Re: [1506] Ninja vs Precociousness
Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:23 pm
Soooo angry with cidjen now... only Miho is lesser to me!
Relax, we understand j00!
https://forums.megatokyo.com/
Uhhh.... have we got a bunk in this prison cell here ? ;PTeddy-Werebear wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:23 pmSoooo angry with cidjen now... only Miho is lesser to me!
I think TWB has only forgotten the proper use of emojis :JHakuRyoku wrote: ↑Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:46 amOver what exactly there were-bear? All I see them doing is trying to make sense of the complex world that is Megatokyo and the characters therein, and instead of just being silent about any theory or idea some of us may, or may not, have or simply chiming in every so often with the 'oh pretty comic Fred' that many of us do now-a-days -myself included-, they let their fresh mind run wild with possibilities rather than sit at the status quo that is. I personally enjoy the fresh meat, while some of their thoughts seem a little outlandish at times, it is nice to see the forum with regular posts again.
I didn't claim to have an "idea" about the definition of "character analogue". On the contrary, I am saying the phrase has not even been used in the comic so far.Invisigoth wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:02 pmYou have no ideadarrin wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:28 pmExcept nobody in the comic so far has actually used the phrase "character analogue". (Ibara just refers to Miho as an "analogue", and the Inspector just says that the "subject" (obviously Miho) was removed from an "analogue support facility".)Invisigoth wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:51 pmCharacter Analogue is a sort of Newspeak term like "Collateral Damage" , "Enhanced Interrogation" or "Extraordinary Rendition"
It doesn't mean what you think that it means
So I am rather doubtful it means what you think it means either, not yet anyway.
I can't "think" because I have been told. And now I have to shut up
Although analogy is often a more direct sort of 'significant noticeable comparison', a more 'clear correspondence' (it's from Greek/Latin and French circa 1400s) and analogous is more perhaps 'somewhat comparable in certain respects' (it's from Greek/Latin circa 1600s). What exactly depends on the context as well; logic, medicine, biology, language, etc.cidjen wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:13 pmTo me it looks, like it's implied a lot (at least it looks like) that Miho is an Analogue* of something or somebody/character. (*that feels to me more like a word 'Analogy' should be actually used... subtle difference but still... ) The word by itself doesn't mean much anything, without knowing what she is an Analogue ('analogy') of. She seems to be an Analogue (analogy?) of at least one character, or of a characters' story.(That, or the term 'Analogue' has been redefined in the MT universe to mean a 'story/character analogy')
Ofc people who know what she is an Analogue of, can and do already shorten the term to just one word, because THEY know.Edit: or maybe another way to describe this, an analogue is an analogy impersonated?
Yep, Character Analogue is not in story comic anywhere I've ever seen it. A forum-invented term that seems too limited to describe what we've seen; casts of characters, worlds, stories, narratives. Whatever it is, it's not just a character or only her. But maybe right or wrong or in between, that's best described by how Ibara explains in story what he believes about what she is.
Okay then, let me enlighten youdarrin wrote: ↑Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:15 pmI didn't claim to have an "idea" about the definition of "character analogue". On the contrary, I am saying the phrase has not even been used in the comic so far.Invisigoth wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:02 pmYou have no ideadarrin wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:28 pm
Except nobody in the comic so far has actually used the phrase "character analogue". (Ibara just refers to Miho as an "analogue", and the Inspector just says that the "subject" (obviously Miho) was removed from an "analogue support facility".)
So I am rather doubtful it means what you think it means either, not yet anyway.
I can't "think" because I have been told. And now I have to shut up
EDIT:
I stand by what I said prior to the stealth-edit of my post. Anyone who wants to claim I'm "wrong" about the above is welcome to post an actual number of a strip in which the complete phrase "character analogue" occurs. Anything else is a non-sequitor.
That would be taking Ibara to be a reliable observer. He's been depicted as enough of a flake so far that I'm not yet anywhere near willing to assume that his words on the matter straightforwardly represent Fred's actual (current or longterm, to the extent those end up even being similar ) thoughts on this portion of the plot (whatever those might be).
I think I stated my latest thoughts on Miho lately - if not : I think, that Miho, pwnzing the long-distance relationship she had with Piro, actually thought she did it FOR him, saving him from a lifetime of atonement for a decision that may not have been his originally. He did not catch the idea and it left a hole in his life, or more like a black stain, black ink splat, masking whatever he might have felt before... black enough to look like a hole, whether you're near, or a little farther on. I'd be prepared to say, she still does love him, but through her n-th lifetime experience, she knows this wouldn't lead anywhere, and tries to bury that feeling as deep as she can. To me it looks, like there is a whole lot more to her (especially showing in the scene where she gets Kimiko to safety in the CoE after the cafe is blown up, asking about why she wants to give life to an almost dead girl; or before Kimiko takes the stage at the Animate event; In this latest chapter she only 'just' had surgery, had her place in the story taken by a 'stunt double' Kimiko, herself being ninja-edited, while something may or may not be about to happen. So much more still can happen in this chapter, the current state doesn't feel like we're anywhere near to any conclusions ... at least I hope so, because I like how it is progressingiffy wrote: ↑Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:37 pmFor those who haven't been reading SD for a long time, and haven't gone back and read the last few chapters worth of threads in the archive, some people in the discussion would be very happy if the terrible mean evil horrible wicked soul destroying Miho was violently sent back to whatever dimensional hells she arrived from.
Hey, I said (or I've implied that) I'm sorry already... Please accept my apology... again. Stating directly and publicly.Invisigoth wrote: ↑Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:45 pm
Okay then, let me enlighten you
Character Analogue is a term used during plot development discussions
So, oh hell no you ain't getting any proof!
You can go on being pedantic if you like BUT don't call names or level insults and don't presume to be taken seriously. The fact that at some point in the past few years that particular term escaped into the wild but will not be verified isn't relevant at all
Don't forget it's from perspective of a japanese parent of a teenage girl who just recently has been introduced to some wonder of 2000's technology that would allow him to work with the 'Analogues'. That would make him, hmm, about 50 or more? So born in 1950's Japan. Worked more in this time, than he ever was home, probably. Talks to his daughter but probably has no idea where she gets her money from. Also doesn't ask questions but 'Borrows' money from his daughter when he wants to go somewhere... Was there for the advent of 2000's technology. He saw it happening, from earliest hobbyist minicomputers to that newest wonder. No wonder he despises Ping so much (such a sad idea for an interface... frankly it's sad you exist at all). So his character here is a pretty sad one. But maybe it does make him real that way?darrin wrote: ↑Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:54 pmThat would be taking Ibara to be a reliable observer. He's been depicted as enough of a flake so far that I'm not yet anywhere near willing to assume that his words on the matter straightforwardly represent Fred's actual (current or longterm, to the extent those end up even being similar ) thoughts on this portion of the plot (whatever those might be).
Yes, sure, Fred could be doing the sneaky thing of having the flaky character actually saying something sensible/"true" for a change (presumably he does that with Largo now and then ); but even if one assumes that's what's going on, for my money he is still not really saying anything coherent, just kinda rambling. "Blah blah real blah blah REALLY real blah blah feelings." I could be convinced this is someone who might potentially have something important to say about analogues, but has at this point in time tossed back enough that, while his speech isn't exactly slurred yet, is still pretty babbly. If that were the "best" description of an analogue we were going to get then I would probably not be too enthusiastic.
Yay for the comic in progresspaarfi wrote: ↑Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:58 pmFolks, we're all friends here. And I'm sure we've all been on the interwebs long enough to know how easy it is to mistake people's tone when all you see is text. Keep it civil please, and try to give people the benefit of the doubt. And if you're sure they're being a jerk, then please take the high road and don't add to it.
Fred has the next comic pretty much drawn. He still needs to shade, assemble, clean, and dialogue, but hopefully that'll happen in the next day or two.
I don't believe I've "forgotten" any of what you say, I just don't see how any of it should increase my willingness to accept him (yet, and especially in the context iffy was citing) as a reliable/believable observer (esp. on the subject of "analogues" whatever the heck they might be).
Saa... This came out more patronising on my part than I meant to, sorry about that...darrin wrote: ↑Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:37 pmI don't believe I've "forgotten" any of what you say, I just don't see how any of it should increase my willingness to accept him (yet, and especially in the context iffy was citing) as a reliable/believable observer (esp. on the subject of "analogues" whatever the heck they might be).
That is dirty pool, young man... let us not revive ol forum outlandish innuendo and prevarications about this bear in fanworks.i'm just gonna have to think of some place to insert TeddyWereBear in a bad place on my fanfic
Yo, Bear, focus. This is me, I am here. Haku ain't have nothing to do with this. Leave 'im alone.Teddy-Werebear wrote: ↑Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:22 amMMMMMMM mmmm! Fresh meat! (Why is there no licking my chops yummy smilie?)
Glad cidjen groked the joke I implied... why you not figure it out Haku?
Everything is acceptable in a flame-warThat is dirty pool, young man... let us not revive ol forum outlandish innuendo and prevarications about this bear in fanworks.i'm just gonna have to think of some place to insert TeddyWereBear in a bad place on my fanfic
Oh I didn't think it was patronising, was just trying to keep it short. Probably I'm not being clear here... granted it's debatable where on the spectrum (of "reliability" in some sense) he lies: on the one hand yeah, he's been in the industry for so many decades as you say, on the other he's a barfly daughter-moocher who tries to pass off an obvious demotion (1159, basically "they are gonna make me do the job I was supposed to hire somebody else to do") as a cool thing.cidjen wrote: ↑Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:22 amSaa... This came out more patronising on my part than I meant to, sorry about that...
I do this in rl too and it ticks people off.
Of course what you write may be true... Ibara senior is just a caustic industry insider of whom no one ever heard, even though he spent probably half his life on the role. Of course that doesn't make him a reliable source either. But he may be just as good as any.
Heh. Tangent stops by the Fred's Twitch streams sometimes, but he hasn't been around the forums lately. Hopefully he comes back some day.
Not me. Nobody in MT is anywhere near anything reliable! But unreliable doesn't necessarily mean totally unbelievable or unable to be correct or fully without any merit.
No matter how slimy and horrible as a person and father he is, Ibara is a game company rep, who seems to know some fair amount of details, and isn't all angry or vengeful or dismissive about Miho. Sure, maybe he was told nothing but untruths, but he seems to be correct that the audience glomps onto how the story makes them feel and doesn't care about facts. The sort of thing that apparently doesn't even get rid of your fans if you tell them the truth, tell them off, insult them, and then quit like Erika did.If that were the "best" description of an analogue we were going to get then I would probably not be too enthusiastic.
Yes, but I meant there are people on the forum who really really hate Miho, and that's about the extent of how much else is considered. As might be said, the details are unimportant, only the feelings matter. If somebody doesn't know that Miho-despising forum-goer feels that way, and doesn't care about anything else, because it's not been explained recently, the reader may reach the wrong conclusions about posts covering such subjects but without them knowing the background or details. Which can be important even if it doesn't make them feel anything.
No I mean "reliable/unreliable observer" in the technical sense, are we getting useful information out of him here (is the author using the character to convey things the author actually thinks, or on the contrary using him more for red herrings)? Again, after reading 1240 and its neighbors, what exactly do we know about "analogues" (actual concrete stuff, not fluff like "her character became far more real than she ever was")? Can we actually add anything specific to the lists of things "analogues" are or aren't, or can or can't do? Anything to distinguish what he's saying from tipsy rambling?