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[1520] What I've been feeling

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Re: [1520] What I've been feeling

Post by arimareiji » Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:08 pm

Invisigoth wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:11 am
Judas Freaking Priest on a pony....

Miho is feeling Kimiko because Kimiko is able to channel Miho's character.

By pretending to be Miho she's acting and that's the way Miho's character is used in Miho's stories as well as her games

Kimiko isn't just physically fucking Piro right now, she's mind fucking Miho as well.

Miho is being violated on a very basic level going right down to her lizard brain
Sword Art Online depicted it in very clean terms*, so Asuna's being horrified can feel a bit misplaced - but making someone feel emotions against their will is indeed a primal violation. The only comparable horror that comes to mind is breaking the foundations of trust and identity, i.e. child abuse.

I don't like linking TVTropes, but imo this trope nails it perfectly: Stability is Powered by a Forsaken Child.

* - And also took a VERY cheap way out at the end. XP

~
Edit:
darrin wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:00 pm
EDIT:
Also am I the only one who finds it a bit ridiculous how Google (of all folks) translator is so annoyingly anal about diacritics and such. I was able to cut and paste the phrase from the transcript (great work paarfi :D) to finally see the correct gloss but geeze, you'd think frigging Google would be able to stick in a stupid regexp to filter out the diacritics in something like this. :roll:
It could be worse. English doesn't even use them, so I pity the machine translator that has to figure out whether I read the story (past tense) or read the story (present tense). (^_~)
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Re: [1520] What I've been feeling

Post by TestAegis » Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:24 pm

Go there and "kick his ass"? Why, exactly? He isn't doing anything wrong. Even if Miho is in love with Piro, his feelings matter just as much as anyone else's. Miho and Piro aren't currently a couple, far as I'm aware, so anything Piro does is none of her business whatsoever. If Piro is in love with Kimiko, then he has that right to spend time with her in however manner he chooses. (provided Kimiko feels the same) Miho shouldn't even be a factor here, so what right does she have to just pop in unannounced and ruin whatever moment they're having right now?

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Re: [1520] What I've been feeling

Post by paarfi » Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:29 pm

TestAegis wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:24 pm
Go there and "kick his ass"? Why, exactly?
Well, don't forget that it's the 14yr old (or whatever) who is saying that. I fully expect them all to end up at the love hotel, but I don't see Miho going there with the intention of kicking his ass, no matter what Yaku might suggest.
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Re: [1520] What I've been feeling

Post by Roborat » Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:40 pm

Wow, this page was too funny, nice work. I think I see where this is going now, this should be good. I know this happening to Miho was suggested as a possibility, but I thought it was a pretty long shot, kudos to whoever guessed it. Also, this is possibly a way for Miho to subvert her story. In her story she was supposed to die tragically without knowing love; but with Kimi channeling her feelings to MIho, she can finally experience love, and a whole lot more, apparently. Maybe they can make this work as a poly relationship?

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Re: [1520] What I've been feeling

Post by DracMonster » Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:15 pm

paarfi wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:29 pm
Well, don't forget that it's the 14yr old (or whatever) who is saying that. I fully expect them all to end up at the love hotel, but I don't see Miho going there with the intention of kicking his ass, no matter what Yaku might suggest.
I don't think Miho will go willingly. I think she'd probably want to stay as far away as possible.

I do expect circumstances to force her there, though.

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Re: [1520] What I've been feeling

Post by iffy » Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:20 pm

We've got Miho the supranatural ur-example something or another out in the world when she's supposed to be in fiction, allegedly. Takes a heart attack (that she appears to have essentially given herself; it's her idea to take Piro on the demonstration after all), a pacemaker install, and is up and tearing apart hospital about as easily as she made Ed explode himself with the electricity thing at school or got Kimiko out of the path of exploding killballs at the diner. But of course the power of love (and story) gets everyone to help her live as she so desperately wants to, even in the face of her repeatedly not dying. Now, "hiding" to finalize the illusion of her death and/or story end for the sake of stability. To... whoever it is that's convinced she's not around and the story has ended so they can receive their catharsis at her expense.

As to what Miho is, that's under a spell of perception, since apparently she's as powerful and unkillable as she or the story or nature wants. What is she, how much control she has, these are questions best ignored apparently, for the sake of everyone's sanity at trying vainly to answer it without success. She has been stashed once again in a place she's not hidden in because apparently anyone who wants to (needs to) find her can. (She's got this draw to her, see. Like both Kimiko and Piro showing up the last time she was hidden. Or prior to that the formless shapeless psionic zerg that tore the school down.)

None of the participants thinks she's dead though, even if they don't know she's alive, which they mostly do. So guessing at who the audience actually is also seems grasping at the unestablished. Put into that basket what she actually thinks of Piro, what she wants, and even if she's involved in trying to help or trying to stop Kimiko The Idol or Sight as a project and product. Toss in as well if this is some attempt to help or stop the 'second one winning' scenario, still a demonstration for Piro, or if everything has just gone totally off the rails.

And now. We've got an overly enthusiastic child ninja wanting to protect her big brother, or a clan matriarch doing the goofy Yoda thing. A budding artist writer humanfoxsomething that thinks she knows everything going on and a sure fire plan to fix it, learned it all from home the last 6 or 10 years. These two are the current companions for Miho, and they are there seemingly there to fix things, to put her destiny right. Or at least fuel a story matching the three of them. Perhaps next there's a call to Junpei to move them, or even just why not have the ninja already there do it? Move Miho out of quoteunquote safety and back over to the story she left so it can be restarted or fixed or something, and does Miho keep acting or change her current focus to put herself back into the situation. As she seemed to want to when she got here, yes in a way 1472.

Surprise, you're now a remote part of the experiment in couples forging you were thinking about in 1121? Or has something gone either wrong or nefarious on everything.

But don't worry? You've got one or two young teenage girls to help you sort it all out. Maybe it's not time to go anywhere, but to arrange Yuki to show up to round out the set of three. Unless there's more waiting in it turning out you're being observed by the head of the clan, at least. Then again, maybe no matter how real your reaction seems right now, it's not quite really the actuality of the situation. One never does know.

Which may remind us of the interesting question Miho asks in 1471 about Junpei's mom knowing. What bearing does that have, why it's almost like this is a planned next stage of the story right now. Much like Junpei knowing so much about her, what she is, emergency orders, tales told by somebody who may actually know the truth. Although being somewhat pre-planed is obviously is a patently absurd idea. Unless, of course, that's just what it wants us to think.

;)

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Re: [1520] What I've been feeling

Post by darrin » Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:27 pm

arimareiji wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:08 pm
It could be worse. English doesn't even use them, so I pity the machine translator that has to figure out whether I read the story (past tense) or read the story (present tense). (^_~)
That's a whole level of complexity beyond what I'm asking for. All I'm saying is that when I type "coir" on the left side of Google translate (irish -> english) it should give me both "crime" (the gloss of "coir" that showed up in a few peoples' early guesses this thread) and "fair" (the gloss of "cóir") (and also glosses of any other words involving the same letters but different diacritics), as opposed to assuming that I have any clue how to enter said diacritics at my keyboard (or could be arsed to if I did know). That's trivial to implement (store all the words in your dict with an associated "diacritic-stripped" version, and use that stripped version for matching the word typed in by the user) and doesn't require any kind of contextual information (like the problem you mention above would).

Out of curiosity I went to Google's Chinese-English translator and typed "ni hao" (in roman letters, not characters). While it still pretended not to know what I was asking for (it gives "ni hao" on the English side, just as I originally got "coir" on the right side when searching the Irish word), it did at least give a "Did you mean <characters>?" below the roman I'd typed. I consider that an acceptable solution too (if I type "coir" give me all the irish words that use those letters, with appropriate diacritics added). That seems more helpful than assuming the user knows all the complexities of the language's writing system and has a suitable keyboard set up for entering said complexities. (Again, I wouldn't have been able to do any of this if I hadn't been able to just cut-and-paste the diacriticed version from the transcript, so All Cookies be Unto paarfi on this one.)

Enough off-topic stupidity from me though... Yowza. Yakugashi's enthusiastic "hey, don't like that version of the story, I can do something totally different!" in the last panel immediately made me think, hmm, not a lot of authorial commitment to whatever initial idea she had. :lol: I mean there's a big gap between accepting constructive editorial criticism and completely ripping out the guts of said story based on not much more than flinching and foreign-language-muttering by said editor. ;) It does nothing to curb my fears from previous strips that while Yaku may have the power to develop a new story for Miho (I am still calling her "magic-weaver Yaku" in my head :lol:), she doesn't (so far) project the air of someone with enough maturity to have said story do what Miho needs it to do (whatever that may be)... or remain particularly coherent for that matter. ("Come on, I said to choose ten things from this list of Stuff That Would Totally be Epic, don't stop now!!!")

EDIT:
iffy wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:20 pm
Maybe it's not time to go anywhere, but to arrange Yuki to show up to round out the set of three.
With One Asako to Rule Them All, and in the Darkness Bind Them.

Holy shit iffy, you can be really scary when you want to be. :shock:

EDIT2:
arimareiji, below wrote:The permutations of possible misspellings in even a short passage of text would be way too much to handle.
Sorry if I was unclear, but I am specifically talking about handling (ignoring, really) diacritics, not arbitrary misspellings. As I said, that's trivially handled in a way that scales linearly as the size of the dictionary; you don't need to worry about "permutations". (Your search is still O(n), not O(n^2) or whathaveyou.)

Right now their dictionary has something morally equivalent to (mostly perl-ish, but I'm using shorthand pseudocode not true unicode for the diacritic crap):

Code: Select all

my %eng_of_irish = (
...
   'coir' => 'crime',
   'c{SMALL O WITH ACUTE ACCENT}ir' => 'fair',
...
);
(or maybe it's o followed by {COMBINING ACUTE ACCENT}, who cares). So I type in 'coir' and somewhere there's a

Code: Select all

my $result is $eng_of_irish{$entered}
which spits back "crime", and I think, hmm, that doesn't sound right. What I'm saying is there should instead be:

Code: Select all

my %eng_of_irish = (
...
   'coir' => {'no_dia' => 'coir', 'gloss' => 'crime'},
   'c{SMALL O WITH ACUTE ACCENT}ir' => {'no_dia' => 'coir', 'gloss' => 'fair'},
...
where the 'no_dia' entries can certainly be constructed automatically from the original entries (you take a table that maps something like {SMALL O WITH ACUTE ACCENT} to a plain o, and then run each word in your dict through a regexp that matches on table entries). Then the matching code is more like ($entered is again plain 'coir')

Code: Select all

my @matches = grep { $eng_of_irish{$_}{'no_dia'} eq $entered } keys %eng_of_irish;
if (@matches > 1) {
  print "Did you mean:\n";
  for my $match (@matches) {
    print "   $match:   $eng_of_irish{$match}{'gloss'}\n";
  }
} else {
  # do simple stuff if only 1 match
}
Last edited by darrin on Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: [1520] What I've been feeling

Post by arimareiji » Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:56 pm

darrin wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:27 pm
arimareiji wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:08 pm
It could be worse. English doesn't even use them, so I pity the machine translator that has to figure out whether I read the story (past tense) or read the story (present tense). (^_~)
That's a whole level of complexity beyond what I'm asking for. All I'm saying is that when I type "coir" on the left side of Google translate (irish -> english) it should give me both "crime" (the gloss of "coir" that showed up in a few peoples' early guesses this thread) and "fair" (the gloss of "cóir") (and also glosses of any other words involving the same letters but different diacritics), as opposed to assuming that I have any clue how to enter said diacritics at my keyboard (or could be arsed to if I did know).
What was described was a copypaste, though. For three groups of letters it would probably be within reason to list all possible permutations, but Google Translate stops trying past the first. The permutations of possible misspellings in even a short passage of text would be way too much to handle.

(And unfortunately, GTrans doesn't even auto-recognize any of those words as Gaelic without the accents.)
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Re: [1520] What I've been feeling

Post by Ningen » Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:48 pm

That is probably not helped by the existence of the English word coir, a type of fibre used mainly for mats and rope.
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Re: [1520] What I've been feeling

Post by arimareiji » Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:41 pm

@darrin:

1) I doubt this was your intention, but editing the post I replied to, to try to answer my reply... makes things quite confusing.
Changing
~~~~~~~
Joe wrote:A+B=C
Jim wrote:
Joe wrote:A+B=C
But A=2C and B=3C, so A+B=D and A+B<>C
~~~~~~~ to ~~~~~~~
Joe wrote:A+B=C if A<>2C and B<>3C, and D is unknown
Jim wrote:
Joe wrote:A+B=C
But A=2C and B=3C, so A+B=D and A+B<>C
~~~~~~~
gives people who didn't see Joe's original post the false impression that Jim quoted Joe in a grossly-misleading context.

2) Let's say we have string "abcde", where a could be (a, á, ä) and e could be (e, é). Let's say it's easier because äbcde and ábcdé are meaningless. Google only has to list four meanings. That's reasonable.
On the other hand, what if we have "abcde fghij klmno", where i could be (i, ï, î, ī), n could be (n, ǹ, ñ) and o could be (o, ó, ô, õ, ồ)? Let's say 75% of the possibilities are meaningless. Google would still have to list ninety combinations, most of them garbage, and hope the user could pick out the intended meaning.
Per the listing in OS X's Character viewer, the mark possibilities for a=30, e=26, i=19, n=15, and o=38. Let's pretend 99% of those possibilities are meaningless. Google would have to list over 80,000 possibilities.
If you include all the mark possibilities listed for all the letters in "abcde fghij klmno", exclude 99.9% of them, and print each string only 1mm high... the list would reach the moon.

3) Please reply in as much detail you like, but I already feel guilty over the derail and won't respond in this forum.
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Re: [1520] What I've been feeling

Post by arimareiji » Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:24 pm

Sorry, I lied - I'm a raging mathophiliac, and it kicked in. (Plus, I love juvenile astronomy puns.)

If you printed only 1/1000 of the possible combinations of "abcde fghij klmno" (including just the mark possibilities listed in OS X's Character Viewer) on toilet paper, in lines 1mm high, it could reach the moon. But if you printed all of them, it could reach Uranus and wipe the entire surface five times. :geek:

(It could also come back afterward, not that we would want it to.)

~~~~~

Long-after-the-fact edit to clariffy: For the record, the hypothetical I calculated was that of the letters staying in the same order. Only the marks would change. For example, Abçdȅ (which means "coffee" in Brobdingnag) is not the same as Abçḓế (which means "gaslighting" on Tralfamadore).
Last edited by arimareiji on Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [1520] What I've been feeling

Post by Yl33 D4 N00b » Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:39 am

What would the possibility be of the Horde converging at the love hotel if Miho showed up?
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Re: [1520] What I've been feeling

Post by paarfi » Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:48 am

Yl33 D4 N00b wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:39 am
What would the possibility be of the Horde converging at the love hotel if Miho showed up?
It's a good question. I expect they think Miho is dead (again), for the moment. So that might throw them off a bit. But she does always come back (or at least she always has).

Maybe the right answer is that it depends on what happens at the love hotel. If it's enough inline with a story they expect or understand, then that would probably draw them in. That seems to be the criteria Miho has mentioned before.
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Re: [1520] What I've been feeling

Post by iffy » Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:00 pm

Hmmmm. For the Dance of the Evils Miho referred to the zoned out people waiting for her return as the grieving horde. That isn't like now. Then the many seemingly large incongruities in stories brought about The Horde, masses of people from everywhere somehow psychically extranaturally appearing as a force capable of tearing down buildings and even absconding with the target of their affection/dislike, potentially. They were drawn off and dispersed by Yutaka and Yuki. That also isn't like now.

More recently, we've not seen non-fitting stories, apparently. Although sure just because we can't see them doesn't mean they aren't lurking around somewhere, or capable of appearing on a moment's notice. Who has been around though, we've seen superhero types, TPCD, special ops, otaku. Whoever Largo and Erika were fighting, whoever was helping Erika, those at nurse Ririka. Seemingly there is not anyone being drawn in by story not fitting, those around are even involved in it. Whatever is happening now seems to fit someplace, isn't appearing 'for no reason.' Stems from earlier happenings, even perhaps more and more absorbing the participants into itself.

Would these rather out-of-story people (snotty brat writer, wannabe ninja powerhouse, discarded bit of evil) going to the new or branched or sub story of 'artist and idol' not fit, be out of place, draw back whatever hordes there might be in wait?

Well, it might not seem any horde is likely, especially if Miho has no power no control no choice no plan no goal, and no idea of what might happen next. There might not be anything to latch onto as out of place.

That could very well be that indeed, somebody is becoming the Analogue for Miho. But maybe it's not Kimiko, maybe it's Piro, or maybe it's both. At one point it almost seemed like something Miho may have been trying to accomplish, and true or not, whatever she was trying or not, it could be that such choices have been removed from her to make. Are now up to fate, or to the story, if you wish. Which puts a whole new spin, perhaps, upon what exactly Miho is going through. That it isn't as simple as it first appears; less squicky, more sinister.

We have seemed to just learn that for 'Analogue Powers' that not only might an EDS absorb some or much of, but that the 'host' may absorb in return some of the behaviors (emotions, senses, feelings) from the 'target.' The recipient being those who are enveloping a quantity of 'Analogue Essence' into some new form of narrative, target derived initially from host, returned back around. If this is a sort of thing that doesn't normally happen, or has never happened, that could be a problem for the status quo, or a new way to develop Stability.

Perhaps Ping took away some power from Miho, then that Kimiko's portrayal is too good for the remaining power to handle, and when combined in synergy with Piro's hyper emotionally real art, overwhelms whatever Miho has left. After all, she has been very busy the last few weeks, interacting with Largo and Piro, Ed and Dom, Ping, Kimiko, the 'Killball Escapes' and whatever she had been doing as regards machinations with Yuki/Yutaka, Erika/Largo, and Kimiko/Piro.

This might not even be a thing a horde can sense because it isn't at all standard, and perhaps no longer even resides within Miho. It looks something like that in a lot of ways.

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Re: [1520] What I've been feeling

Post by iffy » Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:48 pm

On another note, Miho here seems almost reacting to cooties, in some way akin to as if she's never been physical, which is certainly impossible, isn't it? Although not being able to handle a type of feelings she's never experienced might suggest this is her first time out in reality actually interacting with people, and being forced to feel something she seems to dislike more than being killed. Yet which doesn't seem to match her earlier adventures with Meimi, or at least what Miho says about all of it to Yuki at the ASF in 1254-1257, or even what was in the chat logs, or the ease she co-ed bathes and discusses various topics between the bath house and one or more co-opted stories or avoided demises along the way to the hospital and beyond.

That leads to other things. In 1237 Yuki thinks it's not right, in 1365 Miho thinks that's not fair. , but going back all the way to the 500s we get what seems even closer to something dim and tricky.

In 539 Ping says <Isn't that... ...from yesterday's scenario.> Which scenario, why. That seems curious, but even more so what we get from the scenario next in 540 where Kotone twice says "It's not fair". Which admittedly is a story path where her pet passes. Still, there seems something there.

Then these more frequent outbursts in Irish might add quite a bit more context to all of that, especially if we factor in the Endgames behaviors and untold story along with a bit (or a lot) of the tale related to Kimiko in 1402-1406. The trick I suppose is figuring out what fits how to where.

At the least, she's fully fluent in at least three languages apparently, although perhaps that's not odd at all for an Analogue that can fit into anything. Which all in all then, perhaps the current behavior is histrionics due to being with who else is there, those who aren't supposed to be in on the mystery, so we move into slumber party mode and Miho becomes like the company she keeps in her demeanor and modesty in thought and action.

The Analogue interacting with young teenager girls. This does seem like a good time for Yuki to show up, really. And if it wasn't for Yuki not wanting them to know etc (1300-) why not Mami and Asako as well. Great idea for a party, extend this story further along elsewhere and such.

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Re: [1520] What I've been feeling

Post by cidjen » Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:07 pm

iffy wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:48 pm
In 539 Ping says <Isn't that... ...from yesterday's scenario.> Which scenario, why.
Well for Ping at that point anyway, all she was doing was a scenario... see 470. This game is called 'Catalyst'

Ed did show up in Megagamers and tried to force himself (470 again) but was driven out by Erika (472, 474) and chewed up by school girls (482).
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Re: [1520] What I've been feeling

Post by iffy » Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:24 am

Ah thanks, Ping thought Ed creepily testing her is a scenario in the Catalyst game, right. Which her reaction there the next day is vaguely remembering him, so seems she's not got too much of a notion.

For Miho it still looks somewhat like she's somewhat entered a sort of young teenage girl scenario, how much further will it go. It does seem at least somewhat more likely she's got some feelings for Piro she's kept totally hidden so far, physicality issues, and even some psychic link with Kimiko and or Piro. It remains to be seen if that's all just part of the story being weaved now. So it could be just another story, which happens to work this way, regardless of how much depth is there.

If it's not just another story, if we're getting closer to the center, it might be odd she would be so unaware of how Kimiko playing her might work. Although if this had never happened to her before, that would be one explanation of being actually really disgusted over it, rather than just because of cooties and such. It would then also be another variation on the story, not her dying (like she tells Piro) not everyone around her dying (like she tells Kimiko) but her being absorbed by Ping and Kimiko and whoever else (like she has hinted at). Which is rather less like being put together (by the otaku) and more like being taken apart (by the other players).

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Re: [1520] What I've been feeling

Post by Lingman » Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:58 pm

This is going to sound like a weird question, but is ninjagrrl doing Yakugashi's hair without her noticing? When she entered, back in 1515, she didn't have anything in her hair except the one ribbon near the bottom. By the last frame, she's got a LOT of flowers, ribbons etc...

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Re: [1520] What I've been feeling

Post by NinjaDefenestrator » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:55 pm

@Lingman Yeah, she is. Sort of like she was trying to dress up Miho and do her hair, but Miho’s got super speed and Yaku doesn’t, so Grandma’s having her fun now instead.

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Re: [1520] What I've been feeling

Post by Zahooee » Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:04 pm

Invisigoth wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:11 am
Judas Freaking Priest on a pony....

Miho is feeling Kimiko because Kimiko is able to channel Miho's character.

By pretending to be Miho she's acting and that's the way Miho's character is used in Miho's stories as well as her games

Kimiko isn't just physically fucking Piro right now, she's mind fucking Miho as well.

Miho is being violated on a very basic level going right down to her lizard brain
Quoting Invisigoth because it was the easiest instance to find in the thread.

Since I haven’t seen anything that confirms this one way or the other, I’d like to propose something a little less...squicky?

When I read this page (and reread it several times) I just assumed that Miho was reacting to the unfamiliar feeling (for her) of jealousy.

I’m not saying that I’m correct, just—you know—occam’s razor and all...

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Re: [1520] What I've been feeling

Post by Rapierman » Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:58 pm

Okay, I propose a new entry in the Megatokyo Drinking Game: Two drinks when someone mentions "Occam's Razor" (because they use it like a crutch).
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Re: [1520] What I've been feeling

Post by paarfi » Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:02 pm

You can't use a razor as a crutch, especially if you're going to be drinking. I think you're over-complicating things, and there might be a simpler way.
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Re: [1520] What I've been feeling

Post by maldrul » Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:49 pm

paarfi wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:02 pm
You can't use a razor as a crutch, especially if you're going to be drinking. I think you're over-complicating things, and there might be a simpler way.
Yes there is: Take your Occam's razor, get in your car, take the 405 south until you reach the Schlossen cutoff, get out of your car and cut off your Schlossen.
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Re: [1520] What I've been feeling

Post by cidjen » Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:06 am

Haha amazing... Someone had something in their sig about tinfoil hat made from merciless pounding on the Occam's Razor... Where is it...

@Zahooee:
As for what Miho Has Been Feeling - to me it actually makes sense, that it's Piro's feelings that manifest themselves on her... Recall the Animate event, it's been widely accepted in the MT universe that a 'bond of love' occurs between lovers ? (and Kimiko doesn't seem to show having one yet back then, which almost ends badly for Piro).
Piro may not be able to understand Miho or receive her feelings, because of what she did to him, she burned his receiver, but the link seem to be working still for her end...
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Re: [1520] What I've been feeling

Post by iffy » Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:17 pm

"It is futile to do with more things that which can be done with fewer, whenever possible substitute constructions out of known entities for inferences to unknown entities, when you hear hoof beats think of horses not zebras, nature operates in the shortest way possible, other things being equal simpler explanations are generally better than more complex ones."

If we're going for more easy and more uncomplicated, most every indication so far has been that Miho has been working towards just this sort of thing. What she wanted and needed even. They didn't fail, they must succeed. It seems more convoluted to give Miho feelings that she's not really displayed, then attribute another reaction to more feelings built off of that notional one when none of them have been established to begin with. Much more complicated is hypothesizing she started one way (whichever of the many choices that would be) and then things went wrong; what went wrong how when why, that is to large extent immeasurable, there are too many variations. The most complex of them all, infinite permutations and combinations. There are many easier explanations, even if there's no apparent way yet to tell which of those might be the most likely.

And even still, it isn't the case that just because an idea is simple and concise it's correct; just that it's more likely than one that's complicated and verbose. But it's still a philosophical way to solve problems, that a hypothesis with few assumptions might be more likely to be correct than one with many. Yet when your problem is mostly all assumption, what is there to do then. When there's a no shortage of competing vague notions that aren't even past observation and research. When not only don't you know which potentials are most possible but also don't know which ones haven't even been thought of.

Also, this isn't a natural phenomena or physicality that has facts that exist. It is not science, criminology, probability theory. If we go by Aquinas' "it is superfluous to suppose that what can be accounted for by a few principles has been produced by many" the answer is right there, and that answer is the single principle of the author. Simple and nearly demonstrably correct, even if overly meta. This follows a rule of sorts. That the truth, no matter how complicated or simple, as long as it's not too outrageous or artificial-looking or unbelievable, is whatever the author says it is. Even if they have no idea when they start what it is and have barely formed the answer when they give it. It begins in a way as nothing, a book with or without a hamster in it. Even if in this case pretty clearly there's one on the cover.

Although besides being complex in one way, in another way that jealousy idea is fairly simple as well. The idea Miho is jealous, and that that surprises her, she's not supposed to have fans, she's not supposed to have hope. It also would highly suggest she had no previous plans for Piro, but now that she's gotten him together with Kimiko, is developing envy. Realizes it has had an effect upon her, rather than the usual nothing. That does not establish Miho in the past had much in the way of feelings for him though, it more establishes the opposite. A lack of many feelings is also more in line with her behavior and actions since we first saw her. She seeks conflict, relishes in discomfort, but isn't much engaged most of the time. Yet the teenage girls seem to be perceiving there were those feelings in the past, for a Yaku that has her information from a specific filtered single source apparently, even a Yuki who was there for a bathhouse scene that consisted of nothing but talking and arguing in a situation more standoffish and hostile than it was anywhere near friendly, much less romantic. (A situation which at the end has nothing solved, and his conscience apparently leaves in disgust. Certainly leaves without having been needed for any matters of conscience.)

However, for both of those sets of perceptions and any other (including perhaps whatever Enjii knows and thinks, whoever she is), what else is to be expected. Miho is an Analgoue, stories stem from her, they are supernaturally believable regardless of how much they aren't. We have also seen over and over her tendency to not disagree with the conclusions others arrive at (rather than agreeing, supporting, or suggesting them directly herself). So what others think and what Miho doesn't say about it all isn't very helpful in determining anything.

Not all is lost. One of the most simple non-meta explanations is that Miho didn't really seem to start behaving this way until others had drawn off most all of the attention from her, leaving her storyless. That she only went into this mode once she was interacting with an apparent teenage girl, which has accelerated since the arrival of a known teenage girl. Leading to what appears a simple fitting easy answer, those who Miho is interacting with here directly have set her down the path of a new story, which has her acting in applicable appropriate ways.

Being still in progress, any of that could be changed to be more or less like it at any time, but if we are looking for things closer to what we already think we know, story is probably a good choice.

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