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> Focus: [698] Something Old And Unopened, Is Miho trying to suggest something?
Izuko
Posted: Apr 17 2005, 12:57 AM
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Ok, there's been plenty of speculation on the "old" part of this, but I haven't seen much on the significance of "unopened" (though I will admit to blinking in and out of consciousness as I read the MDT, that's why I decided to do this as a Focus, so I could play it off as intentional and nobody would notice that I didn't fully do my homework. Pretty clever, neh? ^____^).

Now, it's obvious that, at face value, Miho mean the word to show Largo that she couldn't have tampered with the contents. However, is that the limit to their meaning? Is it only the bottle that is unopened? Often, something that hasn't been opened yet - undisturbed or unspoiled will be called "virgin," (ie, virgin wilderness).

One possiblity is that Miho is informing Largo of her sexual purity - possibly an invitation to him. This would fit her taunt to Piro that she may use herself to ease Largo's pain. However, I can't really see Miho being that crass. Perhaps, by unspoiled, she's telling him she's not tained by the undead (at least not yet).

Or, she could be comparing the bottle to Largo. He is the bottle, and she intends to spoil him... in either meaning.

It also may be that Miho is suggesting that she may be a bottle, ready to be opened by someone. If it's not Largo or Piro, it may be someone with less... nobel intentions. She's asking Largo to be the one.

And, of course, Largo could be the bottle; she wants him to become Alucard to her Integral.
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Rapierman
Posted: Apr 17 2005, 01:17 AM
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I see this as a truce of sorts. She wants him to trust her. We don't know why, though. This could go either way. Yes, this may be that "easing of pain" process that she thought about, but we can't say if she's sincere or putting up a front. We'll have to find out somewhere down the road.
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Moonstorm
Posted: Apr 17 2005, 01:44 AM
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Some of what you said may be true but Largo may have taken it anyway even if it wasn't open. What I think is more importent to focus on in the strip is when Largo saids "I will stand, or I will fall. I will not sit". He is not trying to be rude or anything he is saying "I will win, or I will lose. I will not give up.".
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Temenus
Posted: Apr 17 2005, 02:22 AM
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Okay, methinks this is going a bit too far, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Miho is just informing Largo that his drink is not contaminated and therefor safe to drink, if she gave him a draft beer Largo would just have accused her of poisoning it, with a bottle of beer he could have accused her of tampering it at the brewery.

Instead Miho is offering Largo a drink that was sealed in a bottle a minimum of twelve years ago (no new bottles made since 1993) and was aged in sealed casks for at least seventeen years before that, all of it in a country on the other side of the world making it highly improbable that she could have tampered with it.

It is all a part of keeping the initiative of the conversation, instead of waiting for Largo to accuse her os poisoning his drink and then being on the defensive by trying to deny it Miho is keeping the initiative by trying to alleviate his doubts before he even articulates them. Miho is showing that she has figured Largo out, I'm just worried about his left hand in panel six, that way of grabbing a bottle is for using it as a weapon, not for pouring a measure in a glass but perhaps Miho has anticipated this too.

/Temenus, who knows it's part of the posturing but still... waisting good northern highland single malt on a drunkard like Largo, it's almost a hanging offense...
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L33T N1NJ4
Posted: Apr 17 2005, 02:28 AM
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You guys give Fred too much credit.

This is like a song by Tripod I heard a while back analysing Waltzing Matilda.

The band Tripod consists of Yon, Scod and Gatesy. For the purposes of this illustration the whole band will be "T:", Yon will be "Y:", Gatesy will be "G:" and Scod will be "S:". Yon is interrupting the song as if it were normally sung, but paused when he, and others, butts in.

T: Once a Jolly swagman.
Y: That's Australian.
T: Camped by a billabong.
Y: The billabong of american culture.
T: Under the shade.
Y:... Shade.
T: Of a Coolabah tree.
Y: Now that could be any tree, really.
S: Oh, it's probably the world stage of global economy.
G: Wouldn't it just be, The Sun?
S: What? So the shade is a metafor for the sun?
G: Yeah...
T: And he sang as he watched and waited 'till his billy boiled,
S: So whats his billy? Hmmm
Y: (quietly) Oh shit, we shouldn't've tryed this.
G: A Kettle! A Billy is a kettle!
S: Yeah, but the billy represents the international sporting community.
Y: No the billy's just a prop, it's not relevant.
S: Oh, ok.
T: You'll come a waltzing matilda with me.
G: How can a guy, sing the song "Waltzing Matilda", while being in that song?
S: He's some sort of time traveller!
Y: He's some sort of strage dimensional vortex man!

And on and on it goes, simular to what you guys are doing.

I'm not saying what you're is a bad thing, but I'm sure you guys could be investing your time in better things. Seems like alot of energy being invested into somthing which I'm sure is quite a superficial scripting choice taken by Fred, which was little more than a way to descirbe an old bottle of unopened booze.

I'm not saying stop, I'm just saying think about this guys, you're all bright young individuals, does this comic really need any more analysis than it already has?

And just so you guys don't think I'm growing up or somthing, WORSHIP JUNPEI!!!!!11!
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hikaru99
Posted: Apr 17 2005, 02:33 AM
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Hmm...this song by Duran Duran describes Largo's current feelings.

Ordinary world

Came in from a rainy thursday on the avenue
Thought I heard you talking softly.
I turned on the lights, the tv and the radio
Still I can’t escape the ghost of you
What has happened to it all?
Crazy, some’d say,
Where is the life that I recognize?
Gone away...

But I won’t cry for yesterday, there’s an ordinary world,
Somehow I have to find.
And as I try to make my way, to the ordinary world...
I will learn to survive.

Passion or coincidence once prompted you to say
Pride will tear us both apart
Well now pride’s gone out the window cross the rooftops, run away,
Left me in the vacuum of my heart.
What is happening to me?
Crazy, some’d say,
Where is my friend when I need you most?
Gone away...
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Izuko
Posted: Apr 17 2005, 02:35 AM
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QUOTE (L33T N1NJ4 @ Apr 17 2005, 03:28 AM)
I'm not saying what you're is a bad thing, but I'm sure you guys could be investing your time in better things. Seems like alot of energy being invested into somthing which I'm sure is quite a superficial scripting choice taken by Fred, which was little more than a way to descirbe an old bottle of unopened booze.

I'm not saying stop, I'm just saying think about this guys, you're all bright young individuals, does this comic really need any more analysis than it already has?

And just so you guys don't think I'm growing up or somthing, WORSHIP JUNPEI!!!!!11!

Can we add this to the drinking game?

"Any time a holier-than-thou would-be killjoy tells us that we have better things to do with our time, without knowing what we're actually doing at the moment (ie if we're stuck at work in night shift, with jack shit to do, and too tired to work on our calculus but still wanting to stay awake so we don't get fired), then take a drink, finish off the bottle, have a l337 friend find his home address and go slit his throat with the broken bottle just before you jam it up his candy ass."

I'd like to see a rule like that.
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Terrytigre
Posted: Apr 17 2005, 07:03 AM
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The funny thing is, the bottle could still have been tampered with.

1) He picks it up, or at least tries to. If waltah is in cahoots, that means he knows where to touch it. Largo doesnt, and so grabs right into the contact poison.

Note: Ninjas still have a contract on him, so this isnt that farfeched at all. In historical times one of the ways ninjas used contact poison was on the grip of the katanas of their opponents, using some blister inducing agent. You cant fight very well if you cant handle your sword.

2) Using a small syringe a minute dose of something could have been injected.
Would take fairly specialized equipment to insure the hole was small enough not to be noticable, and would take a long time to actually inject more than a tiny dose.
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Dog Soldier
Posted: Apr 17 2005, 07:48 AM
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I see it as Miho going along with Largo's game. Erika violently rejected his PoV and his game. Now she's not really playing at being a Zombie Queen either as obviously there are no thousand year old bottles of Scotch. She's being gracious in her role as hostess while at the same time saying, "I know what you think, let's try to reach common ground."
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ph00tbag
Posted: Apr 17 2005, 08:40 AM
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Hey, stop reading my LJ and stealing my ideas.
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stsparky
Posted: Apr 17 2005, 09:40 AM
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QUOTE (Izuko @ Apr 16 2005, 10:57 PM)
Ok, there's been plenty of speculation on the "old" part of this, but I haven't seen much on the significance of "unopened" (though I will admit to blinking in and out of consciousness as I read the MDT, that's why I decided to do this as a Focus, so I could play it off as intentional and nobody would notice that I didn't fully do my homework.  Pretty clever, neh?  ^____^).  ... And, of course, Largo could be the bottle; she wants him to become Alucard to her Integral.

IF and ONLY IF: Miho throatedly mutters - "Take me now my prince, my fruit is ripe" after Largo bogarts the bottle. (it's a Richard Corben reference) ... I've no problem accepting the whole principal cast are virginal save for Erika who had a 'serious' relationship with Hitoshi. I'll even accept Junko is just an evil tease because it makes sense. Kimiko would be simply shy. Do you have to ask about Largo and Piro? Really?

The cluebat was "She's a good girl" in case you missed it in 0698.8; Unless you're "fast" - the magic number for Japanese girls is 18. So Miho is primed to go - as it were. - Sparky

PS We know she likes Largo. biggrin.gif
PPS WK? It isn't a violent rejection son, those require sawed off shotguns and the kinfolk. It was a test and Largo passed it. Give it some more thought and know you're projecting too much onto Erika. It seems 'dull' Kimiko is the "pony" to bet on now in the race for Piro's heart ...
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Rapierman
Posted: Apr 17 2005, 12:02 PM
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QUOTE (WhiteKnight @ Apr 17 2005, 07:48 AM)
I see it as Miho going along with Largo's game. Erika violently rejected his PoV and his game. Now she's not really playing at being a Zombie Queen either as obviously there are no thousand year old bottles of Scotch. She's being gracious in her role as hostess while at the same time saying, "I know what you think, let's try to reach common ground."

Given what I've suspected and WK's statement above, I find this plausible.
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flybank
Posted: Apr 17 2005, 12:22 PM
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QUOTE (Izuko @ Apr 17 2005, 08:35 AM)
Can we add this to the drinking game?

"Any time a holier-than-thou would-be killjoy tells us that we have better things to do with our time, without knowing what we're actually doing at the moment (ie if we're stuck at work in night shift, with jack shit to do, and too tired to work on our calculus but still wanting to stay awake so we don't get fired), then take a drink, finish off the bottle, have a l337 friend find his home address and go slit his throat with the broken bottle just before you jam it up his candy ass."

I'd like to see a rule like that.

I second the motion and I call for previous question. All those in favor?



On the issue of Tahoya's virginity.... I have to think she probably is, because she is self sufficient enough and emotionaly distant enough that she can't get close enough emotionally to get close phyisicly. She wants things on her terms, or not at all. She won't be someone's "slam bam thank you mam" toy, so there is no other way for her to get any.

I think Largo is the first person she can actually get emotionally close to. For all that Piro seems better grounded in the "real world." he is more deeply involved in fantasy with Kimiko than Largo is with either Erika or Miho. Largo drunk seems to have a better understanding than Piro sober.

Are they going to get it on under the bar? No way. Miho has her way of doing things, she has cast her lure, and she is waiting for him to b1t3, but she is going to be very patient before she reels him in and puts him in her tackle box.

This post has been edited by flybank on Apr 17 2005, 12:35 PM
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Vexx
Posted: Apr 17 2005, 12:27 PM
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"leet ninja" - we may all be bright but not all of us are young.. actually quite a lot of us are "old" by Internet standards smile.gif

In regard to the Miho:Largo relationship:
Consider this: you have a rival you've spent a lot of energy and time engaged with on the field of battle. You've formed a bond. Now that enemy goes down from a blindside unrelated to your game... frequently and historically such foes call "timeout" -- as Largo himself pointed out, there is no honor in that sort of victory.
Sometimes very strong relationships form over such battlelines. I'm speculating that Miho is calling such a "timeout" because she needs Largo. To some extent, the bond of their competition defines each of them.
Relationships are complex enough that even affection can form over such channels.

This post has been edited by Vexx on Apr 17 2005, 12:29 PM
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blackseven
Posted: Apr 17 2005, 12:44 PM
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QUOTE (flybank @ Apr 17 2005, 12:22 PM)
Are they going to get it on under the bar? No way. Miho has her way of doing things, she has cast her lure, and she is waiting for him to b1t3, but she is going to be very patient before she reels him in and puts him in her tackle box.

Somehow, this strikes me as even... wierder... than Miho being a vampire princess or something.

I don't mean the theory itself is wierd; in fact, I see a lot of merit in it. I just mean the outcome. I know that Miho and Largo are undoubtedly emotionally linked (see the aftermath of the Moe Moe Ball challenge), but the antagonist to friend/confidante/even more complete shift does not fit very well with Largo (as he's developed so far in the comic).

As to the original post... I think that's a bit more... explicit?... than the tenor of Megatokyo. That's some pretty graphic innuendo, if you tease out the analogy far enough.

Still a very interesting way to look at it, and the though had crossed my mind, but ultimately, I'd hope that Megatokyo "doesn't go there."
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James Nero
Posted: Apr 17 2005, 01:50 PM
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The fact that anyone takes the whole vampire princess, zombie queen thing seriously scares granted I'm not surprised just scared. Putting aside the sexual conotations that this whole thing involves I wonder if it will develop into anything serious. The big thing that binds Miho and Largo is their ideas of "the game." Is it enough to form an actual relationship though. I wonder, it is a strong thing when to people share a very similar world view.

wow its that leet ninja guy I heard about. Seeing him post is really alot like seeing a mummy rise from its tomb. You know horribly over done and pointless. ph34r.gif
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littlethunder
Posted: Apr 17 2005, 02:05 PM
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Excellent observation, Izuko. Is there a sexual subtext to the drink being offered to Largo? I think there could be, as suggested by Miho's tempting attire.

I would probably go a bit further and suggest the bottle represents Largo and the glass represents Miho. That can fit in with the usual beer-advert symbolism that employs such objects, and matches the positioning of the bottle/glass, the barstools and the characters who would sit in them (Largo and Miho).

Ultimately, I think the reality of what's being offered is merely a drink. It's simply being presented in theatrical fashion with interesting symbolism. As Kenji said, Miho is playful tonight.

LittleThunder

This post has been edited by littlethunder on Apr 17 2005, 02:26 PM
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BFP
Posted: Apr 17 2005, 02:08 PM
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QUOTE
I've no problem accepting the whole principal cast are virginal save for Erika who had a 'serious' relationship with Hitoshi.


Considering what we know about Hitoshi, Erika might well be a virgin, too.
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Izuko
Posted: Apr 17 2005, 06:07 PM
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QUOTE (James Nero @ Apr 17 2005, 02:50 PM)
The fact that anyone takes the whole vampire princess, zombie queen thing seriously scares granted I'm not surprised just scared.

If you think such things are out of the realm of possiblity in MT, obviously you forgot to read the comic.
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Rapierman
Posted: Apr 17 2005, 07:11 PM
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QUOTE (L33T N1NJ4 @ Apr 17 2005, 02:28 AM)
I'm not saying stop, I'm just saying think about this guys, you're all bright young individuals, does this comic really need any more analysis than it already has?

I probably should let you in on a couple of things:

1. I'm probably old enough to be your father (unless you're in your late 30s to early 40s...or perhaps past that point), so applying the word "young" to me would be an error in judgement.

2. Part of the process of reading and digesting literature is to speculate, to make a critical analysis and to engage in reasoning in an attempt to predict a future event in the story. I don't exactly know what they taught you, but that's what they taught me in school lo those many years ago.

So, perhaps you should allow us to continue with our speculation. At least, for me, that's how I enjoy the story.
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stsparky
Posted: Apr 17 2005, 07:38 PM
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QUOTE (flybank @ Apr 17 2005, 10:22 AM)
I second the motion and I call for previous question. All those in favor?

Aye, but the InterNet equivalent. I dislike bullies of all stripes.
====
Erika is likely experienced I'm guessing. Kimiko was too clingy and the guys ran off ...

Shall we handicap our bets folks? - Sparky

PS Amused that I'm a youngster in someone's eyes ...
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Ray Kremer
Posted: Apr 17 2005, 10:29 PM
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QUOTE (Izuko @ Apr 17 2005, 03:35 AM)
Can we add this to the drinking game?

"Any time a holier-than-thou would-be killjoy tells us that we have better things to do with our time, without knowing what we're actually doing at the moment (ie if we're stuck at work in night shift, with jack shit to do, and too tired to work on our calculus but still wanting to stay awake so we don't get fired), then take a drink, finish off the bottle, have a l337 friend find his home address and go slit his throat with the broken bottle just before you jam it up his candy ass."

I'd like to see a rule like that.

Oooohhhhhhh, sure, why not. I hope you don't mind if I reword that though. smile.gif

I'll make the site update later tonight.
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Izuko
Posted: Apr 17 2005, 10:43 PM
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QUOTE (Ray Kremer @ Apr 17 2005, 11:29 PM)
QUOTE
Can we add this to the drinking game?

"Any time a holier-than-thou would-be killjoy tells us that we have better things to do with our time, without knowing what we're actually doing at the moment (ie if we're stuck at work in night shift, with jack shit to do, and too tired to work on our calculus but still wanting to stay awake so we don't get fired), then take a drink, finish off the bottle, have a l337 friend find his home address and go slit his throat with the broken bottle just before you jam it up his candy ass."

I'd like to see a rule like that.

Oooohhhhhhh, sure, why not. I hope you don't mind if I reword that though. smile.gif

I'll make the site update later tonight.

Dunno, I kind of specifically chose those words for meaning and tone. I guess, if you absolutely must change them...

But it still makes Izzy-kun cry. ;_;
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Trojan
Posted: Apr 17 2005, 11:04 PM
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Given Miho's past mix of teasing and suggesting, I'd argue that she's making the suggestion in a teasing way. She knows Largo will notice the significance of her implied "purity" in terms of her wanting him to talk to her, but the sexual suggestion is also there. The first part is simply playful wording, while the second part is a tease. Now, whether or not Largo picks up on that is another matter...tongue.gif
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emurphy
Posted: Apr 18 2005, 06:31 PM
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I'm surprised no one has pointed this out yet: "old and unopened" is spoken in Evil Runes. At last count, Largo still doesn't (and wouldn't want to) understand them.
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