material

Post by Eraden » Wed Aug 11, 2021 3:22 pm

Zandra wrote:
Wed Aug 11, 2021 2:30 pm
To all who are thinking Largo is not doing this on purpose,does it really matter? the result is still the same. Erica knows this is highly upsetting to piro as in she can see his body language. maybe kimi zilla needs to put her in her place again. There is a saying in the law."ignorance is no excuse" So even if someone "accidentally" was killed it is still murder if the persons ignorance contributed to it.

I feel this is the tipping point for these two. Personally since the real largo is gone i think its time this one leaves as well.
Yes, it very much DOES matter. It defines in part, who Largo is. This is not all about Piro's "feels". If Largo is doing this to deliberately hurt Piro, then he's a callous cad. If he is doing it because he's (in his mind) merely discussing a "game guide", then he's just being "socially inept Largo". Your example is a bad one. The charge of murder is reserved for someone who's INTENT was to cause harm or death to another individual who as a result, has indeed died as a result of the first person's efforts. Otherwise it is merely manslaughter, a much lesser charge. Proving intent is extremely important in western courts of law. How a victim of bad behavior feels is important but by no means the sole defining factor in terms of assessing a bad encounter.

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Re: [1596] reference material

Post by Teddy-Werebear » Wed Aug 11, 2021 5:31 pm

Piro can settle the Hell down. He punched Largo in the face. Sauce for the goose.

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Re: [1596] reference material

Post by Invisigoth » Wed Aug 11, 2021 6:26 pm

Largo knows Piro and knows just how he rolls. If Piro snaps and has to be subdued by Megumi as her first heroic act because Piro's been provoked that's on Largo and Erika :P

There's a reason why "skinny blonde kid that goes by the alias Piro" isn't allowed back into Canada. There are Mounties who had to take early retirement due to disabilities because of the "handcuffed by Mounties" incident

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Re: [1596] reference material

Post by Rapierman » Wed Aug 11, 2021 8:27 pm

S1arburst wrote:
Sun Aug 08, 2021 7:52 pm
Hm, just noticing that Largo's broken nose has healed amazingly quickly. In fact, in panel 3, he looks almost too pretty compared to how he's usually drawn.
Largo's definitely made of sterner stuff. 🤪😮🤔
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Re: [1596] reference material

Post by Zandra » Wed Aug 11, 2021 9:55 pm

Eraden wrote:
Wed Aug 11, 2021 3:22 pm
Zandra wrote:
Wed Aug 11, 2021 2:30 pm
To all who are thinking Largo is not doing this on purpose,does it really matter? the result is still the same. Erica knows this is highly upsetting to piro as in she can see his body language. maybe kimi zilla needs to put her in her place again. There is a saying in the law."ignorance is no excuse" So even if someone "accidentally" was killed it is still murder if the persons ignorance contributed to it.

I feel this is the tipping point for these two. Personally since the real largo is gone i think its time this one leaves as well.
Yes, it very much DOES matter. It defines in part, who Largo is. This is not all about Piro's "feels". If Largo is doing this to deliberately hurt Piro, then he's a callous cad. If he is doing it because he's (in his mind) merely discussing a "game guide", then he's just being "socially inept Largo". Your example is a bad one. The charge of murder is reserved for someone who's INTENT was to cause harm or death to another individual who as a result, has indeed died as a result of the first person's efforts. Otherwise it is merely manslaughter, a much lesser charge. Proving intent is extremely important in western courts of law. How a victim of bad behavior feels is important but by no means the sole defining factor in terms of assessing a bad encounter.
Murder is the killing of a person,accidentally or otherwise. medical examiners will almost always say HOMICIDE,AKA MURDER,even if it was a accident or justifiable. manslaughter is the accidental murder charge name. Plenty of people in jail who accidentally killed someone regardless of intent.
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Re: [1596] reference material

Post by Eraden » Thu Aug 12, 2021 12:00 am

Zandra wrote:
Wed Aug 11, 2021 9:55 pm
Eraden wrote:
Wed Aug 11, 2021 3:22 pm
Zandra wrote:
Wed Aug 11, 2021 2:30 pm
To all who are thinking Largo is not doing this on purpose,does it really matter? the result is still the same. Erica knows this is highly upsetting to piro as in she can see his body language. maybe kimi zilla needs to put her in her place again. There is a saying in the law."ignorance is no excuse" So even if someone "accidentally" was killed it is still murder if the persons ignorance contributed to it.

I feel this is the tipping point for these two. Personally since the real largo is gone i think its time this one leaves as well.
Yes, it very much DOES matter. It defines in part, who Largo is. This is not all about Piro's "feels". If Largo is doing this to deliberately hurt Piro, then he's a callous cad. If he is doing it because he's (in his mind) merely discussing a "game guide", then he's just being "socially inept Largo". Your example is a bad one. The charge of murder is reserved for someone who's INTENT was to cause harm or death to another individual who as a result, has indeed died as a result of the first person's efforts. Otherwise it is merely manslaughter, a much lesser charge. Proving intent is extremely important in western courts of law. How a victim of bad behavior feels is important but by no means the sole defining factor in terms of assessing a bad encounter.
Murder is the killing of a person,accidentally or otherwise. medical examiners will almost always say HOMICIDE,AKA MURDER,even if it was a accident or justifiable. manslaughter is the accidental murder charge name. Plenty of people in jail who accidentally killed someone regardless of intent.
In casual conversation, it is not uncommon for people to liberally use the word "murder" when describing a killing. Courts are usually VERY careful not to use the word "murder", however, in cases where the conviction is for "manslaughter". It is a lesser charge and conviction almost always results in a much lesser sentence than would be for an actual murder charge. Yes, in both cases, someone has died at the hands of another person. As I said before, however, INTENT is extremely important in these cases. Large parts of our western court systems are heavily focused on ascertaining intent. There is a reason for that. People are expected to take responsibility for their actions and the amount of responsibility (and therefore subsequent punishment if convicted), is somewhat directly related to how intentional that action was.

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