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> Game Of Thrones Season 2
daesim
Posted: Apr 15 2012, 11:24 PM
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Well, we're up to episode 3. And.

YOREN! Why?! Why?! Why?!

Armory Loch sucks.
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shoeboxjeddy
Posted: Apr 17 2012, 04:17 AM
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Try to keep book spoilers small texted if you want people to actually visit this thread people. Last year, some flaming douche bag insisted on shouting to the heavens that Ned gets killed when the show was up to like episode 2 or 3. Hopefully we can prevent a similar doucheplosion this year...

The show is super awesome if also super spread out this year. Pretty much the exact opposite of the shit Walking Dead adaptation, which can't think of anything to do with its characters for 98% of the running time. In this show, you'd be happy watching Tyrion for an hour at a time, but then there's Rob and John and Arya and Stannis and Renly and Dany and on and on.

In ep 3, Tyrion's play he made at the three advisors was awesome and it was pretty cool picking up exactly what he was playing at before the scene even ended. And they even went back and explained it thoroughly for the people in the back of the audience who were still trying to remember names much less what his scheme was.

At this point, I'm holding in crash position, waiting for the first horrible awesome-character death. According to all the book fans I've talked to, the author is a sociopath. (Again, no spoilers)
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errantrogue
Posted: Apr 17 2012, 04:27 PM
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QUOTE (shoeboxjeddy @ Apr 17 2012, 04:17 AM)
Try to keep book spoilers small texted if you want people to actually visit this thread people. Last year, some flaming douche bag insisted on shouting to the heavens that Ned gets killed when the show was up to like episode 2 or 3. Hopefully we can prevent a similar doucheplosion this year...

I'm not flaming....

Point was, I'm not a douche for rolling my eyes in the face of obvious death-flags just because I've read the book. If you cast Sean Bean in a fantasy role, you have to expect him to be dead right quick.

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At this point, I'm holding in crash position, waiting for the first horrible awesome-character death.  According to all the book fans I've talked to, the author is a sociopath.  (Again, no spoilers)


The good guys are always fighting entropy AND the bad guys and you expect the bad guys to be defeated? Tyrion has repeatedly shown he's pretty much the only one with any sense of honor that isn't self-serving. Guess what that means for him?

Boy, you're gonna hate it when the Imp buys it (don't worry, I won't tell you when). You gonna yell at me for that too? Or was that Bran? Or Arya? Can't quite recall

This post has been edited by errantrogue on Apr 17 2012, 04:34 PM
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shoeboxjeddy
Posted: Apr 18 2012, 01:30 AM
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QUOTE (errantrogue @ Apr 17 2012, 05:27 PM)
I'm not flaming....

Point was, I'm not a douche for rolling my eyes in the face of obvious death-flags just because I've read the book. If you cast Sean Bean in a fantasy role, you have to expect him to be dead right quick.

The good guys are always fighting entropy AND the bad guys and you expect the bad guys to be defeated? Tyrion has repeatedly shown he's pretty much the only one with any sense of honor that isn't self-serving. Guess what that means for him?

Oh yeah it was you, wasn't it? A fresh fuck you to add to the stack. No no, your impeccable logic still holds "Derp, I knew so it couldn't possibly be a spoiler to anyone in the entire world, right? That's how spoilers work?" Really kinda sucks the dramatic tension out of the SEVERAL EPISODES IN A ROW where they decide Ned's fate if erranfuckingtongue has seen fit to tell us what happens, don't you think? Well, I did enjoy the uncertainty, but I think I enjoy errantongue's desperate attention seeking even more. - said no one on the planet
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Kegluneq
Posted: Apr 18 2012, 05:14 AM
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QUOTE (daesim @ Apr 16 2012, 05:24 AM)
YOREN! Why?! Why?! Why?!

He got a better death than many characters. Shame the commander (name?) didn't kill a dark-haired child. Also, Arya/Ari is just the best.

Could we not turn this into a spoilers/bitching about spoilers thread? It's a pretty cool story but I've only read (two thirds of) the first book. I made it through the first season genuinely not knowing who died, so it would be nice to be able to talk about the series without having it ruined.
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-sam
Posted: Apr 18 2012, 08:34 AM
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QUOTE (shoeboxjeddy @ Apr 17 2012, 05:17 AM)
At this point, I'm holding in crash position, waiting for the first horrible awesome-character death.  According to all the book fans I've talked to, the author is a sociopath.  (Again, no spoilers)

Could anyone who's read the books and is watching the show confirm for me that the thing that happens at the end of the third book won't be until season 3? Like I said in the S1 thread that was the moment I checked out on the books, and my guess is it'll make some folks lose their shit, so I really don't want to spoiler it. smile.gif
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errantrogue
Posted: Apr 18 2012, 09:04 AM
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QUOTE (shoeboxjeddy @ Apr 18 2012, 01:30 AM)
Oh yeah it was you, wasn't it?  A fresh fuck you to add to the stack.  No no, your impeccable logic still holds "Derp, I knew so it couldn't possibly be a spoiler to anyone in the entire world, right?  That's how spoilers work?"  Really kinda sucks the dramatic tension out of the SEVERAL EPISODES IN A ROW where they decide Ned's fate if erranfuckingtongue has seen fit to tell us what happens, don't you think?  Well, I did enjoy the uncertainty, but I think I enjoy errantongue's desperate attention seeking even more. - said no one on the planet

Actually, it was "I knew AND they telegraphed it... not only in the casting, but in the show details themselves... so suck it up." It's like watching Dexter and expecting him NOT to kill his seasonlong big bad serial killer. Or (as you brought it up) The Walking Dead and NOT expecting two "best" friends to fight to the death over one woman.

I failed to see how the dramatic tension was taken out of the Return of the King just because we all knew Frodo/Sam/Golem would "toss" the ring into Mt.Dhoom.

http://geeks.thedailywh.at/2012/04/17/geek...oof-of-the-day/

This post has been edited by errantrogue on Apr 18 2012, 09:41 AM
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Kegluneq
Posted: Apr 20 2012, 03:20 AM
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QUOTE (errantrogue @ Apr 18 2012, 03:04 PM)
Actually, it was "I knew AND they telegraphed it... not only in the casting, but in the show details themselves... so suck it up." It's like watching Dexter and expecting him NOT to kill his seasonlong big bad serial killer. Or (as you brought it up) The Walking Dead and NOT expecting two "best" friends to fight to the death over one woman.

Expecting the Big Bad of a series to eventually cop it isn't much of a stretch of the imagination. However, the death of a protagonist is something else entirely. Ned's death was fairly strongly foreshadowed, but dying before the series finale was perhaps less expected (especially since it was, as many characters have pointed out, a stupid death, which happened solely because Joffry is a douche).

Additional 'fuck you' for the Walking Dead spoiler btw, although I've not watched that past episode 2.
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errantrogue
Posted: Apr 20 2012, 10:00 AM
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QUOTE (Kegluneq @ Apr 20 2012, 03:20 AM)
Additional 'fuck you' for the Walking Dead spoiler btw, although I've not watched that past episode 2.

You don't have to worry too much... they're stretching everything out in the series. One of them should've bought it really quick, but the producers decided they preferred the dramatic tension between the menage a trois.


As for Thrones... I just hope they make the "choke on a doughnut" scene very public and very satisfying with lots of agony for the intended.

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shoeboxjeddy
Posted: Apr 25 2012, 07:23 AM
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Honoring Keg's request to not just attack erran full time, episode 4...

Holy fuck balls we're into some magic now. Magical shadow babies with very short pregnancy times? Okay... ohmy.gif

Tyrion is amazing as always. "That was a threat, see the difference?"

Seems like there would have been a scene with Samsa and her new handmaiden after the went to the trouble of setting that up, but I guess they ran out of time.

No Jon Snow this time. No Bran either, but no one gives a shit about that.

Dany's plot is on the move again. I'm guessing this city will be pretty troublesome for her, like King's Landing was for Ned. She's more crafty/vicious than he was though and thus will probably do much better. Jorah living through all of it though... unsure.gif

Wow, who would have pegged Tywin as the rescuing force in Arya's plotline? Of course, she's probably avoiding some trouble now for A LOT of trouble later.

Renly is actually pretty cool compared to Stannis. Thus, Stannis will probably win through some amazing bastard move. Like having that magic demon shadow baby assassinate him would be the obvious way.

And Rob gets the husband bulge from women who talk back and do crazy surgeries. It's better than how Joffry gets off (ry).

Oh and Erran, don't actually answer any hypothetical questions raised with book knowledge. Talk about the stuff that was shown or make a spoilers thread. That would be an excellent non-cunt thing to do.
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Kegluneq
Posted: Apr 26 2012, 03:39 AM
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Dany's plot is going in a bit of a strange direction. King's Landing was a focal point for a lot of storylines in the last season, what are they going to do with a whole new city for one character? (Also, did that scene play out like this in the book? It seems more than a little odd for the entire ruling council of a town to turn out to meet barbarians, even if one of them is a Targaryen.)
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Renly is actually pretty cool compared to Stannis. Thus, Stannis will probably win through some amazing bastard move. Like having that magic demon shadow baby assassinate him would be the obvious way.

That, or Littlefinger will continue to undermine him. It's not really clear how big a deal homosexuality is in this setting, but if he's represented as being unable to sire an heir, it would surely harm his chances of being made king.
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It's better than how Joffry gets off (ry).

I'm not even totally sure it was a sexual thing for him. Talking of missing scenes, where was Tyrion's reaction to that?
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shoeboxjeddy
Posted: Apr 26 2012, 08:05 AM
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QUOTE (Kegluneq @ Apr 26 2012, 04:39 AM)
Dany's plot is going in a bit of a strange direction. King's Landing was a focal point for a lot of storylines in the last season, what are they going to do with a whole new city for one character? (Also, did that scene play out like this in the book? It seems more than a little odd for the entire ruling council of a town to turn out to meet barbarians, even if one of them is a Targaryen.)

That, or Littlefinger will continue to undermine him. It's not really clear how big a deal homosexuality is in this setting, but if he's represented as being unable to sire an heir, it would surely harm his chances of being made king.

I'm not even totally sure it was a sexual thing for him. Talking of missing scenes, where was Tyrion's reaction to that?

I wouldn't call that a strange direction. I'd call it the obvious direction. Either she finds a new source of power to become a force later on... or she dies which would be the dumbest fucking waste of time ever. Do you want Chekov to spin in his grave?! Oh and the entire ruling class is 13 people. Not that big a deal to come out and a good way to make sure you lose all your power and influence is to be the one guy in the 13 that decides he doesn't need to see the big important person with the only living dragons come to visit.

Littlefinger got bitched out by Renly's wife, I don't see him being much of a force in Stannis v Renly. Plus, if random dudes in the Lannister camp are telling butt buddy stories about Renly, that ship has long since sailed. Now Littlefinger and Cat is of course a big deal, but that won't matter either way until Cat gets back to Robb's camp.

Mostly a joke, but I kind of do think he's a psychopath and it's near sex for him. Also I hear that was show original, so they probably didn't want to daisy chain 20 scenes of "reaction to the thing that we made up in the first place". That's how you get The Walking Dead and NOBODY wants that. dry.gif
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Kegluneq
Posted: Apr 26 2012, 10:48 AM
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QUOTE (shoeboxjeddy @ Apr 26 2012, 02:05 PM)
Not that big a deal to come out and a good way to make sure you lose all your power and influence is to be the one guy in the 13 that decides he doesn't need to see the big important person with the only living dragons come to visit.

It's also a good way for your entire ruling council to be instantly wiped out - for instance, by three adolescent dragons, as they weren't to know how dangerous the dragons were. Either they all went solely to snub her (which would surely be a waste of their time), or they considered her a potent political force - whom they then snubbed. I see why it's important to see what her character is doing, but this feels like a clumsy abridgement of events.
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Littlefinger got bitched out by Renly's wife, I don't see him being much of a force in Stannis v Renly.

Littlefinger got repeatedly bitched out by Ned, and look how that ended up...
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shoeboxjeddy
Posted: Apr 26 2012, 11:46 AM
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QUOTE (Kegluneq @ Apr 26 2012, 11:48 AM)
It's also a good way for your entire ruling council to be instantly wiped out - for instance, by three adolescent dragons, as they weren't to know how dangerous the dragons were. Either they all went solely to snub her (which would surely be a waste of their time), or they considered her a potent political force - whom they then snubbed. I see why it's important to see what her character is doing, but this feels like a clumsy abridgement of events.

Littlefinger got repeatedly bitched out by Ned, and look how that ended up...

Well they didn't come out to snub her. They came out to kill her and take the dragons if the situation presented itself. Remember the Garden of Bones thing they JUST mentioned? And the point of snubbing was that one guy who supported her and did the knife on hand thing. emot-eng101.gif

I remember it differently. I remember Littlefinger talking circles around Ned who was too "noble" to do or say anything but what he was thinking about doing. Yes Ned could lay the hurt down with his direct bluntness, but most of the time, he got destroyed. Remember, Littlefinger said not to trust him... Whereas with Cat and the Queen, he got crushed on his level of doing things (for now).
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Kegluneq
Posted: Apr 26 2012, 03:44 PM
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QUOTE (shoeboxjeddy @ Apr 26 2012, 05:46 PM)
Well they didn't come out to snub her.  They came out to kill her and take the dragons if the situation presented itself.  Remember the Garden of Bones thing they JUST mentioned?  And the point of snubbing was that one guy who supported her and did the knife on hand thing. emot-eng101.gif

They didn't have to come out to kill her, and if they had that in mind, they could probably have bought more guards (Cat's sister put on a more threatening welcome...). And the Noble Moor expy's show felt just like that, rather than a sudden change of heart. I dunno, that whole scene seemed a bit odd.
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I remember it differently.  I remember Littlefinger talking circles around Ned who was too "noble" to do or say anything but what he was thinking about doing.  Yes Ned could lay the hurt down with his direct bluntness, but most of the time, he got destroyed.  Remember, Littlefinger said not to trust him...  Whereas with Cat and the Queen, he got crushed on his level of doing things (for now).

It's possible that Littlefinger will spend this season/book getting outplayed, but is that true to type? I can see him changing tack and moving on - even if that means siding with Stannis. Least likely is him actually getting what he wants from Cat.
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Manual
Posted: Apr 26 2012, 07:38 PM
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Renly's homosexuality is getting overplayed in the tv series compared to the book.

This season is following the book, but its more...different...than the first season is compared to the first book.
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shoeboxjeddy
Posted: Apr 27 2012, 02:29 AM
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QUOTE (Kegluneq @ Apr 26 2012, 04:44 PM)
They didn't have to come out to kill her, and if they had that in mind, they could probably have bought more guards (Cat's sister put on a more threatening welcome...). And the Noble Moor expy's show felt just like that, rather than a sudden change of heart. I dunno, that whole scene seemed a bit odd.

It's possible that Littlefinger will spend this season/book getting outplayed, but is that true to type? I can see him changing tack and moving on - even if that means siding with Stannis. Least likely is him actually getting what he wants from Cat.

They had to come out to convince her to show the dragons (in order to steal them and kill her). There is zero chance she would show the dragons to guards or servants. And it wasn't a change of heart, it was that guy getting increasingly insulted by the way they were treating "savages" and more and more impressed by her brave demeanor in the face of certain death.

Again, Littlefinger isn't there for Stannis/Renly. You're way overfocusing on something that's not even the point. He was sent for Jamie and to slightly pacify the Starks with Ned's body.
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Kegluneq
Posted: Apr 27 2012, 03:14 AM
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QUOTE (shoeboxjeddy @ Apr 27 2012, 08:29 AM)
They had to come out to convince her to show the dragons (in order to steal them and kill her).  There is zero chance she would show the dragons to guards or servants.

She had no idea what the ruling council of Qarth was, and the merchant was clearly a (self-elected?) spokesman for them all. If they wanted to see the dragons, they could have done so in their own time once their existence had been confirmed - or even just watched from the battlements in relative safety.
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And it wasn't a change of heart, it was that guy getting increasingly insulted by the way they were treating "savages" and more and more impressed by her brave demeanor in the face of certain death.

So he said. The fact he didn't (as far as I recall) intervene at any earlier point rather indicates it was a bit of a show. It's not as if the council hadn't previously left 'savages' out to die before.

Edit: I imagine that future episodes will explain the context for that scene a little more, it just seemed strange at the time.
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Again, Littlefinger isn't there for Stannis/Renly. You're way overfocusing on something that's not even the point. He was sent for Jamie and to slightly pacify the Starks with Ned's body.

Yes, if the last season taught us anything it is that Littlefinger is totally forthright and honest in his actions and motivations. That two vying heirs to the throne are also close by is surely of no interest to him.

This post has been edited by Kegluneq on Apr 27 2012, 06:54 AM
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shoeboxjeddy
Posted: Apr 27 2012, 06:54 AM
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QUOTE (Kegluneq @ Apr 27 2012, 04:14 AM)
She had no idea what the ruling council of Qarth was, and the merchant was clearly a (self-elected?) spokesman for them all. If they wanted to see the dragons, they could have done so in their own time once their existence had been confirmed - or even just watched from the battlements in relative safety.

So he said. The fact he didn't (as far as I recall) intervene at any earlier point rather indicates it was a bit of a show. It's not as if the council hadn't previously left 'savages' out to die before.

Yes, if the last season taught us anything it is that Littlefinger is totally forthright and honest in his actions and motivations. That two vying heirs to the throne are also close by is surely of no interest to him.

It seems like Jorah knew some things about Qarth. And it's likely that the guy who went ahead would mention that they're suddenly faking it if they were. They wanted to see the dragons because a number of things are possible. Like she left someone back with them and didn't have them at all (thus just surprise attacking her whole party would be a failure). Seeing goes along with confirming their existence... And again, safety? You did... see Dany's party right? Under 15 people, mostly women, lightly armed, starving to death, dehydrated. OH SHIT, STAY ON THE BATTLEMENTS SON, THEY'RE STORMIN' THE GATES.

This I won't argue with as it's entirely too possible. Making that guy her "ally" would be a strong play to taking advantage of her later on. However if it's not a trick, the difference would be between this time and others that she had stuff to offer and probably made a more impressive showing.

I'm not saying Littlefinger wouldn't like to do something about this, but I will say it's not gonna happen. The shadow baby thing is gonna have some tremendous impact here, you'd have to be blind to be like "Oh whatever, magic shadow baby that's not a big deal. What's LITTLEFINGER gonna do??? ohmy.gif"
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Kegluneq
Posted: Apr 27 2012, 07:22 AM
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QUOTE (shoeboxjeddy @ Apr 27 2012, 12:54 PM)
You did... see Dany's party right? Under 15 people, mostly women, lightly armed, starving to death, dehydrated. OH SHIT, STAY ON THE BATTLEMENTS SON, THEY'RE STORMIN' THE GATES.

Jorah and the surviving sworn bodyguard of Danys could probably have cut their way through the guards (who don't even seem to outnumber the crowd as a whole), or at least thrown some very inconvenient daggers. There didn't even seem to be any archers covering them. Effort...?
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I'm not saying Littlefinger wouldn't like to do something about this, but I will say it's not gonna happen.  The shadow baby thing is gonna have some tremendous impact here, you'd have to be blind to be like "Oh whatever, magic shadow baby that's not a big deal.  What's LITTLEFINGER gonna do??? ohmy.gif"

Magic Shadow Baby could be killed by a deus ex machina (=burning curtains). Littlefinger also captured Ned Stark - true, Ned could never have gotten far, but it was Littlefinger who put the knife to his throat. He certainly seems to be the type to put himself in the best place wherever possible. And in this season, we may have his obsession for Cat as a strong motivating factor as well.
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shoeboxjeddy
Posted: Apr 27 2012, 07:29 AM
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QUOTE (Kegluneq @ Apr 27 2012, 08:22 AM)
Jorah and the surviving sworn bodyguard of Danys could probably have cut their way through the guards (who don't even seem to outnumber the crowd as a whole), or at least thrown some very inconvenient daggers. There didn't even seem to be any archers covering them. Effort...?

Magic Shadow Baby could be killed by a deus ex machina (=burning curtains). Littlefinger also captured Ned Stark - true, Ned could never have gotten far, but it was Littlefinger who put the knife to his throat. He certainly seems to be the type to put himself in the best place wherever possible. And in this season, we may have his obsession for Cat as a strong motivating factor as well.

They're starving/thirsting to death too. I doubt Jorah could kill 20 guys in his condition. Hell, I doubt Jorah could kill 5 guys with spears in his condition... If you're saying there wasn't 50 guards... budget. That was not the place to spend $$$.

Wha? I'm hoping that wasn't some kind of crazy book spoiler, but even if it was I don't know what it means. A reference to how they killed the White in that Wall officer guy's room? Littlefinger captured Ned Stark who was at that point an unarmed cripple. GOOD JOB. Also there was like 20 armed King's Guards ready to get him if not for Littlefinger. Maybe Littlefinger thought he was ensuring he wouldn't be stabbed to death right then and there and thus obliquely doing him a favor? Who knows. Anyway, why don't you and Littlefinger get a room or something, geez. rolleyes.gif (He is pretty cool, but chill out already)
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Kegluneq
Posted: Apr 27 2012, 08:29 AM
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QUOTE (shoeboxjeddy @ Apr 27 2012, 01:29 PM)
They're starving/thirsting to death too. I doubt Jorah could kill 20 guys in his condition. Hell, I doubt Jorah could kill 5 guys with spears in his condition... If you're saying there wasn't 50 guards... budget. That was not the place to spend $$$.

And the best way to highlight a low budget is to do what they did... I'd be interested to know how that scene plays in the book but I'll get on to that eventually I guess.
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Wha?  I'm hoping that wasn't some kind of crazy book spoiler, but even if it was I don't know what it means.  A reference to how they killed the White in that Wall officer guy's room?

Yes (in the book it's burning curtains, on hindsight I think it was just a lamp in the tv series). But basically I would worry more about the untrustworthy people than the Obvious Threats ™.
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Littlefinger captured Ned Stark who was at that point an unarmed cripple.  GOOD JOB.  Also there was like 20 armed King's Guards ready to get him if not for Littlefinger.  Maybe Littlefinger thought he was ensuring he wouldn't be stabbed to death right then and there and thus obliquely doing him a favor?  Who knows.

It's Littlefinger who bookends that scene in both the book and tv series - possibly he did do it to keep Ned alive, but then the only person who wanted Ned dead was Joffry. Littlefinger is a pretty odious pragmatist, but he's still more of a character than Shadow Baby at the moment. (Super powers: low BMI, can give people bad dreams?)
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shoeboxjeddy
Posted: Apr 27 2012, 08:52 AM
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Okay, so you're guessing that Shadow Baby is a special effect and not a character and therefore we should be watching the characters? Yeah... you'd be eaten by a direwolf pretty much. You can't ignore or downplay the crazy shit angle anymore man. Baby dragons basically make Dany a kingdom unto herself. The wolves make each Stark a force in the world (where is Arya's wolf again? I know Samsa's was killed, but where's Arya's at the moment?). And finally, Stannis stands a chance of beating Renly here despite his lack of martial force because of his magic birthing priestess.
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Kegluneq
Posted: Apr 27 2012, 09:32 AM
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The characters are more interesting than the special effects, yes, in that they are human and to some degree quantifiable. We haven't seen the Shadow Baby do anything yet, it's just there. (I'm pretty unenthused about Dany's dragons at the moment for that reason as well.)

They're simply using very big (Northern Inuit) dogs to represent the Dire Wolves, which is very effective. Arya's wolf - Nymeria - was released somewhere on the King's Road and hasn't been mentioned since. It's not wildly unfeasible that they are currently near each other now, but then it has been over a year since they were separated sad.gif

Stannis already has his older brother status as his biggest asset; Ned did believe him to be the natural heir to Robert after all. The Shadow-Ghost thing, according to Stannis is simply meant to convince Renly to reconsider his position, rather than actually kill him. If the Shadow Baby does eventually just do that, that would be rather dull.
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shoeboxjeddy
Posted: Apr 27 2012, 11:55 AM
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QUOTE (Kegluneq @ Apr 27 2012, 10:32 AM)
They're simply using very big (Northern Inuit) dogs to represent the Dire Wolves, which is very effective. Arya's wolf - Nymeria - was released somewhere on the King's Road and hasn't been mentioned since. It's not wildly unfeasible that they are currently near each other now, but then it has been over a year since they were separated sad.gif

Stannis already has his older brother status as his biggest asset; Ned did believe him to be the natural heir to Robert after all. The Shadow-Ghost thing, according to Stannis is simply meant to convince Renly to reconsider his position, rather than actually kill him. If the Shadow Baby does eventually just do that, that would be rather dull.

Aww. Well they'll have to foreshadow it if it comes back and eats the Tickler or something. Everybody cross your fingers about that though!

lol. "Your claim is invalid, I have a shadow baby." That would be much dumber than using the evil magic creature for a nefarious magic deed. Like say... assassination. Or even possession?
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