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> Brave
charliepanayi
Posted: Mar 2 2012, 01:59 PM
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I seriously doubt Pixar are going to suddenly start using Shrek's riffing on popular culture as a template.
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Zandra
Posted: Mar 4 2012, 08:12 PM
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SHE SPLIT HIS ARROW IN TWAIN!!! Stand back! this calls for Patriot arrow mark 3!!
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errantrogue
Posted: Mar 4 2012, 10:07 PM
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QUOTE (charliepanayi @ Mar 2 2012, 01:59 PM)
I seriously doubt Pixar are going to suddenly start using Shrek's riffing on popular culture as a template.

Umm... have you SEEN Cars 2? One giant Larry the Cable Guy movie is pretty close to the intellectual equivalent. The only real difference is the level of detail in the art.
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charliepanayi
Posted: Mar 5 2012, 01:56 PM
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QUOTE (errantrogue @ Mar 5 2012, 04:07 AM)
Umm... have you SEEN Cars 2? One giant Larry the Cable Guy movie is pretty close to the intellectual equivalent. The only real difference is the level of detail in the art.

No I didn't see it as I heard it wasn't very good and we all know they only made it for the merchandising cash. As such I disregard it.
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omoikane
Posted: Mar 5 2012, 03:08 PM
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QUOTE (Kegluneq @ Mar 2 2012, 06:37 AM)
but some legitimacy is nice.

i still don't know where you get this legitimacy notion from. unless it's historical fiction or recreation it's not legit at all.
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shoeboxjeddy
Posted: Mar 5 2012, 09:25 PM
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QUOTE (errantrogue @ Mar 4 2012, 11:07 PM)
Umm... have you SEEN Cars 2? One giant Larry the Cable Guy movie is pretty close to the intellectual equivalent. The only real difference is the level of detail in the art.

Well whoa whoa whoa. In structure, it was more of a Spy Hard or Johnny English or Get Smart type deal. It just made the (rather major) mistake of assuming anyone would enjoy it if the main character was Larry the Cable Guy.
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omoikane
Posted: Mar 6 2012, 09:33 PM
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Kegluneq
Posted: Mar 7 2012, 12:16 AM
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QUOTE (omoikane @ Mar 7 2012, 03:33 AM)
http://youtu.be/_8cLhckSAAw

Princess Mononoke 3D? That was pretty awesome, if a bit spoileriffic. Billy Connelly's character's new voice is hilarious.
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Vallen Chaos Valiant
Posted: Apr 4 2012, 12:24 AM
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QUOTE (shoeboxjeddy @ Feb 26 2012, 06:10 AM)
It's a thorny situation for sure.  Especially because in fairy tale situations, love is 99% of the time portrayed as perfect happiness as long as you do it right.  Even "fractured fairy tale" stuff like Enchanted still had everyone live super happily and married forever, despite the whole plot being an acknowledgement that it doesn't really work that way.

So should the girl in this stay single?  No not necessarily if she doesn't want to, but think about how this always works.  Take How to Train Your Dragon for example.  Lead chick goes from clear best warrior in the group to "Gasp, I hope he's okay!" support character the moment the love plot kicks in to full gear.  In Berserk, the romance arc only starts because Caska gets her ass kicked and needs to be saved from being raped.  Take in mind she earlier was fighting the main hero pretty decently and decimating the enemy.  Wall-E did things pretty well, Eve didn't lose her action agency after she decided she liked the little goof.  In fact, she might have gotten MORE action scenes after that point.

So yeah, "independent women can't fall in love" is... true in the time period of this movie basically.  Because if she met a guy, no matter how amazing he was, post-marriage she's a baby factory and there's no way she's going into the field bow in hand.

@Keg, appropriate music is subjective.  Were their bug music choices correct?  What about their monster music choices?  Fish music?  Future music?  I would say they generally just choose good music and leave it at that.

I guess my problem with the "Independent women can't fall in love" is that it actually supports sexism.

That was the entire reason why women lost their independence to begin with. "We need women to breed or the species will die out, and if that means stopping them acting independently then so be it".

I just don't see how the story would be anything but stereotypical, if the moral of the story is "only women who act like men are allowed to be independent". We know that already; that's the standard social order for centuries. Sexism practically use that principle as its main building blocks.

I want to see Brave as a movie about a rebellious woman who wants to make her own rules. But I see any ending where she considers romance unacceptable as just another path well travelled. It's not her own rules any more if everyone else does it.

EDIT:
Now that I saw the JP trailer, I feel like my post was a waste of time. She obviously have better things to do than pursuing romance in this movie. So my worries are rather irrelevant. I blame the English trailer for being vague.

This post has been edited by Vallen Chaos Valiant on Apr 4 2012, 12:51 AM
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shoeboxjeddy
Posted: Apr 4 2012, 03:09 AM
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QUOTE (Vallen Chaos Valiant @ Apr 4 2012, 01:24 AM)
I just don't see how the story would be anything but stereotypical, if the moral of the story is "only women who act like men are allowed to be independent". We know that already; that's the standard social order for centuries. Sexism practically use that principle as its main building blocks.

Well... examine what you just said. What is "acting like a man" exactly? Fighting? Being strong? Not caring about families or love? THAT is effing sexism man. As long as you have it in your head that "guy things" are being strong and sports and "girl things" are love and princesses, you're going to be not much help in the discussion. Guys are interested in love. Women are interested in being heroic and important. So no, her choice for love or not love is not a positive or negative right off the bat. It's how the situation develops and what comes of it. If she retains her agency and whatnot, love is well fine. If she's a "brave hero warrior" before and a "loving mother" afterwards, even that COULD be fine. But it certainly has a stink to it just from the periphery.
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stageninja
Posted: Apr 6 2012, 11:38 AM
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In comment to media where men are portrayed as one-dimensional figures with no outside motivation, I can think of two examples immediately.

Sidney Bristow's handler in the Alias tv series
And the guy from Enchanted

It goes to show how emotionally invested I got in these characters when I can't even remember their names. Although an amusing novelty (dudes in distress who have little discernable personality outside of their attachment to their love interest), I don't think it makes for a better story.

On anachronisms, I would add that there are instances when an anachronism stew can be applied effectively. Batman: The Animated Series comes to mind with the gender views of the 90s but cars and clothes that resembled earlier time periods.

However, being a fictitious place lent itself to that, much the way fantasy movies do, I think.
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-sam
Posted: Apr 6 2012, 12:36 PM
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QUOTE (stageninja @ Apr 6 2012, 12:38 PM)
Sidney Bristow's handler in the Alias tv series

Vaughn, though later revealed to actually be named Alain Vignault or some such shit, I lost track of the show in the last season.

Still kinda blows my mind that Bradley Cooper was the dorky platonic friend in that.
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Kegluneq
Posted: Aug 28 2012, 10:48 AM
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So, saw the film yesterday. It was pretty enjoyable - not at the same level of depth or originality as Toy Story, Wall-E, Up, or Ratatouille, but still better than Cars. As expected there were quite a lot of generic 'Celtic' nods in the art design (and a hefty dose of Princess Mononoke), but despite my earlier grousing it did actually work very well. The core cast (Merida and her parents) are well written, and support a surprisingly large number of 'mute' characters.

I don't imagine it'll get a sequel, but I think there's room for the setting to develop if it did (as well as an extended cast who play minor roles here). Not only does it show that Pixar can do female protagonists, but also that they can do non-American leads as well.
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