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[1499] Little Reflections

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Re: [1499] Little Reflections

Post by Invisigoth » Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:35 pm

Magical Girls whether current or of the burned out variety aren't shy about laying the truth bare. Something about that whole "Code of Love" thing that they follow.

Erika however, is most certainly a chunky, big butt bossy bruiser. A sort of quasi-Thor with the baka-hammer when she portrayed Moeka.

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Re: [1499] Little Reflections

Post by BetaCygnus » Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:38 pm

Invisigoth wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:35 am
Ririka is or was a healer. I don't see how the compound hell anyone would imagine her as ever referring to herself as any sort of 'bruiser' but keep on fantasizing
To me, she seems to be rather down to earth about herself.
I guess Ririka might know best if she, intending to do some good, ever actually ended up hurting someone.

Seems to be sort of a theme in MT, if I read the story right.

;)
Last edited by BetaCygnus on Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:45 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: [1499] Little Reflections

Post by BetaCygnus » Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:41 pm

By the way, Fred, I didn’t mention yet that I really like the way in which the two conversations in this comic are interlaced.

Kudos! =)

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Re: [1499] Little Reflections

Post by Mitsuko73 » Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:50 pm

Poor Ririka. Her last comments to Erika sound like "I have no filter because I'm about to pass out". When a magical girl (even an ex-MG) admits that something hurts, that's bad.

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Re: [1499] Little Reflections

Post by darrin » Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:19 pm

Invisigoth wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:35 pm
Magical Girls whether current or of the burned out variety aren't shy about laying the truth bare.
There is a vast difference between "the truth" and the sort of mouth-breathing high-school-bitch-clique garbage that Ririka tossing an unwarranted and unprecedented "big butt" snipe would represent.

Oh wait...
Erika however, is most certainly a chunky, big butt bossy bruiser.
...you actually believe that's in any way a valid description of Erika. "Let me laugh even harder" as Bender would say... well, not laugh exactly, more like "throw up in my mouth." But "chunky big butt" is at least subjective (and I admit to having no further desire to delve into the "major head issues" of anyone claiming that), and "bruiser" was already addressed; can you point to any actual strip where Erika is being in any way "bossy"? (Again, as opposed to being violently defensive of her personal space when she perceives someone else is trying to be bossy to her.) 'Cause I'm calling bullshit on that one.

Coming at this from yet another angle, why the hell would Ririka suddenly start talking about Erika at all? She obviously has been talking about herself since panel 4 of 1498, and then in panel 4 of 1499 she explicitly starts talking about the public fictional "version" of herself (the obvious implication being that Stability "sanitized" the story into being about a "thin, flat, pretty little blond girl"). You are basically claiming that in the next panel, she switches again, not to talking about another MG, or about the fictional version of another MG, but the voice actress of a fictional version of another magical girl.

This makes sense how? In the midst of offering her own style of reassurance to Yuki, "You must be going through some crazy stuff; and brace yourself, because once your exploits get fictionalized your life will really get wacky..." she suddenly decides to wrap it up with "Oh, hey, and make sure your VA isn't a fatty, like this one over here, cuz DAMN!" And the proffered explanation for why she has suddenly changed from the cute helpful nice sweet nurse into Barney Friggin Stinson is... wait for it... "laying the truth bare". Right, Kobayashi Ririka, whale biologist. :/

The much simpler explanation is that while work was being done on the "fictional version" of Ririka's exploits (or after they were made available to the public), Ririka at some point expressed curiosity as to why the "physical" aspects of her portrayal were being changed (from the "real version") so drastically, and some Stability asshat basically gave her a (hopefully more politely phrased) version of what she says in panel 5, and at some level it still stings. She still tells herself she was super-duper cute, but long ago stopped being surprised that the surface details of who she actually was and what she actually had to deal with are widely perceived as "not magical at all" and "damag[ing] [their] love of the genre." The advantage of this view is that it doesn't require the assumption of an unprovoked and unprecedented change in Ririka's character, and keeps the flow of her conversation from panels 3->4->5->9 simple and linear, instead of hopping about randomly and going through contortions in the middle just to whip out a gratuitous insult at Erika.
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Re: [1499] Little Reflections

Post by Ningen » Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:13 pm

I think you also have to bear in mind that people's self-image is not always very accurate.

As pure speculation, I'm wondering if her cutesy speech was originally developed in attempt to tone down and cover for her forceful/bossy nature. Remember that in the West, the squeaky wheel gets the grease, whereas in the East, the tall nail gets hammered down.
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Re: [1499] Little Reflections

Post by Teddy-Werebear » Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:50 pm

So the magical girl mascot thing is manufactured nonsense for marketed shows? "Real" MGs do not have them in irl Megatokyo? Yuki was just copying the shows she grew up with on TV when she adopted and shrank Zom Zom?

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Re: [1499] Little Reflections

Post by Yl33 D4 N00b » Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:52 pm

I think Largo should be the last judge as to who is the big butt bossy bruiser....... :lol:
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Re: [1499] Little Reflections

Post by Invisigoth » Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:02 pm

They were discussing the actress who played Ririka's part then after a bout of pain directly following the reference to chunky big butt bossy bruisers she immediately went to Moeka.

Erika is a chunky, big butt bossy bruiser. There's more than enough references to the fact that she was difficult to work with and a real terror in fact to validate this. The fact that the first time Piro and Largo encountered her when she was doing model work at a game show and she broke Largo's arm should be taken into account too....

Also, there's not a trace of a smile when she responds to Largo's unrepentant admission to jealousy. I personally think that sent a chill down her spine and reminded her of similar sentiments from her former fiance Hitoshi.

There's a lot going on in this strip and not a single bit of it is all warm and cuddly feel good Erika x Largo shipping

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Re: [1499] Little Reflections

Post by darrin » Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:16 am

Invisigoth wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:02 pm
The fact that the first time Piro and Largo encountered her when she was doing model work at a game show and she broke Largo's arm should be taken into account too....
darrin wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:19 pm
(Again, as opposed to being violently defensive of her personal space when she perceives someone else is trying to be bossy to her.)
(Emphasis added.) Saying (albeit non-verbally) "don't fucking grope me" is not being "bossy". Don't want your damn arm broke, get permission before touching her breast.

Still calling bullshit on this whole wacky unsupported claim.
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Re: [1499] Little Reflections

Post by TarsTarkas » Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:37 pm

I also don't see all this implied nastiness in this comic. I thought it was a heart warming moment.

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Re: [1499] Little Reflections

Post by Invisigoth » Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:53 pm

Oh it's ugly and likely to get uglier, just saying

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Re: [1499] Little Reflections

Post by iffy » Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:59 pm

It's probably entirely possible Ririka was referring to some archetype, or some other type of character class not MG. Or simply the opposite of small cute nice. That she wasn't talking about herself or Erika or even anyone in particular. A generic 'nothing like the original' make the frail elf witch a tough giant monster turtle.

Given who is there and how everyone reacted, it seems more she's thinking that while neither is like her, being played by a "thin flat pretty little blond girl" is preferable to being played by a "chunky big butt bossy bruiser". Not that she's calling anyone in particular either of those things.

paarfi wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:51 am
Their real efforts to save people going unappreciated because it wasn't sparkly enough. Stability clearly sees this as necessary, to keep the fanboy hordes quiescent. But I don't think the means justify the ends.
Maybe there's only a very limited way to handle these sorts of things. This one is sort of not good maybe even bad, but look at how much worse the alternatives are.
Invisigoth wrote:
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I can only imagine what it must have done to the TPCD and the forces of Order when Miho attempted to take control of the power vacuum that Erika's leaving caused.
Unless it's that if nobody had stepped in, that vacuum would have been catastrophic. But we can't let anyone not in on it know that. iirc we've never really heard why Miho did it or what she was trying to accomplish. Maybe that's part of her purpose, to absorb such things before they destroy reality or the like. Lead to total chaos. It could also be she was doing the same sorts of things she was up to in Endgames. Whatever that was.
DracMonster wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:43 am
Honestly, I don't think there's really anything to work out. He's not being stupid-jealous and they're being honest with each other. Erika's blush was nice though.
Right, he didn't seem to taken aback by what she said, he starts a joke of sorts. And telling him to shut up seemed more because of what was going on in the Ririka Yuki conversation.

It also sort of appeared that the blush might have been more due to she had realized what the conversation was? Or that she didn't want anyone to hear the discussion about her minions, and also started feeling a bit obvious being the subject of attention and conversation. The actual beings and those portraying them fictionally, maybe a bit of guilt at giving up and risking incredible chaos.

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Re: [1499] Little Reflections

Post by darrin » Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:45 pm

iffy wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:59 pm
It's probably entirely possible Ririka was referring to some archetype, or some other type of character class not MG. Or simply the opposite of small cute nice. That she wasn't talking about herself or Erika or even anyone in particular.
Okay no offense but "good thing I wasn't portrayed as a FATTY" is really not many degrees better than "that Erika sure is a FATTY". This is RIRIKA we are talking about here, she would never use a phrase as crude and nasty as "chunky big butt" on any other person on the planet. If she ever honestly and sincerely considered someone overweight, and honestly and sincerely considered this fact at all worth mentioning in the context of the conversation (fucking why? Do any of you people have an actual model in your head for what Ririka is trying to tell Yuki here, why she would suddenly gratuitously start calling other folks "chunky big butts" (WTF???) for no reason whatsoever?), then she would say something like "oh, she's gotten a teeny bit chubby in the tummy-wummy, so cute and cuddly, hee hee". Like the guy said on Rick & Morty, "not this trailer park shit."

This shouldn't be a hard conversation to follow, and while Ririka's "cutesie-wutsie" speech can be a bit cloying in large doses, it's still way easier to translate (for my money) than that ear-stabbing "leet speek" of Largo's. :P Basically it goes:

1) Being a magical girl is hard. [1498, panels 3, 4, 6]

2) You will get hurt, and people you love are likely to get hurt too. [1498, panels 8, 9, to some extent 6]

3) Adding insult to injury, once you get fictionalized, you will have even less control over your life; and you certainly won't he happy with the representation. [1499, panels 3, 4]

4a) Erika is fat. Like, hippo fat. [Invisigoth]
4b) At least they didn't make me fat. Now that would totally have sucked. [iffy]

Okay, anyone remember Sesame Street? If not, anyone care to google "one of these things is not like the other"?

I've already stated my own version of 4); but in more detail, Ririka walks into her Stability handler's office one day, asking in all innocent confusion why she's been morphed into the picture paarfi posted earlier in the thread, and is told that "the cute version will play better", "100% buy in from the focus groups on this", "thin and pretty is perceived as much less threatening by the fan base", "let's face it, you're not exactly... slender", "it's not meant to be realistic, it's meant to be an image people can relate to positively". Eventually building up to a gentle reminder of the contract she signed allowing all this to happen in the first place, and a not-so-thinly veiled threat regarding the consequences if she makes trouble over issues like these. And since it's established in-comic how readily Stability will issue termination orders for the ones with catastrophic grade powers who don't toe the line, it's really not a stretch to imagine she'd Stockholm-syndrome herself into believing she was making the right choice for the right reasons, that "of course I'm not the right look for something like that, they'd certainly know better, wouldn't they?" Calcifying over the years into the little pill of self-directed (however unjustly) bitterness in panel 5.

When I first read her "super-duper cute" remark in 1498, it struck me as a bit braggy, not something I'd expect her to say. I mean yeah, she is, but someone wouldn't ordinarily say that about themselves, comes off a bit conceited. But when I hit panel 5 of this one, it finally clicked, she's not bragging, it's a lifeline; she is desperate to remind herself and keep believing that she was doing the right thing, that an innocent but powerful young girl putting herself in danger to save others is being cute, no matter what attitude the Stability and fanboy dipshits might have toward her appearance.

TarsTarkas nailed it, it's a heartwarming moment, the experienced practitioner relating the good and bad of their own career to the jittery novice, encouraging without being patronizing. It's really not hard to follow the structure of what Ririka is saying (assuming one isn't running off into the weeds :roll:).
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Re: [1499] Little Reflections

Post by Mamma Peach » Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:19 pm

Frankly Ririka is "chunky" and possibly "big butt", if by chunky she means the same thing as my daughter does when she talks about her body while others might call her curvy or well built, and real nurses have to be bossy- maybe real magical girls too. Ririka is definitely not flat and slim, nor blond or passive, but she is still super-cute in her own way. On the other hand while Erica is very dangerous, especially in private, she is a taller more slender build (without being flat) and more menacing than bossy when she's not being polite, neutral, or playing a roll. They are talking about appearances vs. reality after all. The description fits Ririka much better than Erica.

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Re: [1499] Little Reflections

Post by Invisigoth » Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:36 pm

Umm...Erika slim? Are you serious?

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Re: [1499] Little Reflections

Post by darrin » Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:05 pm

Invisigoth wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:36 pm
Umm...Erika slim? Are you serious?
Are you? Mamma Peach said "slender" not "slim" first of all. Looky here, that is muscle not fat. Slender in the sense of bony? No, that's Kimiko; but slender in the sense of "muscular rather than fat", quite reasonable.

But that's missing the point. Even if Erika were morbidly obese, Ririka would never bring that up for no reason, she would certainly never spout something as nasty as "chunky big butt". And no she wouldn't be "laying the truth bare", she is not speaking truth to power here, she is saying one thing to Yuki and then turning around and "pretending" to be sickly sweet to Erika to her face. (No Erika didn't hear the "big butt" comment, she was busy talking to Largo and only noticed Ririka when she started to keel over.) That's not being a tell-it-like-it-is, don't-like-it-you-can-piss-off bitch (which would already be completely out of character); no, under your version of events, Ririka is a two-faced snakey piece of shit. If you're "serious" about this claim there ought to be some kind of justification for why Fred would so abruptly (literally between two panels) and completely change her, or for why it "isn't" really a change in character (she's "always" been a total bitch, and the rest of us were just too dumb to notice no doubt).

But that's still missing the point. Even if one accepts all your crazy wacko unsupported assumptions -- fine Erika is FAT, three thousand pounds, whatever. Fine, Ririka would actually say this to Yuki apropos of nothing whatsoever, she's not having a heart-to-heart with Yuki, just a tripped-out stream of consciousness riffing. Right, fine, Ririka has only looked cute and sweet so far in the comic, she is actually a trashy little guttersnipe who would say "chunky big butt" when they meant "overweight". And hey, why stop there, she is a vicious little two-faced harpy that would say that not to the object's face, but behind their back.

Even IF you force yourself to swallow all of that (complete and utter bullshit but hey let's go for it), then, as I already said last post,
darrin wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:45 pm
1) Being a magical girl is hard.
2) You will get hurt, and people you love are likely to get hurt too.
3) Adding insult to injury, once you get fictionalized, you will have even less control over your life; and
4a) Erika is fat. Like, hippo fat.
... then the conversation still makes NO FUCKING SENSE whatsoever. There is no connection at all between 3 and 4, no way to get there short of a tent spike through Broca's area or some seriously wrong meds. You are taking the Gricean maxims, dumping them on the floor, dropping trou, and shitting all over them.

If there is any justification at all for this totally fucked up Bizarro worldview I could probably manage to stay interested (although I gotta say it is pretty much hanging by a thread at this point). If it is just more snippy one-liners without new content then I think I am kinda done.
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Re: [1499] Little Reflections

Post by Invisigoth » Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:04 pm

I didn't say that Erika was fat, she's quite full figured. In other words, she's a chunky big assed bossy bruiser who played Moeka and a body type not at all like the slender, flat little blonde girl who player Ririka

And BTW, how are you people all suddenly experts on what Ririka would or wouldn't say anyway? That's a much bigger flight of fancy than anything that I've ever said.

But I really have to stop talking now :P

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Re: [1499] Little Reflections

Post by Sbear » Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:17 am

When Ririka praises Erica for doing so much to help people and save the world I'm reminded of "my favorite episode", strip #1113. Isn't this the essence of what a megatokyo-grade idol can and is supposed to be?

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Re: [1499] Little Reflections

Post by Invisigoth » Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:36 am

Sbear wrote:
Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:17 am
When Ririka praises Erica for doing so much to help people and save the world I'm reminded of "my favorite episode", strip #1113. Isn't this the essence of what a megatokyo-grade idol can and is supposed to be?
THIS is the most awesome post in this entire thread!

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Re: [1499] Little Reflections

Post by BetaCygnus » Thu Nov 23, 2017 4:00 pm

Invisigoth wrote:
Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:36 am
Sbear wrote:
Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:17 am
When Ririka … is supposed to be?
THIS is the most awesome post in this entire thread!
…and THAT is your first one in this entire thread (of a whopping 45 posts so far) on which I fully agree with you, In'goth.

;)

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Re: [1499] Little Reflections

Post by Rapierman » Fri Nov 24, 2017 5:48 am

"Bossy, bruiser" may have once referred to Erika's attitude earlier in this saga (I do recall her breaking Largo's bones at one time and sort of bossing Piro around, though not much).
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Re: [1499] Little Reflections

Post by Initial B » Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:24 am

Not much to say about this one, except I'm waiting for Ririka to provide a little more context to the last two panels.

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Re: [1499] Little Reflections

Post by chemi » Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:41 pm

It's pretty obvious from context that Ririka is referring to herself.

You'd think after this many years people would learn not to take Invisigoth's bait.

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Re: [1499] Little Reflections

Post by Invisigoth » Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:38 am

chemi wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:41 pm
It's pretty obvious from context that Ririka is referring to herself.

You'd think after this many years people would learn not to take Invisigoth's bait.
And nothing I've said had anything at all to do with the the context of the last two panels.

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