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Megatokyo Forums > Story Discussions > Haiku: [0746] Air


Posted by: AncestralHamster Aug 10 2005, 09:08 AM
A chill in the air.
A late frost mars new spring growth.
Yet, hints of a thaw ...

Posted by: Haldane Aug 10 2005, 10:45 AM
Not wanting to be rude, but probably unable to avoid it... couldn't this have gone into the comments thread with the rest of the fanfic and prose?

Too many threads are being started without a theme that promotes conversation or that simply should have been included into a thread that already exists.

Posted by: CountAlpicola Aug 10 2005, 11:25 AM
[!Haiku]
QUOTE (Haldane)
ouldn't this have gone into the comments thread with the rest of the fanfic and prose?
These Haiku threads are a part of SD tradition. A tradition that, unfortunately, has somewhat fallen by the wayside in recent months.

There was once a time when every strip would be met with an MDT and a Haiku thread. Unlike the discussion threads, the Haiku are not necessarily meant to be discussed. The conversation, instead, is talking about what just happened using the symbolism and structure of haiku.

I, for one, applaud AncestralHamster and others for trying to bring this once great tradition back.
[/!Haiku]

A new dawn rises...
Bitterness, she holds below;
and a sweet reward.

Posted by: Rapierman Aug 10 2005, 01:18 PM
Opposites present.
One not ready to meet here.
The other, concerned.

Posted by: NekuraEtowaru Aug 10 2005, 01:50 PM
How much pain can one
look hold? He dismisses her,
his glance moving on.

Posted by: Mae Aug 10 2005, 04:32 PM
I think the poetry only threads are very cool and fun besides. And haiku is a great form for making short and sweet comments that sum up your impressions of something (well, ideally). I'll add my own attempt

Not one word spoken
Eyes meet on a busy street
But so much is said

Posted by: Phydeaux Aug 10 2005, 07:23 PM
affection's object
falls down off the pedestal
she is human, too


[!haiku] From the point of view of a (second) fanboy, watching the scene from someplace nearby. [/!haiku]

Posted by: AncestralHamster Aug 10 2005, 08:33 PM
Your eyes say one thing,
But your deeds contradict it.
Here is my reply.


[!haiku]
QUOTE (Haldane @ Aug 10 2005, 04:45 PM)
Not wanting to be rude, but probably unable to avoid it... couldn't this have gone into the comments thread with the rest of the fanfic and prose?

Too many threads are being started without a theme that promotes conversation or that simply should have been included into a thread that already exists.

*Blink*

I know you're a recent member, but since you've joined the forum we've had six strip-specific haiku threads, so I thought you'd be familar with the custom by now.

In any case, the haiku thread has been a regular feature of this forum since strip [94] - osana najimi {2001-06-04} so this is hardly something new or without precedent. Admittedly, as CountAlpicola notes, the haiku thread has seen better days, but there's no reason it can't regain its former life, especially since we now have new participants from the metarenga.

A slightly dated guide to SD forum http://www.filespace.org.nyud.net:8090/nom_de_plume/mtsdintro.html. {Originally written for this http://forums.megatokyo.com/index.php?showtopic=1246067&st=0&#entry1246067.}

[/!haiku]

Posted by: NekuraEtowaru Aug 10 2005, 10:35 PM
Offering peace, she
is again wounded. Is there
anything to salvage?

Posted by: Kasuken_Sazuka Aug 10 2005, 10:37 PM
A peaceful feeling,
not quite awake but sleeping
Oh yeah i'm dreaming

Posted by: Haldane Aug 11 2005, 11:02 AM
QUOTE (AncestralHamster @ Aug 10 2005, 08:33 PM)
I know you're a recent member, but since you've joined the forum we've had six strip-specific haiku threads, so I thought you'd be familar with the custom by now.

In any case, the haiku thread has been a regular feature of this forum since strip [94] - osana najimi {2001-06-04} so this is hardly something new or without precedent.

A slightly dated guide to SD forum http://www.filespace.org.nyud.net:8090/nom_de_plume/mtsdintro.html. {Originally written for this http://forums.megatokyo.com/index.php?showtopic=1246067&st=0&#entry1246067.}

[EXPLAIN] You've been here a while and know what you are doing. I brought this up because there have been so many useless threads this summer and yours looked like one of those, but I spoke too soon before others pitched in. This thread is obviously getting participation and I apologize.

I usually check fanart, ignore haiku and filks, and actively avoid fanfic, so the purpose of the haiku thread hadn't sunk in. Your guidelines link is appreciated.
[/EXPLAIN]

He leaves in his pain.
Eyes meet... offerings noted.
She waits in her pain.

Posted by: NekuraEtowaru Aug 11 2005, 11:17 AM
The ache palpable
She waits for her redemption
but it doesn't come

Posted by: snark Aug 11 2005, 05:46 PM
I did not expect
That this loss of warmth would have
Brought with it a chill

[!haiku]Personally, I fall back on the "real life is real busy" excuse. The sharp tang in my nose that signals winter's... er... haiku's approach is enough to stir me from isolation, occasionally.[/!haiku]

[irish haiku]
Having said to him "You're not so swish!"
And then slapping him with a cold fish;
"I don't want you around!"
But with deepening frown,
Comes his only reply; "As you wish."
[/irish haiku]

Posted by: AncestralHamster Aug 11 2005, 10:07 PM
QUOTE (NekuraEtowaru)
How much pain can one
look hold? He dismisses her,
his glance moving on.

Be careful what you ask for:
You may find the taste bitter.


[!haiku]
QUOTE (Haldane @ Aug 11 2005, 05:02 PM)
You've been here a while and know what you are doing.  I brought this up because there have been so many useless threads this summer and yours looked like one of those, but I spoke too soon before others pitched in.  This thread is obviously getting participation and I apologize.

No need to apologize, no offense was taken. If it wasn't clear in my previous post, I was surprised, not insulted.

QUOTE
I usually check fanart, ignore haiku and filks, and actively avoid fanfic, so the purpose of the haiku thread hadn't sunk in.  Your guidelines link is appreciated.

You're welcome.

[/!haiku]

Posted by: NekuraEtowaru Aug 11 2005, 10:25 PM
QUOTE (AncestralHamster @ Aug 11 2005, 09:07 PM)
QUOTE (NekuraEtowaru)

How much pain can one
look hold? He dismisses her,
his glance moving on.


Be careful what you ask for:
You may find the taste bitter.


[!haiku]

w00t! I been renga'ed!

[/!haiku]

False love of fanboys
Is wholly inadequate
To fulfill my needs

Posted by: Phydeaux Aug 11 2005, 11:02 PM
The way to his heart,
by way of lower organs,
isn't. Breakfast? Tossed.

Posted by: NekuraEtowaru Aug 11 2005, 11:22 PM
A rush of blood to
the head, the pain is nothing
compared to love lost

Posted by: Phydeaux Aug 11 2005, 11:23 PM
oh, backwards leg girl
only the giant man knows
which way thou dost walk

Posted by: kaiu Aug 13 2005, 02:00 AM
[haiku]
winter souls smolder,
angry, bastard offspring of
misplaced affections

[/haiku]

Note* this is my first haiku. Did I muck anything up?

Posted by: Phydeaux Aug 13 2005, 02:05 AM
QUOTE (kaiu @ Aug 13 2005, 03:00 AM)
Note* this is my first haiku. Did I muck anything up?

[!haiku] I think you most certainly did not. In fact, you got quite a few things right. Excellent job.

For future reference, though, tags are not needed around haiku, only around things that aren't haiku, like this. [/!haiku]

Posted by: AncestralHamster Aug 13 2005, 02:08 AM
QUOTE (kaiu @ Aug 13 2005, 08:00 AM)
[haiku]
winter  souls smolder,
angry, bastard offspring of
misplaced affections

[/haiku]

Note* this is my first haiku. Did I muck anything up?

Nothing to forgive.
All participants welcome!
Come and write haiku!

[!haiku]

Welcome! Don't worry, you're doing fine.

[/!haiku]

Posted by: kaiu Aug 13 2005, 02:08 AM
QUOTE (Phydeaux @ Aug 13 2005, 02:05 AM)
In fact, you got quite a few things right.

Thank you! What *didn't* I get right? I'd like to know so I can work on it. ph34r.gif

About the tags: I actually did because I'm a tag lover. smile.gif


Posted by: AncestralHamster Aug 13 2005, 02:14 AM
[!haiku]

It's a minor nitpick, but your second line is not a complete thought, but is completed in the last line. Ideally, each line comprises a complete thought or image. However, it doesn't always work out that way in practice.

[/!haiku]

Posted by: Phydeaux Aug 13 2005, 02:29 AM
QUOTE (kaiu @ Aug 13 2005, 03:08 AM)
Thank you! What *didn't* I get right? I'd like to know so I can work on it.  :ph34r:

About the tags: I actually did because I'm a tag lover. :)

[!haiku] In my opinion, just the tag thing. But now you're nearing violation of the unwritten "no lengthy conversation in the haiku thread" rule, so if you want to discuss this further, feel free to bring it to PM.

Unless AH thinks this is okay.. *defers to AH's superior knowledge of this matter* [/!haiku]

QUOTE (AncestralHamster @ Aug 13 2005, 03:14 AM)
Ideally, each line comprises a complete thought or image.

[!haiku] Really? If I ever knew this, then I must have forgotten it, because I haven't been striving for that at all. In between all the other stylistic things I've been trying to make sure to squeeze into 17 syllalbes, I managed to leave that out. :o\ Well, this makes things significantly harder. >_<

Perhaps I should loosen up. It seems the rules succeed only in causing all haiku to be carbon copies of each other, as far as tone and feel goes. I see almost no one else seems to do that, not even you, most of the time, so maybe I'm making a mistake trying to be as close to "real haiku" as I can possibly get.

*goes and violates the "no lengthy conversation" rule...* [/!haiku]

Posted by: kaiu Aug 13 2005, 02:29 AM
QUOTE (AncestralHamster @ Aug 13 2005, 02:14 AM)
It's a minor nitpick, but your second line is not a complete thought, but is completed in the last line.  Ideally, each line comprises a complete thought or image.  However, it doesn't always work out that way in practice.


Then, for example, are each of these lines complete? Or is my line three here considered dependent on line 2? I'm having trouble getting my mind working properly.

Hearts beat shallow, still,
Winter's breath kills two sparrows,
yet strangers still yearn


EDIT: My apologies. I did not realize discussion was discouraged. I will cease immediately. smile.gif

Posted by: Phydeaux Aug 13 2005, 02:38 AM
QUOTE (kaiu @ Aug 13 2005, 03:29 AM)
EDIT: My apologies. I did not realize discussion was discouraged. I will cease immediately. smile.gif

[!haiku] I THINK it is, but I can't remember exactly; it's been a LONG time. I'm waiting for AH's word on the matter.

However, this might be a good opportunity to go over this stuff. This haiku thread was pretty much finished when you posted in it anyway, by which, I mean that I think everyone who had any desire to post in it already had and was through playing in it.

So this current conversation seems okay, but I still want that "official" word. [/!haiku]

Posted by: AncestralHamster Aug 13 2005, 03:14 AM
QUOTE (kaiu @ Aug 13 2005, 08:29 AM)
Then, for example, are each of these lines complete? Or is my line three here considered dependent on line 2? I'm having trouble getting my mind working properly.

Hearts beat shallow, still,
Winter's breath kills two sparrows,
yet strangers still yearn


EDIT: My apologies. I did not realize discussion was discouraged. I will cease immediately. smile.gif

[!haiku]

Oh, that's a good rewrite.

Those lines are complete. You've strong imagery in line 2, "Winter's breath kills two sparrows," and it works very well both metaphorically and literally. Line 3 is connected to line 2, but independent of it.

For instance, you could punctuate it this way and it still works.

Hearts beat shallow, still.
Winter's breath kills two sparrows.
Yet strangers still yearn
.

Regarding lengthy conversations, it depends on the nature of the conversation. Talking about writing verse is fine, discussing/analyzing the comic is for the MDT.

QUOTE (Phydeaux)
[!haiku] Really? If I ever knew this, then I must have forgotten it, because I haven't been striving for that at all. In between all the other stylistic things I've been trying to make sure to squeeze into 17 syllables, I managed to leave that out. ohmy.gif\ Well, this makes things significantly harder. >_<
biggrin.gif

I don't recall it being discussed here (unless it was before my time), but it is one of the Japanese rules of haiku.

QUOTE
Perhaps I should loosen up. It seems the rules succeed only in causing all haiku to be carbon copies of each other, as far as tone and feel goes. I see almost no one else seems to do that, not even you, most of the time, so maybe I'm making a mistake trying to be as close to "real haiku" as I can possibly get.
I know, I know, which is why I'm not insisting on it. Stylistically speaking, it does look and work better if you can pull it off. The trouble is, we're working under a few handicaps.

First, we're trying to fit English syntax and vocabulary into a poetic form crafted for another language, thus it is not a natural fit.

Secondly, we have no control over the subject matter. It's much easier to adhere to the strictures of haiku when one chooses the subject matter. Here we must take what Fred gives us, and focus on the aspect that most interests us.

Lastly, we're also usually violating many other rules of haiku. We're really writing senryu, which shares the 17 on and three lines of 5-7-5 of haiku, but without the many rules that structure (or constrict, depending on your POV) the writing of haiku. Under the circumstances, I feel one must try to write to a higher standard, but remain flexible.

[/!haiku]

Posted by: |\/|3647|20& Aug 13 2005, 05:49 AM
QUOTE (Phydeaux)
oh, backwards leg girl
only the giant man knows
which way thou dost walk


Phy's above haiku
I thought was much humorous.
She's also a girl.

Posted by: kaiu Aug 13 2005, 10:19 AM
QUOTE (AncestralHamster @ Aug 13 2005, 03:14 AM)
The trouble is, we're working under a few handicaps.
First, we're trying to fit English syntax and vocabulary into a poetic form crafted for another language, thus it is not a natural fit.

Lastly, we're also usually violating many other rules of haiku. We're really writing senryu, which shares the 17 on and three lines of 5-7-5 of haiku, but without the many rules that structure (or constrict, depending on your POV) the writing of haiku. Under the circumstances, I feel one must try to write to a higher standard, but remain flexible.

[!haiku]Thank you for your imput! I dinked around on the net a tad before trying my hand at it, but are there any websites in particular you would suggest for getting a deeper understanding of haiku (and Japanese poety in general)? I think this might turn into a hobby for me! cool.gif [/!haiku]

Posted by: AncestralHamster Aug 13 2005, 10:47 AM
QUOTE (kaiu @ Aug 13 2005, 04:19 PM)
[!haiku]Thank you for your imput! I dinked around on the net a tad before trying my hand at it, but are there any websites in particular you would suggest for getting a deeper understanding of haiku (and Japanese poety in general)? I think this might turn into a hobby for me!  cool.gif [/!haiku]

[!haiku]
You're welcome.

The most relevant one is the http://www.ahapoetry.com/.

My http://www.filespace.org.nyud.net:8090/nom_de_plume/mtsdintro.html is a quick guide to forum traditions. The second section deals with fanworks and provides links. (The Japanese verse links all go to the AHA, so you may want to go there directly.)

Finally, the http://rgmt.pcplayground.com/ has links to haiku threads on the forums. If a comic has an associated haiku thread, the link will be found next to the link to the comic, otherwise, just follow the "haiku" link on the first page. This will let you see what has been done before.

We'll be starting the Chapter 6 Metarenga Sunday. Renga is the form from which haiku arose, and is an exercise in linked verse. As with the haiku threads, it is open to all interested parties, and you're welcome to join if you like. The Ping Metarenga is either on the bottom of the front page or on the next page now if you'd like to see how a renga develops. Alternately, click my sig banner to go to the Renga-kas website.

It's good to see new contributors, and you've made a promising start. I hope you will be a frequent participant in the verse threads in the future.
[/!haiku]

Posted by: Rapierman Aug 13 2005, 01:44 PM
When concentrating
on all the rules, one misses
the beauty of it.

I tend to find that my thoughts
don't fit any framework, see?

When you find that your
thoughts are constricted by the
rules, you must bend them;

because freedom of thought is
not subject to any rule.

[!haiku]
...and, hopefully, that explains why I do what I do (that and the fact that I don't know ALL the rules).
[/!haiku]

Posted by: NekuraEtowaru Aug 13 2005, 05:10 PM
Rules are for sissies
Some chaos isn't all bad
Dare to be diff'rent!

[!haiku] Where I usually louse up are references to nature. 5-7-5 I can do in my sleep, but at least for the MT haikus, a tie-in to nature doesn't come so easily...looking around at others work though, I think maybe I am just not looking hard enough[/!haiku]

Posted by: AncestralHamster Aug 15 2005, 12:03 AM
QUOTE (NekuraEtowaru @ Aug 13 2005, 11:10 PM)
Rules are for sissies
Some chaos isn't all bad
Dare to be diff'rent!

QUOTE (Rapierman)
When concentrating
on all the rules, one misses
the beauty of it.

I tend to find that my thoughts
don't fit any framework, see?

When you find that your
thoughts are constricted by the
rules, you must bend them;

because freedom of thought is
not subject to any rule.

Rules provide structure.
Form given to shapeless thoughts.
Frame of reference.

[!haiku]
Too much freedom can be as bad as too little, and the wretched stream of consciousness free verse "poems" that I've heard have given rise to that view. One has to have some rules to discipline one's thoughts and make them comprensible to others.

QUOTE (NekuraEtowaru)
[!haiku] Where I usually louse up are references to nature.  5-7-5 I can do in my sleep, but at least for the MT haikus, a tie-in to nature doesn't come so easily...looking around at others work though, I think maybe I am just not looking hard enough[/!haiku]

*Nod* The comics do not always lend themselves to nature imagery. However, one can create effective, unique imagery without it.

http://forums.megatokyo.com/index.php?act=Print&client=printer&f=8&t=1457111

In the woman's hands
A gently applied tissue
Erases bookcase

- Temenus -

It's an unique take on Kimiko's cleaning the cut on Piro's forehead, and I think Temenus expressed it brilliantly and beautifully. So one can compose effective haiku without nature references. (Though that haiku of Temenus' is setting the bar high... )

[/!haiku]

Posted by: Rapierman Aug 15 2005, 12:37 AM
QUOTE (AncestralHamster @ Aug 15 2005, 01:03 AM)
Rules provide structure.
Form given to shapeless thoughts.
Frame of reference.

This is true, indeed.
but form without a substance
is like body, no soul.

Eventually, it's dead
and all fall into abyss.

QUOTE (AncestralHamster)
[!haiku]
Too much freedom can be as bad as too little, and the wretched stream of consciousness free verse "poems" that I've heard have given rise to that view. One has to have some rules to discipline one's thoughts and make them comprensible to others.
[/!haiku]


[!haiku]

True. My problem is when it feels like I keep running into a brick wall created by the rules, and then the frustration level goes up. Eventually, it becomes a situation where one ends up lashing out (which gives rise to those things that seem to "bend" or "break" the rules).

[/!haiku]

Posted by: AncestralHamster Aug 15 2005, 01:14 AM
QUOTE (Rapierman @ Aug 15 2005, 06:37 AM)
This is true, indeed.
but form without a substance
is like body, no soul.

Eventually, it's dead
and all fall into abyss.

Part of the challenge:
Swimming in the rules' current,
Rising, not drowning.

[!haiku]
QUOTE (Rapierman)
True.  My problem is when it feels like I keep running into a brick wall created by the rules, and then the frustration level goes up.  Eventually, it becomes a situation where one ends up lashing out (which gives rise to those things that seem to "bend" or "break" the rules).
Well, the only compositional rule that has been traditionally adhered to in the haiku thread is that of 5-7-5. Since most people do not know of the other rules of haiku, they cannot be expected to follow them. Anything else is a matter of personal choice. So you determine what rules you choose to follow when composing. That should give you sufficient flexibility.

[/!haiku]

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