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> Kodansha!, Megatokyo to be published in Japan
TNT
Posted: Jul 11 2007, 12:49 AM
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QUOTE (shadowinthelight @ Jul 10 2007, 08:14 PM)
Hopefully the greater Japanese readership will find his interpretation of Tokyo acceptable.

We had to swallow their "interpretations" of pretty much the whole world for decades, they really can't complain now tongue.gif tongue.gif

And by the way, I know that I am an horrible person and stuff, but when you read this in the press release
QUOTE
"I'm looking forward to seeing how Japanese readers will read Megatokyo,” said Kodansha editor Katsushi Ohta. “On the release day I want to go to Akihabara and observe how people will pick up the book in the stores, see what comments they might have."

didn't any one of you think about Dom? I mean the comic book Dom... wink.gif

QUOTE
There is a style known as "Breaker Speak" in Japanese, where a character that looks like it is made up from two other ones is broken into its separate components. For example, the kanji for "motion" looks like the kanji for "heavy" combined with the kanji for "power". This is rather similar to breaking down a Roman letter into symbols that look like its individual strokes, such as |2 or \/\/. This style is often used for fun or to look "cool" online or in text messaging, similar to how Americans would use l33tsp34k.

You mean like Winner from Karin?
Oh boy, then he really was a poor imitation of Largo... biggrin.gif

QUOTE
Largo: Very blunt, rough speech. Refers to himself with "ore", and almost never uses keigo ("polite" speech patterns normally used to address most people of superior status).

That's when he is in "casual" mode. For "l33t m4st3r" mode... how did Sousuke Sagara speak in the original dub?
And for casual speech, I think that a comparison with Basara Nekki could make sense wink.gif

This post has been edited by TNT on Jul 11 2007, 01:17 AM
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CrackPr0n-EET-
Posted: Jul 11 2007, 01:10 AM
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QUOTE (Ijuin @ Jul 10 2007, 10:03 PM)
There is a style known as "Breaker Speak" in Japanese, where a character that looks like it is made up from two other ones is broken into its separate components. For example, the kanji for "motion" looks like the kanji for "heavy" combined with the kanji for "power". This is rather similar to breaking down a Roman letter into symbols that look like its individual strokes, such as |2 or \/\/. This style is often used for fun or to look "cool" online or in text messaging, similar to how Americans would use l33tsp34k.

You translate for a living... ... ... your JP and translation skill isn't very good from what I can see based on what you posted here.

If you read the other thread, I've already addressed a good amount of this. Breaking up kanji into parts is rather common, but to be honest, girls use it more than guys do. Even amongst the male population that does it, it's not so much for the reason you state. Really 100% honest, there is nothing like "leet" in Japanese. Purposes and usages are so different... and frankly


... .... ...

ONLY STUPID FUCKING RETARDS STILL USE LEET IN AMERICA.

It's a dead tool. Only wannabe kids use it now to think they're some kind of special because they hear about it. But that's besides the point.

Usage of "break" was what I was talking about wasn't I? It carries a purpose of differentiation. If you watch someone who uses "break" they don't break up all kanji every time. It's specific to what they "break" within conversation. The people that usually "break" every single one are wannabe idiots(much like the kids that still use leet today).

QUOTE
They may simply leave the brackets as-is. What I would do if it were me is to reverse the use of brackets so that they indicate English usage (since Japanese would be "normal" and English would be "foreign").

Why? You could just use katakana English for the English parts, or even just use actual English, with the katakana above it. Sure, a lot of people would have to look it up, but really... English isn't used all too often outside of when Largo is there, and *gasp* it'd actually help people learn? Even though they might have trouble, most of them will be able to read romanji, and if not the tiny katakana could help them read and look up what they need to. Of course, this is only how *I* would go about doing it, the Japanese can decide to do whatever the hell they want.

QUOTE

Japanese already use renta-kaa (rent-a-car) for rental cars, so I would expect to see "renta-gojira".

"Rental" is a word that most JP would understand. But... here's the thing... when you localize, translation isn't always exact... and changed to reflect something that the locale will understand. They will use the JP equivalent... since there is a large joke within this name... they will(should) translate it into a joke.

QUOTE
Maybe, but given that Junpei would be clearly shown to be speaking to Largo in ENGLISH, it could simply be that they would want to emphasize that his English is not so good. Archaic speech when he is speaking Japanese would be appropriate though. As for what Junpei would refer to Largo as, "Eriito Shishou" (a translation of "Elite/Leet Master", in the same sense as a martial arts master) seems appropriate to me.

Or... they can do what I said earlier, and just use broken English... like he actually does. If anything, they would use an equivalent based on popular online conversations. I personally would use "VIP star". No I don't want to explain that, as if you've followed what I've been saying in earlier posts, you'd understand.

QUOTE
Largo: Very blunt, rough speech. Refers to himself with "ore", and almost never uses keigo ("polite" speech patterns normally used to address most people of superior status).


But Largo doesn't speak like that in English. He's blunt, but he's not rude. Though... *MOST* people refer to themselves as "ore" unless you're faggy and feminine. You act as if the usage of "ore" is rude in some way. It's just "not polite". He speaks like your average American, not polite, but he's not an asshole. By changing his speech "rough" he'd sound like a yankee(not the US definition)... and he's not one at all.

QUOTE
Piro: Very yowaki ("weak-willed")--uses highly non-assertive speech. May use the occasional feminine-sounding expression. Refers to himself with "boku", and would speak to almost all Japanese characters except for Ping using the more formal -masu verb forms.

Well, he'd use feminine speech, but you need to keep in mind, how Piro learned Japaense(which iirc is explained in the comic). He'd speak as if he was the main chara out of a galge.

QUOTE
Kimiko: Standard soft-spoken feminine style with an average degree of formality. Refers to self with "watashi".

That doesn't make sense to me. Kimiko is a very assertive girl. She acts tough and strong, but at the same time... she's A JAPANESE GIRL. She would speak... LIKE A JAPANESE GIRL. To be honest, I don't even understand why you list the Japanese characters, as they are Japanese... and would speak like counterparts in Japanese.

QUOTE
Erika: "Tough girl" style. Refers to herself with "atashi" instead of "watashi". Uses casual verb endings when talking to just about all of the main cast except Ed/Dom and the high school girls.

Erika is very intelligent. She knows how to speak and be articulate. Why would she be anything else? She knows when to use which for of speech. She's older than a lot of the older girls, so she will speak like she's older to them, and when speaking to a peer, she will speak like a peer. This is... just retarded to think otherwise.

QUOTE
Ed: Similar to Largo, but a little more condescending. Downright contemptful of most strangers. Refers to himself with "ore".

Seriously... this "refers to himself" crap is fucking annoying. People refer to themselves differently according to situation. Speech patterns change, EVEN IN ENGLISH according to situation. Ed's speech pattern is very often sarcastic, so at times, realistically for an equivalent, Keigo would be very present.

I've wasted enough time explaining other characters so I won't bother... but..

QUOTE

Miho: To most people she would have a fairly standard reserved introverted teenaged girl tone. To people that she wants to impress/intimidate (Largo, Piro, Dom, Ed, etc.), she would adopt a slight "high class lady" dialect (slightly overdone politeness, false humility hinting at restrained power, etc.).

No. Not only is this a misinterpretation of character(not that this isn't common in SD) but it is nothing like how she would speak at all. She would lose the formalities with most characters(in terms of age and status) but there wouldn't be much strange with her speech. Miho sees herself as peers to everyone, despite age. She doesn't see herself as better, nor worse...

I hope to god you really aren't a translator, and if you are... where are you a translator at? I'm morbidly curious. All of the types of characters are common in Japan(for the JP characters) so there is no reason for them to be anything but "normal". Miho acting like an oujo-sama would destroy her credibility as a character etc. etc. etc.

The entire leet thing as well. You don't really seem to grasp how people communicate online as well.

This post has been edited by CrackPr0n-EET- on Jul 11 2007, 01:21 AM
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Roman
Posted: Jul 11 2007, 09:47 AM
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Will be interesting to see some Japanese, that know English off course, posting here after reading the comic.
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Ray Kremer
Posted: Jul 11 2007, 11:50 AM
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Heh, of course being SD you people jumped straight to picking apart the possible translation issues. No doubt the people actually working on this are waaaaay ahead of you.
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Patty Acer
Posted: Jul 11 2007, 12:55 PM
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QUOTE (Ray Kremer @ Jul 11 2007, 11:50 AM)
Heh, of course being SD you people jumped straight to picking apart the possible translation issues. No doubt the people actually working on this are waaaaay ahead of you.

Actually, I'm more wondering whether Kodansha has asked Fred to re-draw the early pages to make the art more consistent with what it is now.
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TNT
Posted: Jul 11 2007, 01:10 PM
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QUOTE (Patty Acer @ Jul 11 2007, 07:55 PM)
Actually, I'm more wondering whether Kodansha has asked Fred to re-draw the early pages to make the art more consistent with what it is now.

Hey, that's Hagiwara level, Fred is not there yet tongue.gif

QUOTE
Heh, of course being SD you people jumped straight to picking apart the possible translation issues. No doubt the people actually working on this are waaaaay ahead of you.

I guess they are (Even if I trust a Japanese company translating from English even less than I trust European companies translating from Japanese tongue.gif tongue.gif ) But you know, this could actually be a much more interesting topic to discuss and a much more informative read than the usual SD fare, if knowledgeable people participated.

Hell, the translators might even show up here: just now I'm posting on an Italian forum in a thread with one of the leading Italian anime translators and dub directors (the guy who did our version of Evangelion, the Ghibli movies and alot other stuff). He's not exactly a celebrity among that community, but he's having a good time, getting some reasonable (if sometimes blunt) critique, responding to it and generally telling a lot of interesting things. Some of us made some pretty wild statements, they got serenely corrected, we all learned quite a bit.

Of course, he's the kind of guy who actually listens to the people he talks to and doesn't just go "I'M A PROFESSIONAL SO SHUT UP, YOU DON'T KNOW SHIT!!!!"
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Philweasel
Posted: Jul 11 2007, 01:42 PM
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You know what, fuck Crack! Rise up SD, fight for your right to cheerfully discuss shit you know nothing about! Hell, I work in local government and I know people who have forged whole CAREERS out of it!

Hell's bells, at least pretending to talk about translation is intellectually stimulating. I'm sitting here watching reality TV and cursing my miserable existence.

This post has been edited by Philweasel on Jul 11 2007, 01:43 PM
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open_sketchbook
Posted: Jul 11 2007, 02:58 PM
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Hate to be the devil's advocate here, but from what I understand of Japan, this simply will not sell. Remember that due to Japan's isolation and fairly ethnically similar culture, Japan has developed what is sometimes referred to as "the world's politest racism". Most Japanese people look down on the rest of the world with a mixture of pity and disgust, masked behind a polite exterior. This isn't fairytale Japan, people, this is the simple fact that upon seeing an American name on a piece of manga, it will be an immediate laughing point. They will just see it as some pathetic westerner trying to emulate them, laugh, and put it back on the shelves. Sorry, it's the truth. Japanese people are convinced of their superiority and will not appreciate seeing their medium coming back to them with a foreign name on it.
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pixiebell
Posted: Jul 11 2007, 03:16 PM
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QUOTE (open_sketchbook @ Jul 12 2007, 05:58 AM)
Japanese people are convinced of their superiority and will not appreciate seeing their medium coming back to them with a foreign name on it.

While I would be inclined to agree to some extent, this wouldn't explain why the Powerpuff Girls are immensely popular here in Japan. The Powerpuff Girls clearly are rather anime/manga-influenced and were popular enough to get their own Japan animated series.

I'm not saying one way or another whether MT would do well or not here, but if it's entertaining enough, people don't care what style it's drawn in. On top of that, American entertainment sells really well here.

When Fred was at Anime Expo Tokyo (I had flown with him to the show, though he barely saw me the entire time), some of the college student volunteers for the event got in line for a sketch. I asked them if they had heard of Megatokyo. They said no, but that they thought his art was cute. I don't think it bothered them in the least that Fred was drawing "manga-style."

Quite frankly, I don't think people here really are conscious of "manga-style" like foreigners are, because there isn't really one style of drawing comics here. In fact, I think many foreign anime fans tend to look down on foreigner "manga-style" artists more than Japanese do. Fred's worst critics aren't going to be Japanese; they're going to be people from his own country.
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Piro
Posted: Jul 11 2007, 03:19 PM
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QUOTE (open_sketchbook @ Jul 11 2007, 03:58 PM)
Hate to be the devil's advocate here, but from what I understand of Japan, this simply will not sell. Remember that due to Japan's isolation and fairly ethnically similar culture, Japan has developed what is sometimes referred to as "the world's politest racism". Most Japanese people look down on the rest of the world with a mixture of pity and disgust, masked behind a polite exterior. This isn't fairytale Japan, people, this is the simple fact that upon seeing an American name on a piece of manga, it will be an immediate laughing point. They will just see it as some pathetic westerner trying to emulate them, laugh, and put it back on the shelves. Sorry, it's the truth. Japanese people are convinced of their superiority and will not appreciate seeing their medium coming back to them with a foreign name on it.



don't generalize so much. You forget that the Japanese consume a hella lot more of our media than we do of thiers, percentage wise. Anime is a niche market here, lots and lots of our stuff ends up there and they don't bat an eye at it.

I've actually faced this 'racism' you've talked about. Many years ago i had an experience that put that feeling in the pit of my stomach that i think is rare for a blond white guy to experience. I won't go into details, because i really don't like talking about it, it makes you question yourself in ways that are not fun.

As for how it will be received, i'm always amazed at how closed minded most people think the Japanese are. Sure, they can be brutal, especially in online situations, and if MT makes any sort of blip at all in the Japanese market, i'm sure that there will be incredibly virulent denouncements about it. That's fine, i know all about it. But to give a blanket statement that it 'wont sell' or will simply be laughed at, i think is a bit off the mark.

When they asked me about publishing MT in japan, my first and biggest worry was that my earlier art was really not up to the level of detail and quality that it is now (not that i still don't have leagues to go, but at least its pretty decent these days). I was really worried about making a bad first impression. I still am. I told them that maybe we should look at compressing the first few books, combine things and cut out as much as we could so we could get to the 'better' material. The editors considered this idea, but decided that Japanese readers would enjoy the book as a whole, the same way the rest of the world gets it. They particularly like the commentary at the bottom of the comics.

In the publishing industry in Japan, editors have a lot of sway. The reason MT is getting published there is not because I or DC or DH pushed it and marketed it there, but because this editor, Ohta-san, wanted to. He and his team (and i've talked at length with the translator) really feel that readers will like it, and they aren't just saying this, they've chosen to publish it - and PROMOTE it mind you. Would they do that if they thought people would just laugh?

In the end, Japanese readers might not like it. That's fine, i'll be totally fine if they do. I would never force my work upon anyone. I got an email from a Japanese reader last year who was amazed at my insight into japanese culture. Not that i got everything right, but that it was not that stereotyped way that the japanese feel westerners look at thier country. They laugh because more often than not, 'japan' is a stereotype in western media. The translator was quite fascinated with the things that influenced me as MT went along. I gave her a lot of info that i dont tell readers, specifics on where influences came from, the manner of thought and character personalities from this manga or that anime. It had been a long time since she'd watched some of these things or read them, and actually had to rent some old anime series to see where i was coming from. The mix of it all is, i think, pretty interesting. You need to give japanese readers more credit for catching american humor than you do. After all, we're the ones who have only been exposed to their media recently. They've been parsing hollywood and everything else for much longer.

At least, that's my thoughts on it all. I could be wrong, they might laugh, but then i often think that most people laugh at people who do comics for a living smile.gif

(please forgive the unedited nature of the above - typing quick, and i have to get back to work) smile.gif

fred
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open_sketchbook
Posted: Jul 11 2007, 03:21 PM
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I always knew that the idiot American otaku that say that it can't be manga because a Japanese person didn't write it will be the worst. I don't imagine Japanese people hating MT, just ignoring it on the basis of it's artist's nationality and disliking having to figure out American culture jokes.

EDIT : Holy crap Fred replied. I can't really disagree with what you say, but I still harbor a lot of doubts that MT will work in Japan. I know the Japanese consume a lot of our pop culture, but typically it's culture they themselves can't do better (Even Japanese people say Japanese television is bad, and Japanese movies aren't terrible good either, for the most part)

This post has been edited by open_sketchbook on Jul 11 2007, 03:28 PM
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Piro
Posted: Jul 11 2007, 03:24 PM
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QUOTE (open_sketchbook @ Jul 11 2007, 04:21 PM)
I always knew that. Those idiot American otaku that say that it can't be manga because a Japanese person didn't write it will always be the worst. I don't imagine Japanese people hating MT, just ignoring it on the basis of it's artist's nationality and disliking having to figure out American culture jokes.

Yep, that might happen, but then again, who knows? The Faust/KB people dont seem to be worried about how it will be received at all.

When i did 'envelope' years ago, the response i got from a lot of the other creators in that compliation, and others who picked it up was that they were amazed that an american could capture a bit of the essesnce of the True Love Story game like that. I'm not a miracle worker, but i try to put into my work some of the subtle stuff i love in manga, which sometimes turns out to be the same stuff that the japanese readers like. That being said, maybe they might give me a chance the same way american readers did (remember, it wasnt long ago that no one would give an 'american' manga the time of day because by default they all suck).

Things change, who knows?

fred
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Posted: Jul 11 2007, 03:30 PM
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QUOTE (Piro @ Jul 11 2007, 03:24 PM)

Things change, who knows?

whether it sells well or not, it's a damn fine accomplishment.
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CrackPr0n-EET-
Posted: Jul 11 2007, 09:59 PM
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Not something I really enjoy admitting...

Megatokyo is sorta popular there in a niche market. I had a conversation with a friend of mine. My friend Kimihiko(who is nothing short of an otaku) came to the US for Anime Expo(he has for the past 4 years). The day he got here, we had some time to kill...

We went to Barnes and Noble and he was like "Ooh Megatokyo vol. 5" and I was like "... Kimihiko-san... why Megatokyo?" "Because it's American and it doesn't suck like every other American manga. It's kind of popular in Japan."

At this point... a shed a tear like the Native American when the guy littered in the street(LOL how many of you remember this).
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Grimchar
Posted: Jul 11 2007, 11:12 PM
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QUOTE (CrackPr0n-EET- @ Jul 11 2007, 08:59 PM)
At this point... a shed a tear like the Native American when the guy littered in the street(LOL how many of you remember this).
Thank you for jogging my failing memory. That dewy eyed Indian, or Native American if you prefer, was Iron Eyes Cody and probably more of us who read MT remember him than you might expect.
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PatheticEli
Posted: Jul 11 2007, 11:27 PM
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Successful or not, this is certainly an achievement, so congratulations on this.

I was on Anime News Network, and was pleasantly surprised to find that on the front page.

Goodluck!
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infidel
Posted: Jul 11 2007, 11:53 PM
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QUOTE (CrackPr0n-EET- @ Jul 11 2007, 09:59 PM)


At this point... a shed a tear like the Native American when the guy littered in the street(LOL how many of you remember this).

I lived in Oklahoma at the time this was big, and I never saw it played since I moved away, so I thought this was a local campaign. I guess not. Since I lived in OK, I used to even know the guy's name, but I needed the reference above since I had long forgotten it.
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Firestorm29
Posted: Jul 12 2007, 03:49 AM
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I sorta posted on this ealier on the popularaity post, but there are times that I can remember some of my Navy pals tuning in on the Japanese channels because they showed more recent episodes that the AFN network did. (lol)

I personally look forward to this as it's something American that isn't in the gansta or cowboy cord I seem to see quite a bit. I think that this will do fairly well. I feel bummed out that it looks like I won't be in Japan for the translated version to be released (my enlistment will be over before the books are relased it seems like... :/). I really would of loved to be there just to see the reactions of the Akihabara crowd when the books are sold on opening day.

I still think it's funny when I buy a untranslated version of an anime and get weird looks! biggrin.gif
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Kang Seung Jae
Posted: Jul 12 2007, 04:42 AM
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Congratulations!


It'll find a niche to fill in, if it doesn't reach a Haruhi-style epic popularity.
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Philweasel
Posted: Jul 12 2007, 08:11 AM
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Hey, look at it this way. Even if it fails, the games Yakuza and Rule of Rose sold like crap in America yet managed to both find their way onto my favourite list (RoR gave my me avatar)
If they had never been released I would have missed out on that sad.gif
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Piro
Posted: Jul 12 2007, 10:15 AM
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QUOTE (CrackPr0n-EET- @ Jul 11 2007, 10:59 PM)
At this point... a shed a tear like the Native American when the guy littered in the street(LOL how many of you remember this).

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!

(sheds a tear of his own, tho that's from the mental picture of the camera zooming in on a tear in crack's eye as he laments the brutal sadness of the world.)

Dude, i feel for you. I honestly do. I'm sorry.

tongue.gif

fredrin
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Posted: Jul 12 2007, 10:22 AM
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Posted: Jul 12 2007, 10:44 AM
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Posted: Jul 12 2007, 10:47 AM
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QUOTE (Piro @ Jul 11 2007, 03:24 PM)
When i did 'envelope' years ago, the response i got from a lot of the other creators in that compilation, and others who picked it up was that they were amazed that an american could capture a bit of the essence of the True Love Story game like that. I'm not a miracle worker, but i try to put into my work some of the subtle stuff i love in manga, which sometimes turns out to be the same stuff that the japanese readers like. That being said, maybe they might give me a chance the same way american readers did (remember, it wasn't long ago that no one would give an 'american' manga the time of day because by default they all suck).

fred

Fred, I'm going to echo something others have said before. You are your own worse critic. (Of course, it's something I've noticed in a large number of webcartoonists, including myself... though in my case it was justified.)

You are a talented writer and artist. However, part of the reason you're talented is because you've invested time and effort in manga, anime, and the like. Just as a good writer is one who reads a lot, your own talent is partly due to your interests in these venues. This is why "Envelope" turned out as well as it did... because your own interests and involuntary research came in handy for this venture.

So what if your artwork isn't perfect, or if dialog doesn't always flow just right? You're striving to improve, and that's the important thing. You care about the artwork, and it shows in how your characters come to life. Besides, perfection is a bore. It's the little imperfections that make life so interesting.
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Posted: Jul 12 2007, 12:28 PM
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QUOTE (Piro @ Jul 11 2007, 04:19 PM)
The translator was quite fascinated with the things that influenced me as MT went along.  I gave her a lot of info that i dont tell readers, specifics on where influences came from, the manner of thought and character personalities from this manga or that anime.

OOOooo. user posted image

QUOTE (Cortana @ Jul 12 2007, 11:44 AM)
http://omoikane.net/public/cortana/crying-mikey.jpg

EPIC WIN
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