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> Grumble Grumble... - Drawing And Erasing, an update on 'friday's' comic
Piro
Posted: Jan 19 2007, 12:00 PM
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Hey folks,

As you may have noticed, i'm not quite as 'ahead' on comic production as i had planned to be at this point. Things are ok for the book so far, it's required a lot more work than i figured (of course) and that other thing i am STILL waiting on the OK to give you folks the news has come to life again and i've had to add that to the work pile... bleah, no rest for the angsty, i guess. smile.gif On the surface it seems kinda same old same old, but i figured i'd take a moment and grumble a little about this current comic, just beause i can.

Before i do, please, i don't need any 'you're doing great!' "don't worry about it, take your time!' etc, etc, type responses. I know that most of you folks are happy enough with the comic right now, and the few missed comics recently weren't that big a deal. THe skewed posting times has really been the only problem in recent months (part of this has to do with having a thuroughly messed up internal clock). My reading of everyone, from SD to fans in general is that people are happy with the comic, happy with this chapter and where its going, and are not upset or frustrated with it any more than is just part of the nature of a comic released 3 times per week smile.gif

Biggest thing that has made me really push the post time on this comic off is that there are some things about this next comic that require the artwork to really communicate some things really clearly. Yes, i know i usually am pretty good at pulling this off. The way i do it is often to struggle with the drawings, drawing and erasing and tweaking and nudging over and over again until i get it right. Usually its just a frame or two thats a problem, and when i get it right, it feels good. For example, the comic one where Largo balks at piro and kimiko hugging, the 2nd, 3rd and 6th frames gave me a massive headache (2 and 6 look ok, 3 works for me, but is a little akward - but a good experiment.) Panel 7, where she holds up the mouse... that drawing just came right out without hardly any tweaking, erasing, retrys, and its the best most potent drawing of the set.

It's enough to tear your hair out sometimes. You have a vision of what you want to get on paper, sometimes not specifically, but you know the 'air' of what it is. To a certain extent you REALLY have to rely on a certain amount of inspiration to make things come out right. No amount of forcing can really make a drawing work, its more like you keep pushing at it till that little bit of inspiration sets in and the emotive side of your head throws out the right signals to the motor elements of your hand and viola, there it is. smile.gif

You also end up with this problem that comes from working a drawing too hard - you have stared at it so much that you cant see it anymore. I can't number the times where i thought i finally nailed a drawing, was tired, went to bed, woke up and went to finish up and went 'oh god, thats not right' tongue.gif

Last night there was a particularly important frame that i was half finished with, but for some reason i could not get it to work. This morning, i sat and tried working at it, and found myself drawing the same lines over and over again, erasing and drawing, erasing and drawing. Agh, frustrating. its like you can't find the point at where the lines need to be to get things right. The trick at a point like this is to back away from what you are trying to draw and look at the rest of the drawing and see if there is something there that is throwing off what you are having trouble with. For instance, if you have drawn the shoulders of a character in relation to another character that is drawin already and looks fine, you may find that the problem is the angle or the scale of the shoulders is wrong, or that you are tryng to make a character occupy a space that he or she is just not going to fit in. Sometimes (thankfully not for this frame) you find that you have to erase a half hours worth of work that looks fine just because you had your sense of space off. Sometimes, when it is really bad, you have to start over. (this is not as bad as you might think for doing the drawings on a full sheet - you just grab a 8x11 sheet of paper and do the frame seperately and place it in with photoshop later). I'm working with a little bit of that today.

Anyways, i can't gripe too specifically about this comic without giving things away (always a problem when i have to gripe about things). but i'm trying to maneuver some things here that is turning out to be a little difficult to really pin down right. It may not really work in the end, but if it does, it should be pretty nice.

The best thing i have going for me right now is that i have scripts for every comic for the rest of the chapter done. I've never been so many scripts ahead smile.gif It was actually a really good exersize, and is making the comic process much easier. This one is giving me fits because its a difficult one to pull off right. Thanks for your patience, i hope it comes out ok.

As for being able to finish comics in time for my end of month deadline - not doing well on that so far, i can't seem to get the processing time to actually produce them ahead of time. Sunday, Monday and Tuesday i was sick - nothing serious, but it really slowed me down. Feelng tons better, but that much more behind on things. When you have a tight schedule, any downtime can really throw you off bad. With some luck and some hard work i might just be able to push ahead a little over the weekend. I have a few weeks leeway, and i hope its enough to get it all done. I should be ok.

Oh, and this amused me when i realized it. The last comic for Chapter 8 will happen durring the week of Valentines day. I'm not about to let on if this is prophetic or ironic. smile.gif

ok, back to work.

fredrin
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SajuukCor
Posted: Jan 19 2007, 12:09 PM
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Nice rant on "Behind the Manga" deal. I swear maybe Discovery or VH1 can pick up a special on that or something, would be interesting to say the least tongue.gif Being sick sucks too, seems to be a stomach virus thing going around here. Weather isn't helping much too that as well.

Hmm, don't want the goodie good stuff about the work and comic. Um um... can't think of anything other than those! dry.gif

*thumbs up*

That work?

This post has been edited by SajuukCor on Jan 19 2007, 12:10 PM
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Unholydragoon
Posted: Jan 19 2007, 12:18 PM
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You are an evil, evil man Fred. Taunting us like that bout both todays comic AND the end of the chapter?

And Miho is supposed to be the EV1L 0/\/3?!?!?

Well, good luck getting the images to work out right. It's tough, especially when you already have the bare bones of a project (such as the script) done. Getting what you are envisioning out of her head and into another medium is difficult. Keep it up though. I have faith that you will deliver the same excellence as always.

This post has been edited by Unholydragoon on Jan 19 2007, 12:29 PM
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thethirdrider
Posted: Jan 19 2007, 12:24 PM
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i personally would prefer a better drawn or thought out comic to one posted precisely on time that you are unsatisfied with.

the quality of you work and attention to detail in both your art and story is what i care about, not your punctuality.

*seconds the thumbs up*

looking forward to valentines happy.gif
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Roman
Posted: Jan 19 2007, 12:29 PM
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QUOTE (Unholydragoon @ Jan 19 2007, 12:18 PM)
You are an evil, evil man Fred. Taunting us like that bout both todays comic AND the end of the chapter?

No kidding Unholydragoon.
QUOTE (Piro)
Oh, and this amused me when i realized it. The last comic for Chapter 8 will happen durring the week of Valentines day. I'm not about to let on if this is prophetic or ironic.  smile.gif

That may amuse you Fred, but is torture to us (just kidding tongue.gif)
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Master Chibi
Posted: Jan 19 2007, 12:38 PM
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QUOTE (Piro @ Jan 19 2007, 12:00 PM)
The last comic for Chapter 8 will happen durring the week of Valentines day. I'm not about to let on if this is prophetic or ironic. smile.gif

When I called you a crafty individual I sure as hell meant it, and this line just further proves it.

You can take all the time in the world that you want, but if you EVER tire of being the deity that shifts the Megatokyo world to his creative will, where it's simply more of a chore then it is passion, well at that point I'd urge you to cut your losses and be done with.

I know that's a bit negative, but regardless of that it's a joy to see you grow with this comic, figuring out things on your own and running with them, and what have you.

Anyways, GANBARE and all that Piro.

We'll be waiting.

emot-eng101.gif
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Kalium
Posted: Jan 19 2007, 12:46 PM
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QUOTE (Piro @ Jan 19 2007, 01:00 PM)
Oh, and this amused me when i realized it. The last comic for Chapter 8 will happen durring the week of Valentines day. I'm not about to let on if this is prophetic or ironic. smile.gif

Given that some of us (like me, *ahem*) find it appropriate to show Shingetsutan Tsukihime to our anime clubs on Valentine's Day, I'm going to go with ironic, but hope for prophetic.

Yes, that actually happened. Yes, I thought it was hilarious.

To change gears entirely, no plan of battle survives first contact with the enemy. The great enemy of all talespinners is the limits of their medium and the limits of their skill, and every story changes in the telling.
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Piro
Posted: Jan 19 2007, 12:58 PM
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QUOTE (Kalium @ Jan 19 2007, 01:46 PM)
To change gears entirely, no plan of battle survives first contact with the enemy. The great enemy of all talespinners is the limits of their medium and the limits of their skill, and every story changes in the telling.

For me at least, no script survives first contact with the drawings. smile.gif Its one of the things that makes MT good when its good, but it is infuriatingly frustating sometimes. tongue.gif

Good news is that the frame that was giving me the most trouble finally came together, and the heart and soul of this comic is starting to feel right. Karma, chii, whatever you wanna call it. there's a point at which things start to click, and i push to make that happen with every comic i do. I get depressed when i don't manage it, or when it's 'heart' is weak or missing.

Anyways, this should be ok, but i still have a bunch of drawings to do to finish it, but they are just follow thru, the heart of it is looking good. smile.gif If i didn't have to help sarah with International shipping today i could stay home and finish it, but we really have to get those packages out. Many of those poor folk have been waiting for them to ship.

Oh, one other thing that is coming up - we are looking for a new warehouse (lease is up in our current one soon) so we're facing a move in the coming months. Fun stuff!

fredrin
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simplexunlocked
Posted: Jan 19 2007, 12:59 PM
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I think youíre doing a grand job keeping things here alive, and flowing. I trying to do my own thing can see your point, not getting things right and doing it a million times over is something that can leave you cursing the heavens with anger ^^ , but eventually you will get it right and every one will love it. I donít think people mind waiting around for the megatokyo strips because in the end you make them worth it with all of your hard work you put into making everything look simply amazing. I wish I had even half as much talent as you. I mean you really inspire me to do my own thing and I just wish that one day I can be as successful as you have been. Just keep up the good work and give your fans like me something to shoot for and every thing will be good ^^.
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Keita-chan
Posted: Jan 19 2007, 01:26 PM
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QUOTE
...and that other thing i am STILL waiting on the OK to give you folks the news has come to life again and i've had to add that to the work pile...


Finally getting time to work on Warmth? I bet most of us would like to see that.

QUOTE
You have a vision of what you want to get on paper, sometimes not specifically, but you know the 'air' of what it is.


I think I understand what you're getting at here. You know what you want to do, but you can't make it work right. I think everyone has that problem at some point or another.
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Chun
Posted: Jan 19 2007, 01:34 PM
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QUOTE (Keita-chan @ Jan 19 2007, 11:26 AM)

Finally getting time to work on Warmth? I bet most of us would like to see that.

That's a second for my vote.

~Chun
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misadventuresofscottandmike
Posted: Jan 19 2007, 02:25 PM
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warmth??? wakes up....WARMTH!!!!! laugh.gif YAY THIRDED biggrin.gif happy.gif
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Kraco
Posted: Jan 19 2007, 02:27 PM
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I only sense Fred hasn't yet watched this week's Kanon episode, and that's subconsciously hampering his work.

I know it would hinder mine...
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McNigel
Posted: Jan 19 2007, 03:00 PM
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QUOTE (Piro @ Jan 19 2007, 12:58 PM)
Its one of the things that makes MT good when its good, but it is infuriatingly frustating sometimes. tongue.gif

As a friend o mine once said, when he was late delivering a lyric:
"Sometimes it can take all day, to make one word sing."
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BlackLiger
Posted: Jan 19 2007, 03:13 PM
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Fred, don't you mean Valentines/Singles Awareness day tongue.gif
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Shay Guy
Posted: Jan 19 2007, 04:54 PM
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Is the phrase "snakes on a plane" still being used in these kinds of situations?

In any case, of course the one that gets delayed 20+ hours is a Friday one. I wish we'd figure out this computers-and-Shabbat thing once and for all. Jewish law's enough to make your head spin. As for Valentine's Day, well, at least we know it's got some (unintended) significance.
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FreezingFire
Posted: Jan 19 2007, 07:10 PM
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Coming from an artistic family, I know what it's like to struggle over a piece in order to get it 'just right' (in fact, this is the third completely different draft of this post). My problem, however, is that the "artist gene" pretty much passed right over me, so nothing I do ever turns out 'just right'... I can only imagine what it's like to create fresh MT episodes three times a week (usually), every week for six years.

It makes me happy that you don't give us the first thing your hand puts to paper. It makes me happy that you strive to give us the best possible view of your vision that you can. Please continue, so we can continue striving to truly appreciate all your hard work.
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fireshark
Posted: Jan 19 2007, 09:28 PM
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Oh yeah, Kanon IS on Thursdays...

No wonder Fridays are always late tongue.gif

This post has been edited by fireshark on Jan 19 2007, 09:28 PM
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Riffster
Posted: Jan 19 2007, 10:06 PM
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Let's hear it for screwey internal clocks! I don't think I've been on a "normal" sleep schedule for several months. Ironically, I think my current winter cold (my family did the stomach flu thing at Thanksgiving) may be what gets me back to thinking of 1am as "late" rather than "primetime."

Given that you can't really go back and change too much once you've posted (though I do recall at least once when you squeezed an extra frame into a posted comic) I can certainly understand your desire for getting it right the first time, even if it does keep us all on tenterhooks until you get past your block!

Riffster
To my son: "I don't care what time it is: if I'm still up then it's too early for you to be awake!"
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Smart Dawg
Posted: Jan 19 2007, 10:38 PM
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I just can't wait to see which panel is giving you so much trouble. Hopefully we won't be able to tell tongue.gif

And because Fred might be looking at this thread whenever... Why is Piro "Member No. 4" as said below his avatar? This is like something I've wondered since...forever. omg wheres 1,2,3....agh...[/offtopic]
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Death the 14th
Posted: Jan 19 2007, 10:58 PM
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heh heh, my time is +10 hours, and yours is -5...

so I'm sitting there at 4pm... wondering where my strip is, and it says 2pm your time.

at 2am I was a little saddened to find it was further shifted to 11pm your time, that's when I decided to go to bed... after another 2 hours...

lol @ the valentines day coincedence
perhaps I should take a break from MT for a while and come back to recieve a whole bunch of MT joy, like when I started reading and found myself reading 900 comics in a night or two

*yawn* so yea, late night last night, and I blame YOU!!
jk... I don't really blame you... much
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Linkblade0
Posted: Jan 19 2007, 11:09 PM
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QUOTE (Death the 14th @ Jan 19 2007, 10:58 PM)
lol @ the valentines day coincedence
perhaps I should take a break from MT for a while and come back to recieve a whole bunch of MT joy, like when I started reading and found myself reading 900 comics in a night or two


Same thing happened with me but I only had to catch up with chapter 7&8 I read all the others in the books.... Wait, are you insane, I can hardly unglue myself from my computer since I got hooked, even when I tried to do what you suggested I failed miserably so dont even try it.
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smiley_kill
Posted: Jan 19 2007, 11:12 PM
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i can pretty much wait happy.gif
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Linkblade0
Posted: Jan 19 2007, 11:13 PM
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QUOTE (Master Chibi @ Jan 19 2007, 12:38 PM)
When I called you a crafty individual I sure as hell meant it, and this line just further proves it.

You can take all the time in the world that you want, but if you EVER tire of being the deity that shifts the Megatokyo world to his creative will

If you really think about it, Fred really has become a sort of deity. The kind that can make his subjects exstatic or miserable at the post of a message. So I close by saying that I want more my god. emot-eng101.gif
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Sareth
Posted: Jan 19 2007, 11:36 PM
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Exploitation Now had me convinced Poe was the most evil art god on the web. But that little comment about Valentines has me thinking Fred is far more evil because he's far more crafty at it...

laugh.gif

I hear you about the difficulty of drawing. I've been teaching myself how to draw for the last year (I suck. Heh.) Every so often I'll fight something for hours, finally think i got it right... and the next day wonder what i was thinking. So much fun...

Oh, and I'll be unemployed in anither couple months... You pay room, board, and dental for warehouse movers? wink.gif
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