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> Junpei's Japanese
Moom
Posted: Dec 1 2004, 09:32 AM
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It might just be me, but from the latest strips, it seems Junpei's Japanese is rather poor, as the translated version seems to have bad grammar reminiscent of his English. Is this intentional (to perhaps show a transformation in him), or has it always been like that?

A similar situation applies for the Ninja Master, but that's not really that noticeable.
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codepoetica
Posted: Dec 1 2004, 09:40 AM
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I'd suspect it's more a continuation of the "all ninjas speak movie-ninja-ese" running joke.

You do have the entirety of the comic strip archives available to you: It would be very easy to analyse any changes in his speach patterns over time.
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Philweasel
Posted: Dec 1 2004, 09:42 AM
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According to Sabyr it's 'racist' tongue.gif

This post has been edited by Philweasel on Dec 1 2004, 09:43 AM
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reblekid2003
Posted: Dec 1 2004, 10:32 AM
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you insult not n1nj4 speech of junpei

n1nj4 speech developed for meditative purposes

::shakes self out of stupor:: woah! ohmy.gif well i at least heard of it.

more later
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SpyderGreywolf
Posted: Dec 1 2004, 11:26 AM
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Pssh. Like any small group they've developed they're own 'slang' way of talking, that just happens to sound like they don't have a full mastery of the language. It's the ninja equivalent of L337-5p34k.

I maintain that it is not lack of knowledge, but merely succinct.
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Roman
Posted: Dec 1 2004, 11:30 AM
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QUOTE (SpyderGreywolf @ Dec 1 2004, 11:26 AM)
I maintain that it is not lack of knowledge, but merely succinct.

Or they just want people to think they are stupid so they sub estimate them.

Another option will be that this is done so they can be easily identified.
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SpyderGreywolf
Posted: Dec 1 2004, 11:32 AM
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QUOTE (Roman @ Dec 1 2004, 11:30 AM)
Another option will be that this is done so they can be easily identified.

Like a "Don't f33d tha Ninja" sign? huh.gif
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Roman
Posted: Dec 1 2004, 11:37 AM
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If they talk the in the same way people recognize them as ninjas. Wild theory anyway.
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Vexx
Posted: Dec 1 2004, 11:50 AM
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QUOTE (Philweasel @ Dec 1 2004, 09:42 AM)
According to Sabyr it's 'racist'  tongue.gif

Personally, I label it as "Yoda-esque" in a backward flip of reference, chronology, and continuity. One of the first few episodes of Love Hina features Motoko at kendo camp -- its done in a 1930s film technique (grainy and lots of film damage) and, of course, Motoko has a very formal, stilted form of speech (both in Japanese and in English I'm told). I refer to Blazing Saddles (co-written by Richard Pryor and starring Cleavon Little) before I label any sort of humor as "racist" these days... poking fun at stereotypes and the people who take them seriously. Intent is hard to adjudicate and I'm seriously tired of the P.C. nazis (as well as the moralizing provincial morons infesting the other side of the aisle). Not implying anyone here... I'm just encountering it way too much in real life lately...

I would also note that when you translate languages word for word with no adjustments for syntax differences, you get some fairly Yoda-esque results (even in European languages).

This post has been edited by Vexx on Dec 1 2004, 12:39 PM
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SpyderGreywolf
Posted: Dec 1 2004, 11:50 AM
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I guess, although that's kinda like wearing a shirt that says 'I am a ninja'. Positive Ph34r Phactor, but then again, doesn't that kinda defeat the teachings of ninjitsu? I mean, isn't it all about keeping people OFF their guard?
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Roman
Posted: Dec 1 2004, 12:14 PM
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QUOTE (Vexx @ Dec 1 2004, 11:50 AM)
...before I label any sort of humor as "racist" these days... poking fun at stereotypes and the people who take them seriously.

I think that Sabyr and Philweasel are joking.

QUOTE
I'm seriously tired of the P.C. nazis (as well as the moralizing provincial morons infesting the other side of the aisle).

Sometimes they go to stupid levels, so P.C. nazis is a good description. Me like it. happy.gif

SpyderGreywolf: I think is one of those things that come before there was a real story on MT. From the comments of Fred on the first book (I do not have it with me) Jumpei wasn't intended to be a regular character. He returned because Fred considered him too cool to not be used.

So, he was really a one time joke, as the form he speeks. dry.gif

Fred mentions that he wanted to keep some level of realism and having Largo defeat a ninja in Mortal Kombat forced him to change that. (Rodney influence here).

Anyway, ninj4 talk rules. ninjanatsD.gif

This post has been edited by Roman on Dec 1 2004, 12:17 PM
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ravenskye
Posted: Dec 1 2004, 01:30 PM
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QUOTE (Roman @ Dec 1 2004, 06:14 PM)
Anyway, ninj4 talk rules.

I'll second that. It dosen't really matter how he talks, I don't
think any of the character in megatokyo would try to correct him
or make fun of him.
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Roman
Posted: Dec 1 2004, 01:32 PM
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Or dare to make fun of him. ninjanatsD.gif
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MoneyMan
Posted: Dec 1 2004, 01:37 PM
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Yoda Junpei is not. Yoda vowel at end places, therefore German Yoda is.

Junpei speak quick. Important when Junpei speak, so Grammar is distraction. Junpei understandable, what is problem?
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richvh
Posted: Dec 1 2004, 02:27 PM
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QUOTE (MoneyMan @ Dec 1 2004, 02:37 PM)
Yoda Junpei is not. Yoda vowel at end places, therefore German Yoda is.

I think you meant verb there, not vowel. Latin and Japanese also the verb at the end places, so Yoda necessarily German is not.
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MoneyMan
Posted: Dec 1 2004, 02:34 PM
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You're quite right. My bad for typing too fast.

Actually, Latin places the verb wherever the hell it likes. Trust me, I had to do that one at school. What we determine by word position they determine by putting -um or similar at the end of the word.
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Dark Morford
Posted: Dec 1 2004, 02:38 PM
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QUOTE (richvh @ Dec 1 2004, 02:27 PM)
I think you meant verb there, not vowel.  Latin and Japanese also the verb at the end places, so Yoda necessarily German is not.

Maybe Yoda Japanese is?

[EDIT]
QUOTE (HamHam)
Shouldn't it be:

Maybe Japanese Yoda is?
A point you have.[/EDIT]

This post has been edited by Dark Morford on Dec 1 2004, 02:50 PM
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takai
Posted: Dec 1 2004, 02:42 PM
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QUOTE (SpyderGreywolf @ Dec 1 2004, 05:50 PM)
I guess, although that's kinda like wearing a shirt that says 'I am a ninja'.

laugh.gif If you look a the current strip Junpei is actually wearing a Ninj4 hoodie.
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richvh
Posted: Dec 1 2004, 02:42 PM
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QUOTE (MoneyMan @ Dec 1 2004, 03:34 PM)
Actually, Latin places the verb wherever the hell it likes. Trust me, I had to do that one at school. What we determine by word position they determine by putting -um or similar at the end of the word.

Well, yes, the verb can be placed anywhere in Latin (especially in poetry, where it's put wherever it fits the meter), but in formal prose, it tends to be at the end of the clause. I took 3 years in high school and a semester of poetry in college.
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Ray Kremer
Posted: Dec 1 2004, 02:47 PM
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Okay, this is going on the drinking game now.

...not that any of you will be able to see it until and unless my web hosting fixes my site. sad.gif
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HamHam
Posted: Dec 1 2004, 02:48 PM
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QUOTE (Dark Morford @ Dec 1 2004, 02:38 PM)
Maybe Yoda Japanese is?

Shouldn't it be:

Maybe Japanese Yoda is?
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SpyderGreywolf
Posted: Dec 1 2004, 02:50 PM
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QUOTE (takai @ Dec 1 2004, 02:42 PM)
laugh.gif If you look a the current strip Junpei is actually wearing a Ninj4 hoodie.

Muhahaha biggrin.gif I guess that's the joke, like the old 'What videogames teach us' list item "Ninjas are common and frequently fight in public".

On Yoda, it's been said that Yoda's speech isn't backwards, it's 'proper', a call to the past. In the trilogy, Yoda upholds the past, is sort of a symbol for it.

Least that's what it says in the DVD bonus section happy.gif

This post has been edited by SpyderGreywolf on Dec 1 2004, 02:52 PM
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Vexx
Posted: Dec 1 2004, 05:40 PM
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QUOTE (SpyderGreywolf @ Dec 1 2004, 02:50 PM)
Muhahaha biggrin.gif I guess that's the joke, like the old 'What videogames teach us' list item "Ninjas are common and frequently fight in public".

On Yoda, it's been said that Yoda's speech isn't backwards, it's 'proper', a call to the past. In the trilogy, Yoda upholds the past, is sort of a symbol for it.

Least that's what it says in the DVD bonus section happy.gif

As several implied above... Yoda's syntax is closer to German and related Indo-european languages. I was just using him as a handy reference for the "babelfish" effect of literal translation.

I also rather like the simplicity of the "ninja battle language" idea -- no extraneous or superfluous words used to pretty up the sentences. tongue.gif
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mong00se
Posted: Dec 1 2004, 05:59 PM
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QUOTE (richvh @ Dec 1 2004, 02:42 PM)
Well, yes, the verb can be placed anywhere in Latin (especially in poetry, where it's put wherever it fits the meter), but in formal prose, it tends to be at the end of the clause.  I took 3 years in high school and a semester of poetry in college.

concur with richvh...took three years high school level, and am on third semester college level. Greek has a similar thing going on, but quite as much as the classical Latin prose style. The ideal for say, cicero, was to build up a nice-sized sentence, with subordinate clauses galore, and then at the end put in your main verb that made everything fit together.

back to topic...

personally i think its a continuation of the whole running 'ninja speak broken japanese' joke, and very much it enjoy. *shakes head* must...speak...english...
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hikaru99
Posted: Dec 1 2004, 07:18 PM
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I think all of you are missing the point that it's not broken Japanese but rather English. It's somewhat like a tourist trying to translate a foreign language using a pocket guide.
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