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[1526] That kind of love

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Re: [1526] That kind of love

Post by Roamer » Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:51 am

...I suspect she would object to the 'something' portion of the description, but I think that was hilarious.

What Miho did with the Killballs, it's starting to feel like it was a forced move by the metaplot to reset her consciousness back to defaults, as she was starting to show signs of personality shift. Suckering Ed may have been the excuse the story used to trick Miho into accepting the reset. Or maybe it was a deliberate move on her part, to isolate herself so she could continue to become less the slave of the story.

I think we can assume she was supposed to return eventually, but at the time and place of her choosing. And I don't get the vibe that Miho wanted to go to the CoE, not being drug by Yuki, and with no time to prepare. That's actual panic we see from her after they land. Remember, except for the inner circle of the CoE and the other non-mundanes in the city, everyone else is at least potentially a zombie who wants her dead. I would be terrified or going anywhere without being in control of the situation in those circumstances. And she's sure not going to trust a baby MG with no clue what she can do, or how this city works.

===

The story itself appears to be evolving, as well. We're seeing the stories shift to newer, younger characters, with fresh perspectives. It seems as though almost everyone in the story needs growth of some type, and Fred wants to be able to bring fresh perspectives to bear. That, or he's sick of writing about Piro, who seems to be aiming for the award for first webcomic character ever to do character growth in geologic time. I know Fred made him that way, but it's got to be frustrating. The magical abilities - most of the abilities - may be wish fulfillment on one level. Wait, does that mean that the key to Miho's freedom is moving past the need for them? Even if it's true, that's a terrifying gamble to take. I have the weirdest ideas while I'm writing these...which is one reason why I like them. I yank ideas out of hidden and shadowed crevasses in my own head while I write.

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Re: [1526] That kind of love

Post by iffy » Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:31 pm

Roamer wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:51 am
... a forced move by the metaplot to reset her consciousness back to defaults .... Or maybe it was a deliberate move on her part, to isolate herself so she could continue to become less the slave of the story.
So many things it could be, with no apparent way to tell. It's not just the lack of information or the conflicting or vague things that are suspected, it's what she's supposed to be, and the framework it's all in.
I think we can assume she was supposed to return eventually, but at the time and place of her choosing. And I don't get the vibe that Miho wanted to go to the CoE, not being drug by Yuki, and with no time to prepare. That's actual panic we see from her after they land.
If she's the real thing to the extent most everything she does, no matter how planned or contrived, seems real, even to her own deep emotional reactions.... The greatest actor in history, that is themselves the source of stories, or can at least rewrite or control what story shows up. Even if she doesn't know the steps along the way, or where they end up at out of all the potential places to arrive, goes with it as if it was always meant to be. She doesn't become the role, she actually is it, to the point where no observer can tell one way or the other. Where even if they think it's fake, that's what it's supposed to look like, but then they get pulled into the narrative and can no longer see inside the plot because they're part of it too. And so on. We have our own additional issue as well, that logically we know where one set of answers is from, but not what they actually are, until we see what of it has been provided to us. It's that box, one person opens it and sees a cat, but when another looks it's an elephant, and another sees nothing there. Close the box, open it again, and it's something else, or it turns out there wasn't actually a box to start with.
Remember, except for the inner circle of the CoE and the other non-mundanes in the city, everyone else is at least potentially a zombie who wants her dead.
That doesn't seem the case though, most nobody knows who she is, and a large number want to... See her? Talk to her? Perhaps that is dangerous, but it's only those drawn mystically out of nowhere when the story doesn't flow correctly. Their physical selves don't remember anything after, perhaps aren't even actually there. Although I still have some suspicion that all at the school, with The Horde and what they did, was still part of the demonstration that apparently started in 1309. That perhaps normally such things don't happen (incongruities or continuity errors fix themselves, or she/the story guides things back, whatever it is) and this was only allowed to get to that point for the purposes of the demonstration. All along the way to whatever was going to happen by the time the demonstration is/was over. Perhaps at some point something went wrong, maybe things are still on track, who knows. Has she changed? From/to what, how, why, and when? It's difficult to figure out what somebody is thinking when there's only parts of it and even that lacks an answer.
I would be terrified or going anywhere without being in control of the situation in those circumstances. And she's sure not going to trust a baby MG with no clue what she can do, or how this city works.
If you yourself had set up the situation so you could see what happened, or didn't care about which outcome or how it got there, or were setting up certain demise for yourself but were either not destroyable or had plenty of respawns, you might not care. Simply wanting to see how it might go. We could perhaps say Miho might be far more manipulative than most anyone even thought she was, regardless of how that manipulation falls on one of the sides of morality from the ways we get to look at it. Although certainly it's also possible she has no power or control now, and maybe never did.
Wait, does that mean that the key to Miho's freedom is moving past the need for them?
Unless this isn't about her to begin with, and that's just more notion and illusion. But we'd kind of have to know what she is or wants first, and we pretty much don't at all know either. Maybe the way to put that is we can't be sure we can take anything she seems to say or do for granted. The bits and pieces not fitting together well, without a method of verifying what we think we can see. Even if apparently that thing is supported by another set of information, since often that information appears to be opinions, and that were gathered from information provided by or about her. If all roads lead back to the same unreliable (and even purposely misleading) place, then what. Doesn't make anything not true, but doesn't prove everything isn't false.

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Re: [1526] That kind of love

Post by cidjen » Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:27 am

Roamer wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:19 am

I don't think that men get any active abilities if they have the MG genes, but some passive abilities would be useful - enhanced sense and danger sense both seem likely here. Regeneration would clearly be really useful, not combat regen, but simply enhanced healing and the ability to heal beyond what most people can manage. Looking at the kid's midsection after a day of being drug around by Yuki at mach 2, liver and kidney damage seem pretty likely.
True, and previously it took him just what, one day to heal from a few broken ribs (when Yuki fell on him off the wires) ? that's insane in human world.

(OTOH Largo also had a broken leg (from jumping out of the school window) and recovered from it mighty fast.)

(Unless ... we don't get the view of all the action going on, just a slice of life - yes one chapter = one day, but no info about how much time passed between days every time - only known inter-day interval was 'the 9 days' when Miho was missing. But what if such was the case in between other chapters ? (with exception of 7+8, they clearly happen immediately after each other.) But e.g. 8 to 9, there is unspecified time gap here, definitely. Yeah I suppose someone wrote something like this up before, but it seems like this to me anyway.)
And boosts to stats would be highly useful (Yuuji's ability to dodge a room-covering firefighting foam gun)
aww man, you made me go back to that comic now [1198] :) geez I never noticed that :)
...
About Sonada's MG detector - I always figured it was turned off because it went off every time his daughter came into range. Unlike Meimi, Yuki is much too powerful to be missed by a detector; Meimi may have been 'more skilled than sparkly' (Ririka) but Yuki is well into the red zone power wise - 7.3 on emergence, on probably a 10 point scale. Powerful enough that Masamichi was classing her as 'potentially catastrophic grade'. Eek.
No, but the exact phrase from Sonoda's colleague is 'Because yours is always going off, sir?' [1107] That IMO implies it goes off really 'all the time'. Not just when Yuki or Meimi is around. Maybe Meimi's and Yuki's sparklogens rub off on Masamichi, and amplify even small amounts of magic detected ... aka, magic is contagious :) Or the device's detectors went bonkers from being kept in vicinity of such strong sources when he's home.

If Masamichi has any powers, they should be focused around not being driven nuts when around the weirdness loci that is a house with two magical girls. Seriously, the way these girls bend probability and physics, there's got to be some strangeness going on more often than not. Consider - how many households, even in Megatokyo, actually have an area-affect firefighting foam gun?
Haha true, i suppose what Yuki actually does is bend and stretch time to her will, conscious or not :) adding longer-lasting loops of time between the fixed points of entry and return. For her and for what she's touching, the time and physics behave the same, what we see is fast movement without physical effects of it (sonic booms anyone?), but normal humans are just too complex to withstand this (poor Yutaka)
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[in my first fanfic I actually make some fun off that]
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Re: [1526] That kind of love

Post by iffy » Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:30 pm

Mostly everyone in MT seems to display a bit of accelerated everything, including healing.

As far as the alarm, it seemed it was implied the Fluke PMGD-540 was "always" going off, as in, "too frequently" and "for no reason". Where nobody wanted to listen to the often there alarm sound from nothing apparent. Which if Meimi, Yuki, or both (plus at times the many MG and used to be MG friends of Meimi) are often around would be a reason for the alarm but not a link. At least not given the perceptions of those working often or closely with Masamichi. If those perceptions are the usual sort we've seen, then of course his wife and her friends and their daughter couldn't possibly be doing anything even near causing that alarm to go off.

Sure the guy may literally have meant every time Masamichi was around, no matter if he was alone, his alarm was constantly sounding all of the time. Yet that seems unlikely, unless Masamichi is an MG and powerful enough to set off the alarm. Or the unit is broken. Which it doesn't seem broken in 1107:8, and every indication is he isn't either a girl or magical.

Which suggests figurative and giving us the notion that perhaps Yuki has been triggering the alarm for a long while (or that Meimi is more powerful than some believe, or some mix of the two with some of her friends tossed in for good measure). Since this is about Yuki, and Meimi isn't around for this situation, and as we find out Yuki is that powerful. Not just later with what she does showing it, but as soon as 1108. The conclusion appears pretty straightforward. Perhaps even to the point of it also being true.

It could still be Masamichi yes, not by himself, but due to the others contaminating him. We can imagine that if Yuki was 1,000,000 on the scale, and Meimi 10,000 (or whatever values and ratios we want to make up) anyone who spent more than 10 minutes a year near them would cause the meter to react, and being around either one or both at home on a regular basis, the father/husband could indeed potentially appear by second-hand sparklogen 73% or whatever it is (whatever that means on some logarithmic scale or relative strength or whatever it's supposed to be) and trigger an alarm. Although given the magnitude of the zilla yoink that happens next, it might be more likely Yuki is simply powerful enough to make the meter read {073} from dozens of feet away. (whatever that 073 reflects being unimportant to the graph on the meter being lit near the top; it goes [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 group-of-five] with the light in 6, be that on a min/max scale, danger level, number from 000 to 999 (put a decimal where you'd like maybe) or if the meter is set to its highest level versus its lowest or if it doesn't scale, or if sparklogens are decisparks or attosparks) but how about those with power levels in kilosparks, like driving a car 8,424,391,193 with a speedometer that only goes to 200

Whatever it means or is reading, they think it tells them there's a level 7 MG around.


What I've always thought was rather interesting perceptually and in the perceptional is the dialog there between Largo and Masamichi:

What is she doing?
What's who doing?
T3h Magical Grrl.
The WHAT??

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Re: [1526] That kind of love

Post by Roamer » Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:01 am

iffy wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:31 pm
So many things it could be, with no apparent way to tell. It's not just the lack of information or the conflicting or vague things that are suspected, it's what she's supposed to be, and the framework it's all in.
And just maybe the framework itself has shifted while the story has been going on. Who's to say that MegaTokyo itself hasn't been subverted - possibly for good and not ill - or has grown beyond the intent of it's creators? MT the comic has become more than it was originally intended, and for the better.
If she's the real thing to the extent most everything she does, no matter how planned or contrived, seems real, even to her own deep emotional reactions.... The greatest actor in history, that is themselves the source of stories, or can at least rewrite or control what story shows up. Even if she doesn't know the steps along the way, or where they end up at out of all the potential places to arrive, goes with it as if it was always meant to be. She doesn't become the role, she actually is it, to the point where no observer can tell one way or the other. Where even if they think it's fake, that's what it's supposed to look like, but then they get pulled into the narrative and can no longer see inside the plot because they're part of it too. And so on. We have our own additional issue as well, that logically we know where one set of answers is from, but not what they actually are, until we see what of it has been provided to us. It's that box, one person opens it and sees a cat, but when another looks it's an elephant, and another sees nothing there. Close the box, open it again, and it's something else, or it turns out there wasn't actually a box to start with.
If you play a role constantly, without relief, at some point you become the role you play. It consumes you. This also can be used for good or ill. Many of the famous men of history consciously chose avatars or historical figures to use as exemplars for them to follow, to constantly compare themselves against. The famous generals and conquerors of ancient Rome and Greece visited the tomb of Alexander, to contemplate their lives in comparison to his and to drive themselves to achieve more.
That doesn't seem the case though, most nobody knows who she is, and a large number want to... See her? Talk to her? Perhaps that is dangerous, but it's only those drawn mystically out of nowhere when the story doesn't flow correctly. Their physical selves don't remember anything after, perhaps aren't even actually there. Although I still have some suspicion that all at the school, with The Horde and what they did, was still part of the demonstration that apparently started in 1309. That perhaps normally such things don't happen (incongruities or continuity errors fix themselves, or she/the story guides things back, whatever it is) and this was only allowed to get to that point for the purposes of the demonstration. All along the way to whatever was going to happen by the time the demonstration is/was over. Perhaps at some point something went wrong, maybe things are still on track, who knows. Has she changed? From/to what, how, why, and when? It's difficult to figure out what somebody is thinking when there's only parts of it and even that lacks an answer.
Unsure. We see people shift from normal teen student to zombie, but we can't know what other influences are affecting them. It seems calm enough, but there's no way to be sure. As to the question of change....she is literally the tree falling in the forest, with no one to see or hear. She has existed for so long, and outlived so many, that does change matter? She is now what we see here. Her past was written with no one to record it. For purposes of the story, what she is here is all there ever was.
If you yourself had set up the situation so you could see what happened, or didn't care about which outcome or how it got there, or were setting up certain demise for yourself but were either not destroyable or had plenty of respawns, you might not care. Simply wanting to see how it might go. We could perhaps say Miho might be far more manipulative than most anyone even thought she was, regardless of how that manipulation falls on one of the sides of morality from the ways we get to look at it. Although certainly it's also possible she has no power or control now, and maybe never did.
I can't imagine any reason why should would bother going along with Yuki's kidnapping of her if she could avoid it. I just don't see what being publicly exposed like this gains her. Also, given how mortified she looks when she finds out that Yuki's been peeking at the chat logs, if she'd had any power she would have done something.
Unless this isn't about her to begin with, and that's just more notion and illusion. But we'd kind of have to know what she is or wants first, and we pretty much don't at all know either. Maybe the way to put that is we can't be sure we can take anything she seems to say or do for granted. The bits and pieces not fitting together well, without a method of verifying what we think we can see. Even if apparently that thing is supported by another set of information, since often that information appears to be opinions, and that were gathered from information provided by or about her. If all roads lead back to the same unreliable (and even purposely misleading) place, then what. Doesn't make anything not true, but doesn't prove everything isn't false.
Maybe. I freely admit that was a pretty random thought, so really, who knows? One of the things I like about Miho is she's the biggest mystery in MT.

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Re: [1526] That kind of love

Post by Roamer » Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:32 am

cidjen wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:27 am
Roamer wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:19 am

I don't think that men get any active abilities if they have the MG genes, but some passive abilities would be useful - enhanced sense and danger sense both seem likely here. Regeneration would clearly be really useful, not combat regen, but simply enhanced healing and the ability to heal beyond what most people can manage. Looking at the kid's midsection after a day of being drug around by Yuki at mach 2, liver and kidney damage seem pretty likely.
1. True, and previously it took him just what, one day to heal from a few broken ribs (when Yuki fell on him off the wires) ? that's insane in human world.

(OTOH Largo also had a broken leg (from jumping out of the school window) and recovered from it mighty fast.)

(Unless ... we don't get the view of all the action going on, just a slice of life - yes one chapter = one day, but no info about how much time passed between days every time - only known inter-day interval was 'the 9 days' when Miho was missing. But what if such was the case in between other chapters ? (with exception of 7+8, they clearly happen immediately after each other.) But e.g. 8 to 9, there is unspecified time gap here, definitely. Yeah I suppose someone wrote something like this up before, but it seems like this to me anyway.)
And boosts to stats would be highly useful (Yuuji's ability to dodge a room-covering firefighting foam gun)
2. aww man, you made me go back to that comic now [1198] :) geez I never noticed that :)
...
About Sonada's MG detector - I always figured it was turned off because it went off every time his daughter came into range. Unlike Meimi, Yuki is much too powerful to be missed by a detector; Meimi may have been 'more skilled than sparkly' (Ririka) but Yuki is well into the red zone power wise - 7.3 on emergence, on probably a 10 point scale. Powerful enough that Masamichi was classing her as 'potentially catastrophic grade'. Eek.
3. No, but the exact phrase from Sonoda's colleague is 'Because yours is always going off, sir?' [1107] That IMO implies it goes off really 'all the time'. Not just when Yuki or Meimi is around. Maybe Meimi's and Yuki's sparklogens rub off on Masamichi, and amplify even small amounts of magic detected ... aka, magic is contagious :) Or the device's detectors went bonkers from being kept in vicinity of such strong sources when he's home.

If Masamichi has any powers, they should be focused around not being driven nuts when around the weirdness loci that is a house with two magical girls. Seriously, the way these girls bend probability and physics, there's got to be some strangeness going on more often than not. Consider - how many households, even in Megatokyo, actually have an area-affect firefighting foam gun?
4. Haha true, i suppose what Yuki actually does is bend and stretch time to her will, conscious or not :) adding longer-lasting loops of time between the fixed points of entry and return. For her and for what she's touching, the time and physics behave the same, what we see is fast movement without physical effects of it (sonic booms anyone?), but normal humans are just too complex to withstand this (poor Yutaka)
SpoilerShow
[in my first fanfic I actually make some fun off that]
1. In the original chapters, there was a clear delineation of time passed. Later ones, not so much. I don't think the ribs were actually broken, just cracked. Had they been broken, just the movement in the baths would have been enough to cause internal injuries. When you are moved with a broken rib, it punctures things.

2. I didn't spot it until I reread it. I mean, he's the furthest from the epicenter, but even so, he's totally untouched. That's either amazing dexterity, speed, or luck. Mabye some of all of those.

3. I always figured the other guy was exaggerating, but the idea that the MG effects can be picked up is interesting...and a little ominous. What it most resembles is radiation exposure, and the MG detector sure looks like a portable radiation detector. I like your version better though, it's more fun.

4. Great explanation, and it covers all the bases. The power requirement, though...

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Re: [1526] That kind of love

Post by Invisigoth » Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:01 am

The short answer is that MegaTokyo is a simulation. Physics there is game physics so if Largo heals faster than he should have or tiny paper foxes dance it's all in the rules.

The core reality is unMod where the comparatively light hearted antics of MT are a break from reality

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Re: [1526] That kind of love

Post by cidjen » Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:18 am

Roamer wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:32 am
cidjen wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:27 am
Roamer wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:19 am

I don't think that men get any active abilities if they have the MG genes, but some passive abilities would be useful - enhanced sense and danger sense both seem likely here. Regeneration would clearly be really useful, not combat regen, but simply enhanced healing and the ability to heal beyond what most people can manage. Looking at the kid's midsection after a day of being drug around by Yuki at mach 2, liver and kidney damage seem pretty likely.
1. True, and previously it took him just what, one day to heal from a few broken ribs (when Yuki fell on him off the wires) ? that's insane in human world.

(OTOH Largo also had a broken leg (from jumping out of the school window) and recovered from it mighty fast.)

(Unless ... we don't get the view of all the action going on, just a slice of life - yes one chapter = one day, but no info about how much time passed between days every time - only known inter-day interval was 'the 9 days' when Miho was missing. But what if such was the case in between other chapters ? (with exception of 7+8, they clearly happen immediately after each other.) But e.g. 8 to 9, there is unspecified time gap here, definitely. Yeah I suppose someone wrote something like this up before, but it seems like this to me anyway.)
And boosts to stats would be highly useful (Yuuji's ability to dodge a room-covering firefighting foam gun)
2. aww man, you made me go back to that comic now [1198] :) geez I never noticed that :)
...
About Sonada's MG detector - I always figured it was turned off because it went off every time his daughter came into range. Unlike Meimi, Yuki is much too powerful to be missed by a detector; Meimi may have been 'more skilled than sparkly' (Ririka) but Yuki is well into the red zone power wise - 7.3 on emergence, on probably a 10 point scale. Powerful enough that Masamichi was classing her as 'potentially catastrophic grade'. Eek.
3. No, but the exact phrase from Sonoda's colleague is 'Because yours is always going off, sir?' [1107] That IMO implies it goes off really 'all the time'. Not just when Yuki or Meimi is around. Maybe Meimi's and Yuki's sparklogens rub off on Masamichi, and amplify even small amounts of magic detected ... aka, magic is contagious :) Or the device's detectors went bonkers from being kept in vicinity of such strong sources when he's home.

If Masamichi has any powers, they should be focused around not being driven nuts when around the weirdness loci that is a house with two magical girls. Seriously, the way these girls bend probability and physics, there's got to be some strangeness going on more often than not. Consider - how many households, even in Megatokyo, actually have an area-affect firefighting foam gun?
4. Haha true, i suppose what Yuki actually does is bend and stretch time to her will, conscious or not :) adding longer-lasting loops of time between the fixed points of entry and return. For her and for what she's touching, the time and physics behave the same, what we see is fast movement without physical effects of it (sonic booms anyone?), but normal humans are just too complex to withstand this (poor Yutaka)
SpoilerShow
[in my first fanfic I actually make some fun off that]
1. In the original chapters, there was a clear delineation of time passed. Later ones, not so much. I don't think the ribs were actually broken, just cracked. Had they been broken, just the movement in the baths would have been enough to cause internal injuries. When you are moved with a broken rib, it punctures things.

2. I didn't spot it until I reread it. I mean, he's the furthest from the epicenter, but even so, he's totally untouched. That's either amazing dexterity, speed, or luck. Mabye some of all of those.

3. I always figured the other guy was exaggerating, but the idea that the MG effects can be picked up is interesting...and a little ominous. What it most resembles is radiation exposure, and the MG detector sure looks like a portable radiation detector. I like your version better though, it's more fun.

4. Great explanation, and it covers all the bases. The power requirement, though...
1. Yutaka was mighty bruised there though, unless the internal injuries he had were not just ribs. well... plenty of soft organs there. Never mind. You're right (I never had any bones broken there [or in fact anywhere] so i take your word for it :) )

2. Or, he's a ghost :D.

3. thanks :) well for one thing, I can't shake the feeling that the sparklogens are like... well.. viruses or bacteria, made of magical matter. so they would be 'contagious'. Of course they could be like radiation (alpha/beta/gamma/magic radiation/rays?) - after all, e.g. after radiotherapy patients become slightly radioactive temporarily. So it could be that sort of thing. But I like the 'magic viruses/ bacteria' explanation better :)

4. yeah well, that, or (in a 'inclusive OR' sense) what @Invisigoth says (and I've been also subscribing and honing that theory :) ).
Translation to polish
(Scanlations have now been deleted)

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Re: [1526] That kind of love

Post by iffy » Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:22 am

Roamer wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:01 am
I can't imagine any reason why should would bother going along with Yuki's kidnapping of her if she could avoid it.
Just because we can't think of one reason, doesn't mean she can't think of many. Or she doesn't need to, she knows them or they just are. Maybe Miho just couldn't avoid doing whatever she did, or stop Yuki from doing whatever she was going to do.
Perception, context, viewpoint.
If Miho, or the story, or the situation, or the powers, had set up the situations leading to results, both the one that happened and others that didn't. Or if things were just on their own headed towards one of a few ways to get {out of the ASF, back into the stories, to the CoE}. Then either way, one method might be as good as any other. We seem to know of two potentially headed that way, Yuki and Piro, which all appears to trace back to Miho's influences on both Junko and Ping, and stem from information Miho gave to Piro that was on a computer Yuki knew would be useful. Although (assigning some will to plot as we often do) maybe Piro was not a target exactly, was only meant to get to the ASF later and not find Miho, not be at the CoE, get arrested, and only return home for the situation of the next day. It could also be that Piro has something like protagonist powers, or otherwise is doing things outside of story that he's not supposed to, and is throwing some things off.
Again about perception, at the ASF. Got the impression Miho was often during the conversation working to get Yuki upset. Didn't get the impression Miho didn't know many people were already waiting for her to arrive at the CoE. Which doesn't mean she knew any of that or that she wanted it to happen. Still, it could be that she knew it and it was what she needed, yet we can't be sure what she knew and was thinking about. While Piro would understand the words and Yuki wouldn't, it's not certain if the spectacle was deliberate or the perturbation unfeigned.
Perhaps this is something like what we saw when she seems to have no problem leaving Erika/Largo and Kimiko/Piro, going through the gaps all philosophical, greeting the zombie rangers she got the rampage permit non-extended for, and waving goodbye at the psychopathic game company executioner who is supposed to be killing her. Regardless if she does a reprise of subsecond moving out of a diner or gets blasted into subatomic particles, she seems to be very purposely and even nonchalantly going to it.
Which is just more of how some person thinks of it. So, while we might feel being yoinked by a Magical Girl from an Analogue Support Facility to a bunch of zoned out fans/adherents/sycophants/worshipers/horde who are waiting at a club/her shrine is something to avoid, doesn't mean she does. Not easy to well consider, having no real frame of reference. We mostly only have things that we rightly or wrongly compare as equivalent to how she might see them. There's always the potential she doesn't feel that way about them at all. Or if she does feel so, that it's the honest truth.
I just don't see what being publicly exposed like this gains her.
Apparently it was foretold, then apparently events conspired to make it happen. Yet maybe for her it does gain nothing directly at the time, or ever. Being ripped from her alternate reality (hiding, waiting or recovery place; whatever Kenji was "explaining" to Yuki) to make a splashy notorious uncomfortable return did result in some progress, if that's gain for somebody else, or even her, who's to say. But it took Ed and Ibara out of the picture, the grieving horde got their god back, Erika and Largo were able to perform a grand rescue, Kimiko got a show and some understanding. Miho herself received a clear path to show up at the apartment and the angry situation to shove at Piro, perhaps as a start to the demonstration. It also lead to Yuki/Yutaka getting quite involved, Dom being neutralized, and eventually drawing in the Kitsune. All towards some end we're not at yet. If there's some psychic feeding going on perhaps it was even at the start a gain for Miho, regardless if at the time it appeared to be, or even was, a no thing or a bad thing.
Although certainly some other sequence of events might have arrived at the same place, which if it had we might be discussing why it didn't happen this current way, or some other way, instead.
Also, given how mortified she looks when she finds out that Yuki's been peeking at the chat logs, if she'd had any power she would have done something.
That goes back to the always appearing/being real no matter what. But in a more practical out here sort of sense, the way to not seem inconsistent is to always stay in character, which is easier if you've become the character even in the way you think and act. Or even more, it is no character, it's actually what you are, even to the extent of being a many decades old force of nature and mystical source of stories.
So at the CoE, you're mortified, you have no power to do anything. The situation spirals out of control and you have no way to slow it, much less halt it. How could anyone want that! At least if we think of how we might have felt, or imagined having the power to impact the situation.
But if Miho can't go to the CoE in a situation she herself created? Being overt would result in something worse than a grieving horde to be dropped into, if the action creates a nonsequitur that brings The Horde. (Assuming that is how it works and is actually as bad as what it seemed to be at the school.) So she gets the MG to take her, there was that path, no gaps required this time, it flows. Seems similar to what seemed to happen at the bath house, the subject is talked around and around, the ideas Piro has no no no, Miho can't directly suggest anything much, it goes on, with insults about how unhelpful the MG is tossed in. Until the MG verbalizes the idea the Analogue knows but can't say; call somebody from the CoE to rescue the damaged lad. And lo and behold the answer was Mugi, who also is at least semi-TheHorde immune, and plays in Endgames, and knows Piro sort of and Miho really well, part of a Kitsune clan that is well-connected into various aspects of MT. Nobody even notices it happens until later, and only those not in the story can have some perspective to notice. Like Miho ditches Junko in the past, and then Ping, who has lots of candid photos and videos of the 'real Miho' meets up with Junko, who wants payback, and doesn't even realize Ping isn't exactly just some girl who has school-inappropriate hair, and like so many others, gets absorbed into the stories that they didn't know existed and even if they were aware of them now couldn't see them because they're inside.
Rather difficult to contemplate how the living embodiment of the story might operate, much less actually feel about certain things. Regardless of outer appearances, which we also have seen and been told we can't exactly trust.

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Re: [1526] That kind of love

Post by Roamer » Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:17 am

cidjen wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:18 am

1. Yutaka was mighty bruised there though, unless the internal injuries he had were not just ribs. well... plenty of soft organs there. Never mind. You're right (I never had any bones broken there [or in fact anywhere] so i take your word for it :) )

2. Or, he's a ghost :D.

3. thanks :) well for one thing, I can't shake the feeling that the sparklogens are like... well.. viruses or bacteria, made of magical matter. so they would be 'contagious'. Of course they could be like radiation (alpha/beta/gamma/magic radiation/rays?) - after all, e.g. after radiotherapy patients become slightly radioactive temporarily. So it could be that sort of thing. But I like the 'magic viruses/ bacteria' explanation better :)

4. yeah well, that, or (in a 'inclusive OR' sense) what @Invisigoth says (and I've been also subscribing and honing that theory :) ).
1. Well, the other reason I think they were just cracked is if you actually break a bone and then the pieces grind together - like when you're moved at any speed above a crawl - you don't groan. You scream. It's impossible to explain how shocking the pain is when it happens.

2. lol, well, that would explain it as well. And he could have used it to explain to Erika how their talk in his bedroom was even stranger than they thought...

3. Based on what little we know about how the MGs work, it could be either one. The radiation makes more sense because it wears off, and Masamichi doesn't seem to be developing any powers - of course, he's been married to a MG and raising another one for probably fifteen years now, so maybe it's made him harder to kill - danger sense, maybe? Either way, the sparklogens theory is still more fun than radiation, even if it does come with long term exposure powers.

4. Also a real possibility. Dunno yet, still undecided.

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Re: [1526] That kind of love

Post by Roamer » Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:28 am

iffy wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:22 am
... Regardless of outer appearances, which we also have seen and been told we can't exactly trust.
That. That, right there. We're trying to extrapolate why she's doing things here (and I can't believe that Teddy hasn't weighed in here yet) but all we have to go on are her reactions, the reactions of those around her, and the explanations we get. But we know that the reactions of most others are heavily affected by Miho herself, and the explanations are inconsistent. The only thing that leaves us with are her actions and any other clues Fred leaves us, and - stepping to the meta level for a minute - I can't believe he would give us nothing to determine what is actually going on. If everything we see in a comic is contrived and isn't even consistent, what's the point?

It's using metalogic, which I dislike, but it's all we have, and it's why I choose to believe that the reactions we get from her are genuine. Besides, it seems to be more likely that the story chose to use Yuki to bring Miho out of hiding to get her story restarted - either to try and force her back into her role, or to see if she could still be used as an analogue, or simply to try and destroy her. (I'm assuming a hospital/safe zone for her would have some truly awesome defenses).

Dunno. I'm perfectly willing to admit I could be totally wrong here, but it seems to me it makes more sense as a story if done this way.

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Re: [1526] That kind of love

Post by Invisigoth » Sat Jun 16, 2018 9:45 pm

It's really quite simple

Some readers HATE Miho

Not all are as obnoxiously pig-headed about it as TWB, quite a few seem to be that way as a result of an apparent sincere desire that Largo be the only character in MT who never lies and also does the right thing

It's Animal Farm expressed as Miho BAAAAD...Largo GOOOOOOD

There must be Two Minute Hate in every MDT for strips in which Miho appears with Miho holding the same status as Goldstein

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Re: [1526] That kind of love

Post by Roamer » Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:36 am

Invisigoth wrote:
Sat Jun 16, 2018 9:45 pm
It's really quite simple

Some readers HATE Miho

Not all are as obnoxiously pig-headed about it as TWB, quite a few seem to be that way as a result of an apparent sincere desire that Largo be the only character in MT who never lies and also does the right thing

It's Animal Farm expressed as Miho BAAAAD...Largo GOOOOOOD

There must be Two Minute Hate in every MDT for strips in which Miho appears with Miho holding the same status as Goldstein
Tsk. The fun here is in explaining everything with internal consistency or metalogic, without consideration of the external world. Certainly without considering the fans as factors in the actions that occur within the boundaries of the comic. And while Teddy is certainly single-minded in his views, he's never overly strident or truly obnoxious about it. Express dislike? Sure. Spend 1K words detailing how she's the antichrist? Nope. I can appreciate brevity, although I rarely achieve it.

And I'm still pulling for Full Megatokyo Panic over UnMod. UnM is just depressing.

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Re: [1526] That kind of love

Post by cidjen » Sun Jun 17, 2018 7:26 am

Going just by what is in the comic, Miho's appearance was one of a villian at first. Then toying with Piro's and Largo's sanity. Then after Animate, and killbalz, something changes. Kimiko makes her change.

It's not just by her own words that something did change. The Miho of old probably wouldn't wait for Yakugashi to tell her to stop waiting for something to happen, she'd just do it.

And the old Miho would not wait for a Ninja to take her to her lover, she'd just do it.

I suppose some of us people did not catch on with this change, or maybe think this is a temporary lapse of ability.

Almost like some other person took over Miho characters control in the game.
Translation to polish
(Scanlations have now been deleted)

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Re: [1526] That kind of love

Post by Invisigoth » Sun Jun 17, 2018 7:31 am

nope, Full Megatokyo Panic is a mini-game just like Grand Theft Colo

You want dark though? MegaTokyo is in fact a simulated reality. None of the persons in that simulation have any idea that they aren't real and can be ended by a server outage.

THAT is just how twisted the unMod world is, a extremely high tech civilization with no ethics about creating and destroying sentient beings.

Fred recently watched Bladerunner 2049 and was aghast at how many things in that movie ran in parallel to what he was doing. In particular the virtual girl Joi

I recommend watching it if you've not, also for pete sakes people read some Gibson especially The Bridge Trilogy


BTW, Miho and Piro couldn't leave the city and shadow step to Manila as she wanted because the Manila Zone wasn't ready so they were dropped into the default entry point for MT that being the school

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Re: [1526] That kind of love

Post by Roamer » Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:11 pm

No, I prefer FMP because it's not as dark as UnMod.

Actually, the comparison I drew while watching BR2049 was comparing the next-gen replicants to Ping. Consider her current search for her missing level B and C libraries, and 'K's frantic search for memories... Yeesh. Of course I've read Gibson. Please tell me you've read Philip K. Dick. Also, If you haven't read it, I recommend Walter Jon Williams' Hardwired for a little known but lovely ride.

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Re: [1526] That kind of love

Post by Invisigoth » Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:51 am

Roamer wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:11 pm
No, I prefer FMP because it's not as dark as UnMod.

Actually, the comparison I drew while watching BR2049 was comparing the next-gen replicants to Ping. Consider her current search for her missing level B and C libraries, and 'K's frantic search for memories... Yeesh. Of course I've read Gibson. Please tell me you've read Philip K. Dick. Also, If you haven't read it, I recommend Walter Jon Williams' Hardwired for a little known but lovely ride.
I have Hardwired in my audible book library and I like to play it on long road trips to set the mood. as for PKD....well DUH! :D

MegaTokyo is a relaxing game world for the denizens of unMod. Largo is in reality a hard bitten cop perpetually partnered with a full blown sociopath who'd be hospitalized and sedated in any sane society but whose quirks are remarkably useful to her LEO. Largo's married to Erika and they have a house full of kids (6 I believe was the last count) so he has to worry about what happens if he's killed in the line of duty and if his insurance will even cover his funeral.

Piroko is a real mess, there's real reasons for her to be so nihilistic.

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Re: [1526] That kind of love

Post by iffy » Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:06 pm

Roamer wrote:
Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:28 am
all we have to go on are her reactions, the reactions of those around her, and the explanations we get.
Those, and our perceptions (opinions, determinations, conclusions) of them. Which perceptions may or may not be impacted by at least to some extent knowing it is filtered in what gets presented, and which background for may or may not have be determined already by the time it happens.
But we know that the reactions of most others are heavily affected by Miho herself, and the explanations are inconsistent.
What she does appears to often depend upon the situation and the actions and expectations of others as it occurs, modifying itself and them along the way. She is after all apparently one or more of the real thing, an Analogue, source of powerful story type(s). She may have been around for decades, centuries, millennia, or eons. Or not even exist. Many events or explanations are less inconsistent than they aren't there or are present only in partial sporadic bits and pieces. However, it seems that what she and others do is in motion, with both impacting each other and more. How much so to what, that is difficult to tell while things are ongoing, and we know so little of the objective. How many of the perceived inconsistencies are actually there? And of those that are, which are being seen only due to too many players impacting too many stories at the same time in too many ways. It could be this situation is highly unusual, if she's not the only one with the power or desire or skill or need to control, bend, change, impact the stories. How many stories. Maybe it all makes sense in the goal, perhaps there are too many protagonists to make that goal easily or at all reachable, who out here watching can tell yet.

It could make more sense if we look at this 'actual origin' thing as an example and arrange it a certain way. If Piro gets one type of story and Kimiko gets another type of story (say a goal is to create and/or destroy Sight) there is no inconsistency if neither story is true (to Miho) and both are true (to each of them). It isn't one inconsistent thing, it's three separate incomparable things that should stand alone. If we though try and put it into the context of one must be true single story, while it's ongoing, lacking most of the information, we get where we are. And if there's actually five or twenty or a hundred things going on like that, it couldn't help but be confusing, given what we know and where we're looking from.
It's using metalogic, which I dislike, but it's all we have, and it's why I choose to believe that the reactions we get from her are genuine.
It's difficult to discuss in-world without at least some of the out-of-world practical things impacting both perceptions and the discussion. Yes Miho is impacting the "author" while she's channeling it all, there is that unfortunate imperfect flow that results in some details not being created on time or at all, or has to fit in what was missed at a later time after something else was understood to be true already. All sorts of problems like that in content and context and timing, yet no more wrong or out of place than static on the radio during lightning storms. And even in the noise, most everyone inside and outside is convinced what she does is there and is valid, even at the times when none of it is true. Just about nobody can tell which is which and when is when, and that is especially confusing during the hectic ongoing parts.
Dunno. I'm perfectly willing to admit I could be totally wrong here, but it seems to me it makes more sense as a story if done this way.
When a big tree is 5 cm in front of you, it's almost impossible to see where the nearby forest is, especially if you're moving 50 kmh at the time. In which case you also might not notice the giant lizard about to hit you with a bag of pork rinds. But then spacetime bends and everything is okay, and you quickly forget the trip through the never was and always has been.

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Re: [1526] That kind of love

Post by Roamer » Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:16 pm

Invisigoth wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:51 am
Roamer wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:11 pm
No, I prefer FMP because it's not as dark as UnMod.

Actually, the comparison I drew while watching BR2049 was comparing the next-gen replicants to Ping. Consider her current search for her missing level B and C libraries, and 'K's frantic search for memories... Yeesh. Of course I've read Gibson. Please tell me you've read Philip K. Dick. Also, If you haven't read it, I recommend Walter Jon Williams' Hardwired for a little known but lovely ride.
I have Hardwired in my audible book library and I like to play it on long road trips to set the mood. as for PKD....well DUH! :D

MegaTokyo is a relaxing game world for the denizens of unMod. Largo is in reality a hard bitten cop perpetually partnered with a full blown sociopath who'd be hospitalized and sedated in any sane society but whose quirks are remarkably useful to her LEO. Largo's married to Erika and they have a house full of kids (6 I believe was the last count) so he has to worry about what happens if he's killed in the line of duty and if his insurance will even cover his funeral.

Piroko is a real mess, there's real reasons for her to be so nihilistic.
Yeah, too bleak for my tastes. Seriously, on any sane world Piroko would be in an asylum. The way Largo chews her out for showing kindness as being unlike her paints a starkly bleak picture. (Despite this, Fred's pictures of her keep getting hotter. I am amused.) You would be amazed how many professed lovers of the genre have never heard of PKD.

Wait, you use Hardwired as mood music for driving? What are you driving, a tank?

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Re: [1526] That kind of love

Post by Roamer » Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:36 pm

iffy wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:06 pm
Those, and our perceptions (opinions, determinations, conclusions) of them. Which perceptions may or may not be impacted by at least to some extent knowing it is filtered in what gets presented, and which background for may or may not have be determined already by the time it happens.

==

What she does appears to often depend upon the situation and the actions and expectations of others as it occurs, modifying itself and them along the way. She is after all apparently one or more of the real thing, an Analogue, source of powerful story type(s). She may have been around for decades, centuries, millennia, or eons. Or not even exist. Many events or explanations are less inconsistent than they aren't there or are present only in partial sporadic bits and pieces. However, it seems that what she and others do is in motion, with both impacting each other and more. How much so to what, that is difficult to tell while things are ongoing, and we know so little of the objective. How many of the perceived inconsistencies are actually there? And of those that are, which are being seen only due to too many players impacting too many stories at the same time in too many ways. It could be this situation is highly unusual, if she's not the only one with the power or desire or skill or need to control, bend, change, impact the stories. How many stories. Maybe it all makes sense in the goal, perhaps there are too many protagonists to make that goal easily or at all reachable, who out here watching can tell yet.

==

It could make more sense if we look at this 'actual origin' thing as an example and arrange it a certain way. If Piro gets one type of story and Kimiko gets another type of story (say a goal is to create and/or destroy Sight) there is no inconsistency if neither story is true (to Miho) and both are true (to each of them). It isn't one inconsistent thing, it's three separate incomparable things that should stand alone. If we though try and put it into the context of one must be true single story, while it's ongoing, lacking most of the information, we get where we are. And if there's actually five or twenty or a hundred things going on like that, it couldn't help but be confusing, given what we know and where we're looking from.

==

It's difficult to discuss in-world without at least some of the out-of-world practical things impacting both perceptions and the discussion. Yes Miho is impacting the "author" while she's channeling it all, there is that unfortunate imperfect flow that results in some details not being created on time or at all, or has to fit in what was missed at a later time after something else was understood to be true already. All sorts of problems like that in content and context and timing, yet no more wrong or out of place than static on the radio during lightning storms. And even in the noise, most everyone inside and outside is convinced what she does is there and is valid, even at the times when none of it is true. Just about nobody can tell which is which and when is when, and that is especially confusing during the hectic ongoing parts.

==

When a big tree is 5 cm in front of you, it's almost impossible to see where the nearby forest is, especially if you're moving 50 kmh at the time. In which case you also might not notice the giant lizard about to hit you with a bag of pork rinds. But then spacetime bends and everything is okay, and you quickly forget the trip through the never was and always has been.
1. Well, yeah, that's expected. The backgrounds keep changing on us, that's part of the problem. I have to wonder if the backgrounds are changing as a result of effects outside the game world, or those who have a stake in it. If UnMod is really as bleak as it's portrayed, then MT has to be another control mechanism. Simple escapism wouldn't be allowed, it would be considered too dangerous. (This is another reason why I dislike UnMod as the 'greater' MT world).

2. *laughs* Well, I think we can agree she exists, at least to those inside the MT world. How long has she been around? Based on whose perceptions? Your question is simply, how many moving parts are there in this game? And it's an excellent one - the more pieces you have, the more uncertainty, the more chaos, is going to be present in the system. Personally I think one of the main uses of the analogues is to reduce the chaos factor by taming or focusing the more easily swayed NPCs, who would otherwise be at the whims of anyone with a high degree of popularity of a certain type, like a voice actor. Keeping these pieces off the board makes it simpler to focus on other characters and influence them as desired. As a queen, Miho can suppress and direct a large number of pawns in the direction chosen.

3. True, but as PCs, they have to have the ability to interact and interfere with other stories. Otherwise they have no agency, and then what's the point? And it's entirely possible that they may find other stories as much or more compelling than their own, and decide they want to help...

4. And as was just pointed out, there are those that dislike or hate her. You have to wonder, does that decrease or increase the impact she has on the author? Though, I don't understand bothering to hate someone in a comic. It seems like entirely too much work for the return you get. Sure, I can see interest, or enjoyment, or loathing - I would cheerfully ask Megumi out if I ran across her in game - but hatred seems ridiculous. What's the point?

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Re: [1526] That kind of love

Post by Invisigoth » Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:37 am

I will only say this about the above speculation. The ultimate overworld for all of the nested realities of the MT Universe is Fred's Headspace and hating on Miho doesn't have the desired effects sought by the haters.

BTW my 2005 GTO is the prefered panzer for cross country trips while listening to Hardwired. For musical interludes here lately I love me some DevilDriver and especially their cover of Country Heroes with Hank3 himself

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Re: [1526] That kind of love

Post by iffy » Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:06 am

1. Backgrounds and Headspace. To put a bit of both together. The big-picture background information parts haven't been static, they've moved and reformed since 2000 in a lot of ways. Some things just about change themselves because they turn out to fit, others because they're decided to be changed, things get adjusted. Assuming realistically that there is no physical thing like Miho actually guiding the author's thoughts or creating and directing herself via telepathy. There are plots that won't fully fit correctly that have to be fixed as things go on. (If there isn't correction and maintenance, we get a real The Horde and don't nobody want that.) The smaller-pictures, some things happen that don't necessarily have an explanation or a well thought out reason when they happen, and some may have one (before or after) but don't ever get explained. Some will remain forever unanswered as to if they have more to them than the idea they might be there. Some which don't seem to be meant to be taken seriously, mostly we take them as little side gags, like the stripedbowl or curiouscatmiho or origamibail. Sometimes though we get a coepass, which only one person potentially knows when that gelled.

As far as the Omake etc, perhaps I just don't fully believe any of the non-story stories are or are meant to be actual things that exist in The Story, rather than something fun and standalone out of it. Are the characters in some meta way being played by actors who take over other roles in other projects, another mystery to guess at the links that might exist, inside some actual internal Megatokyo which we might not at all be seeing.

2. Miho. Well, at least those inside MT believe she exists. Is she an Irish Goddess or something eternal that is responsible for stories or a 1700s or 1800s rich girl turned pirate turned Rapunzel or prize in a simulation game. Whatever, her role at times does appear to soften some of the powers of others, but there seems a lot more there. It might be easy to say she's around 20ish and pretends really well, but we've seen powers that appear greater than MG and Ninja and Idol at the least, and potentially being respawned like our frequently destroyed game company example. Which fits into some idea of what the real thing is, moving between fiction and non-fiction in and out of MT.

3. Perception and consistency et al. If a person has a truth they know the facts for, convinces themselves of another "truth" with different "facts" (aka a story, fiction, a set of lies perhaps even), tells another different version to one person, and another different version to another. Repeat the versions a few times. To each, they may be perfectly consistent, but to outsiders that get some explanations of some versions and many bits and pieces that don't fit. It would likely seem inconsistent, random, unfathomable, but that's just because what the core is can't be seen or touched. Maybe our only question is if the core is rotten, or if it was removed and lost.

4. An eternal question. Loving or hating a character may have little to no impact upon the creator of it in any way, but it would seem more likely there's some influence on some processes over years even if there's no conscious cognizance there of what when why. Or maybe an example to hold forth is Komugiko. We can only guess.

Yes, some characters are more fun or enjoyable or useful or powerful or likable than others, but everyone has their role, why love or hate any of them. Yet there are dislikable and likable, people have least favorites to most favorites, and there are extremes some take one or both directions.

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Re: [1526] That kind of love

Post by Roamer » Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:08 pm

Invisigoth wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:37 am
I will only say this about the above speculation. The ultimate overworld for all of the nested realities of the MT Universe is Fred's Headspace and hating on Miho doesn't have the desired effects sought by the haters.

BTW my 2005 GTO is the prefered panzer for cross country trips while listening to Hardwired. For musical interludes here lately I love me some DevilDriver and especially their cover of Country Heroes with Hank3 himself
Good. That kind of foolishness should be punished. Again, I think Teddy serves a valuable role in the forum - he expresses the opinion without getting ranty, and he can have fun with it - but others don't. I'm not taking that stance because I'm pro-Miho, just anti-foolishness. It's a comic, guys. Let's keep it light, even when we're talking about it. If you're not having fun, what the heck are you doing here?

The first year with the LT2, very nice. I've thought about picking up one ever since I test drove one of the first 04s, but AWD works a lot better in the areas I've been living in. When I move next it's going to be to someplace a lot warmer in the winter, and I might pick one up to go with the Forester. It's criminally undervalued for what it does - and it's low profile enough to be a Q-ship.

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Re: [1526] That kind of love

Post by Roamer » Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:39 pm

iffy wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:06 am
1. Backgrounds and Headspace. To put a bit of both together. The big-picture background information parts haven't been static, they've moved and reformed since 2000 in a lot of ways. Some things just about change themselves because they turn out to fit, others because they're decided to be changed, things get adjusted. Assuming realistically that there is no physical thing like Miho actually guiding the author's thoughts or creating and directing herself via telepathy. There are plots that won't fully fit correctly that have to be fixed as things go on. (If there isn't correction and maintenance, we get a real The Horde and don't nobody want that.) The smaller-pictures, some things happen that don't necessarily have an explanation or a well thought out reason when they happen, and some may have one (before or after) but don't ever get explained. Some will remain forever unanswered as to if they have more to them than the idea they might be there. Some which don't seem to be meant to be taken seriously, mostly we take them as little side gags, like the stripedbowl or curiouscatmiho or origamibail. Sometimes though we get a coepass, which only one person potentially knows when that gelled.

As far as the Omake etc, perhaps I just don't fully believe any of the non-story stories are or are meant to be actual things that exist in The Story, rather than something fun and standalone out of it. Are the characters in some meta way being played by actors who take over other roles in other projects, another mystery to guess at the links that might exist, inside some actual internal Megatokyo which we might not at all be seeing.

2. Miho. Well, at least those inside MT believe she exists. Is she an Irish Goddess or something eternal that is responsible for stories or a 1700s or 1800s rich girl turned pirate turned Rapunzel or prize in a simulation game. Whatever, her role at times does appear to soften some of the powers of others, but there seems a lot more there. It might be easy to say she's around 20ish and pretends really well, but we've seen powers that appear greater than MG and Ninja and Idol at the least, and potentially being respawned like our frequently destroyed game company example. Which fits into some idea of what the real thing is, moving between fiction and non-fiction in and out of MT.

3. Perception and consistency et al. If a person has a truth they know the facts for, convinces themselves of another "truth" with different "facts" (aka a story, fiction, a set of lies perhaps even), tells another different version to one person, and another different version to another. Repeat the versions a few times. To each, they may be perfectly consistent, but to outsiders that get some explanations of some versions and many bits and pieces that don't fit. It would likely seem inconsistent, random, unfathomable, but that's just because what the core is can't be seen or touched. Maybe our only question is if the core is rotten, or if it was removed and lost.

4. An eternal question. Loving or hating a character may have little to no impact upon the creator of it in any way, but it would seem more likely there's some influence on some processes over years even if there's no conscious cognizance there of what when why. Or maybe an example to hold forth is Komugiko. We can only guess.

Yes, some characters are more fun or enjoyable or useful or powerful or likable than others, but everyone has their role, why love or hate any of them. Yet there are dislikable and likable, people have least favorites to most favorites, and there are extremes some take one or both directions.
1. I dunno, give me one of the TCPD's mechs and I'll take on a Horde, but I'm not going to be too concerned with keeping characters alive. Anybody willing to fall into a horde is either an NPC - or expendable. If we actually have a physically present Miho, and she's anything like the storyline we've been told, it means that this world we live in is a gameworld itself, and if so, I want my money back...this place is boring. (Refund requests will be cancelled on arrival of a suitable mech, with the necessary spares package, ammo, and support crew.)

The Omake stories, I think, were simply Fred having fun when he was stuck artistically. Maybe UnMod was always planned, maybe it just fell out that way, but - so far - the rest of the stories don't appear to have any association with the 'greater MT' world. If anything, it seems likely they're just beta test servers set up by the dev's based on random or historical game ideas they had.

2. At this point 'Miho' almost seems to exist as a cloud of probability - people decide what they want her to be, and the consensus reality, driven by the controllers and tuned by the would be zombies, shapes her form from day to day. This may just be some frustration on my part speaking because her story keeps changing....but she keeps becoming more human (currently making a foolishly selfish decision as we speak) and that's interesting.

3. Yup. This is a problem in the real world as well - it's why police prefer forensic evidence to eyewitness testimony. People can see something and convince themselves they didn't. Is the core rotten? If so, can it be restored? If this really is about the characters' plots, redemption is a good story. As you said, nobody can tell which is which and when is when - but at some point in each story, the truth has to be made visible. If people can drag themselves back from the void of this core corruption, then that's a powerful story to tell. That's the story I'm hoping is Miho's.

4. And it's really an idle thought. I've known authors, and several of them agree that their characters would 'speak' to them, telling them where the story would go - sometimes at the last minute. If the characters are talking to the author, what kind of serious chance do the fans have to influence matters by explaining, in painful detail, why they despise this being who's been whispering in the author's ear for over a decade?

At bottom this is Fred's story to tell. He can choose whatever fates he wants for these people who exist in his head; we're just along for the ride. It's been occasionally painful and frequently weird. But it's always been fun.

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cidjen
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Re: [1526] That kind of love

Post by cidjen » Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:20 am

Roamer wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:08 pm
Invisigoth wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:37 am
I will only say this about the above speculation. The ultimate overworld for all of the nested realities of the MT Universe is Fred's Headspace and hating on Miho doesn't have the desired effects sought by the haters.
[...]
Good. That kind of foolishness should be punished. Again, I think Teddy serves a valuable role in the forum
Even if only for comic relief ;)
- he expresses the opinion without getting ranty, and he can have fun with it - but others don't. I'm not taking that stance because I'm pro-Miho, just anti-foolishness. It's a comic, guys. Let's keep it light, even when we're talking about it. If you're not having fun, what the heck are you doing here?
[...]
I suppose that for many Miho-haters it's more like, they had a lot more time for their opinions of Miho crystalize and settle... whereas it's different for e.g. me who re-read the entire comic somewhere in December only :) I see this change in Miho going a lot faster than you guys who have been at it for years and years ... but at the same time I can see it may not be permanent.
After all it is her who wants to go to see /him/ again, after all, without having thoroughly thought it through.
Does she have an ulterior motive here? Maybe. Does it mean she's T3H blacker than black 3\/1|_ 0|\|3 ? not necessarily. or not forever. or both ? :)

Apart from Megatokyo being the Game played by the unMod universe inhabitants, i subscribe to the theory that Miho did fall in love with Piro back then, and pushed him away to protect him from her Bad Ending (by horde or otherwise) (well let's imagine what'll happen if he went to see her, all hopeful and ready to see /that girl he never saw/ and next thing, she'd 'die' in his arms... or somewhere in the street... or in the bathroom... oh look at the scars he'd get from that - maybe that's what she was thinking ? Obviously she did not know he knew how to do EMT...)

I just think, even if Miho goes to see him now, and exclaims her feelings, there is really not much she can affect any more in his stance. He may be compassionate and caring and understanding all he wants, but I think, falling in love with her again is not really an option here. Not without some serious sacrifice from /her/ end (and him also, making a sacrifice he may not be ready for... even if she explains her motives, whatever they were.).

(mandatory comic relief)
In unMod we don't see all the 'real' cast (haven't seen Moh there, but he exists in FMP) - maybe actually FMP is the real world ? There are no magical people in the 'real world', so no inspector Sonoda nor his family, but Miho plays a (dark, magical, Ill) girl in Megatokyo... and uses Moh as avatar in Endgames; Piroko plays Piro and uses (a version of) herself as avatar in Endgames.
Translation to polish
(Scanlations have now been deleted)

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